Morningland Dairy raided and another family business destroyed 01/25/13

[Skull Pilot]

Let me ask you people something.

First let me say that I do not drink milk, ever.

For thousands of years people drank milk directly from their own cows or goats with no refrigeration or pasteurization. Now did all of those people get sick?

Obviously not.

Evidence for this claim no one got sick, please.

Just amazing..really.

Not so amazing since I never claimed no one ever got sick from drinking raw milk did I?

 

[g5000]

Let me ask you people something.

First let me say that I do not drink milk, ever.

For thousands of years people drank milk directly from their own cows or goats with no refrigeration or pasteurization. Now did all of those people get sick?

Obviously not.

Evidence for this claim no one got sick, please.

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Psst. The dairy industry paid for the legislation to make raw milk sales illegal. RW dolts....

Arguing over unpasteurised milk: Raw deal | The Economist
Raw Milk Bans are About Protecting Big Dairy
Guest column: Dairy lobby drives raw milk issue : Baraboo News Republic

Did the dairy industry plant the staph and listeria in the raw milk, too?

And pssssst, raw milk sales are not illegal, rube.

Here's a breakdown which states allow raw milk sales, which don't, and other options:

 

[Skull Pilot]

Evidence for this claim no one got sick, please.

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

I think they should be allowed to drink milk from their own animals. To sell it without some kind of standard is not right however.

If people buy raw milk directly from a farm they know what they are getting and should be able to buy it.

I can understand not wanting it sold via third parties because it's impossible to tell if it was handled and kept properly.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Evidence for this claim no one got sick, please.

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking.

And yet they knew about trichinosis?

 

[g5000]

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

I think they should be allowed to drink milk from their own animals. To sell it without some kind of standard is not right however.

If people buy raw milk directly from a farm they know what they are getting and should be able to buy it.

I can understand not wanting it sold via third parties because it's impossible to tell if it was handled and kept properly.

People who buy milk from a farm are not magically gifted with disease detecting abilities. The food they buy needs to be inspected by someone who does have the ability to detect diseases.

This attitude of "let's wait until someone dies before we stop using this stuff, no one has died yet" is plain stupid.

The government detected diseases in Morningland Dairy's food. Period.

 

[konradv]

Hey if people want to drink raw milk then let them as long as they are making an informed decision it's nobody's business.

And when they feed it to their babies who are unable to consent?

Last time I checked, parents were responsible for their children. Are you responsible for all the children now? Do you think people who choose to drink raw milk are too stupid to feed their children properly?

It's not a matter of stupidity, but knowledge. If you didn't milk the cow yourself, how would you know if it's good or not until it's too late?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Evidence for this claim no one got sick, please.

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

It's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.



And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

 

[g5000]

And when they feed it to their babies who are unable to consent?

Last time I checked, parents were responsible for their children. Are you responsible for all the children now? Do you think people who choose to drink raw milk are too stupid to feed their children properly?

It's not a matter of stupidity, but knowledge. If you didn't milk the cow yourself, how would you know if it's good or not until it's too late?

Exactly.

"Oh, but they are such nice people! And no one has ever died...yet! What's a few diseases between friends? My babies love this stuff!"

 

[gallantwarrior]

Did they plant the staph and listeria in the milk, too?
And pssssst, raw milk sales are not illegal, rube.

Yes, they are. You can either get your own cow, buy a share of a cow and get it that way, or buy it as "pet food". Otherwise, it is illegal to sell to another human being for consumption. And if there was listeria present, it could be due to many things. Raw milk from pastured cows is much safer than the antibiotic filled, growth hormone laden homogenized crap you buy at the grocery store. I can guarantee you that. Everyone drank raw milk before pasteuerization.

Not true, it varies from state-to-state. CA actually permits retail sales of raw milk, as do: WA, ID, AZ, NM, MA, NH, CT, PA, and SC. States that do not allow no legal sales of raw milk: MT, NV, WI, IA, WV, MD, DL, VA, NJ. Other states have different accommodations, including: farm sale legal, herd share legal, legal as pet food, or no firm determination.
You are quite correct about milk produced by grass-fed, naturally pastured cows being more healthy and safer than the mass-produced swill commonly sold to the public.

 

[Staidhup]

The central issue is this, if the product was tested, proved beyond a doubt that it was contaminated, why were they not permitted to conduct a recall? Did the farm have a valid HACCP plan in place and were proper validation and verification procedures in place and documented? Was the dairy in compliance, inspected, and operating within State Department of Agriculture Standards? If so, a recall, further inspection, and identification of the sources of contamination is required. If in fact rights were violated there is grounds to file legal proceeding to recover damages. This video was not through enough to reach these conclusions.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I think they should be allowed to drink milk from their own animals. To sell it without some kind of standard is not right however.

If people buy raw milk directly from a farm they know what they are getting and should be able to buy it.

I can understand not wanting it sold via third parties because it's impossible to tell if it was handled and kept properly.

People who buy milk from a farm are not magically gifted with disease detecting abilities. The food they buy needs to be inspected by someone who does have the ability to detect diseases.

This attitude of "let's wait until someone dies before we stop using this stuff, no one has died yet" is plain stupid.

The government detected diseases in Morningland Dairy's food. Period.

That was a different event was it not?

And it's not just this one dairy that has been stormed by armed government agents.

If people are making an informed decision and know the risks it's none of your business what they consume.

It's people like you that are the reason It's almost impossible to get a rare burger or a soft boiled egg at a restaurant.

 

[Ravi]

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

It's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.



And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

There are all kinds of articles about milk born diseases out there. Here is an easy one: scroll down to question #4 on the left.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2282302/?page=1

 

[gallantwarrior]

Did they plant the staph and listeria in the milk, too?

And pssssst, raw milk sales are not illegal, rube.Yes, they are. You can either get your own cow, buy a share of a cow and get it that way, or buy it as "pet food". Otherwise, it is illegal to sell to another human being for consumption.

Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Your third link was from Wisconsin. In Wisconsin you can buy raw milk directly from a dairy farmer. Totally legal.

And if there was listeria present, it could be due to many things. Raw milk from pastured cows is much safer than the antibiotic filled, growth hormone laden homogenized crap you buy at the grocery store. I can guarantee you that. Everyone drank raw milk before pasteuerization.

Antibiotics and growth hormones are not added during the homogenization process, idiot.

And a lot of people died from raw milk before pasteurization. That's why pasteurization was invented, dumbass!! Jesus!

Wrong, WI forbids all sales of raw milk and raw milk products. The dairy industry is strong in WI.

http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm

 

[konradv]

I never said no one got sick did I?

I asked if all those people got sick, The answer is no.

Then I posited that even if some got sick not enough people got sick to stop others from drinking milk directly from their own cows and goats. Now history shows us that certain food restrictions were health related. For example the ancient prohibition against eating pork was no doubt because of widespread trichinosis. Now if raw milk was such a danger would there not have been restrictions placed upon it as well?

It's a simple deduction to make as people are still drinking milk.

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

It's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.

And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

They didn't all get sick, but they either milked the cow themselves or got it from the guy next door and could make an informed decision. These days the number of people that can claim that level of knowledge is very small. Also, in the past very little milk was consumed as milk, usually being turned into more stable products, like cheese, butter and yogurt.

 

[Skull Pilot]

its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: Milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

it's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.



And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

there are all kinds of articles about milk born diseases out there. Here is an easy one: Scroll down to question #4 on the left.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2282302/?page=1

1943?

 

[gallantwarrior]

And when they feed it to their babies who are unable to consent?

Last time I checked, parents were responsible for their children. Are you responsible for all the children now? Do you think people who choose to drink raw milk are too stupid to feed their children properly?

Yes, I do think they are too stupid to feed their children properly. I know a lot of parents who are too stupid to immunize their children, and who give their children homeopathic medications. And the children pay the price for their parents' stupidity. And there are children whose parents are in prison now because those children died as the result of being treated with faith healing in lieu of being taken to a doctor. I guess they should have been let go in your world.

You really have to ask these questions? Are you that insulated from the real world?

That is their choice. Hell, why don't we just take the children away from the parents at birth. We could put them in government-run camps and make them models of health and citizenship. Would that work for you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Its a fallacious conclusion with no supporting evidence.

Humans had two choices of hydration: milk and water. And they did not know bacteria even existed. They did not have the knowledge to attribute sickness and disease to the milk they were drinking. Sanitation was virtually non-existent.

It's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.

And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

They didn't all get sick, but they either milked the cow themselves or got it from the guy next door and could make an informed decision. These days the number of people that can claim that level of knowledge is very small. Also, in the past very little milk was consumed as milk, usually being turned into more stable products, like cheese, butter and yogurt.

And all I have been saying is that if someone wants to go to a farm and buy raw milk they should be able to.
I don't have a problem with restricting third party sales because as I said it's impossible to guarantee the handling of the product.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Last time I checked, parents were responsible for their children. Are you responsible for all the children now? Do you think people who choose to drink raw milk are too stupid to feed their children properly?

Yes, I do think they are too stupid to feed their children properly. I know a lot of parents who are too stupid to immunize their children, and who give their children homeopathic medications. And there are children who have died as the result of faith healing in lieu of being taken to a doctor.

You really have to ask that question?

How many have died due to the ministrations of doctors and hospitals?

Think we should send the FDA to put them out of business, too?

My parents were raised on raw milk, as were all of their generation. Somehow, they managed to live through it.

I expect their parents would've happily shot anyone with the temerity to suggest they were too stupid to raise thier children.

I think statists are too stupid to vote, but I'm not going to send anyone around to arrest them for it.

Until their father's job took them away, my granddaughters thrived on raw milk. They would tie napkins around their necks and stand on either side of me as I milked, begging for another squirt of fresh milk. They drank raw milk, ate raw milk cheese and yogurt, etc. Not only have they not yet died, they are very, very healthy, happy young ladies.

 

[Ravi]

it's a deduction.

We don't have conclusive supporting evidence for a lot of shit in the historical record.



And do you deny that people drank raw milk from their own animals for thousands of years? And if not are you saying that they all got sick? If you are then you should provide evidence should you not.

there are all kinds of articles about milk born diseases out there. Here is an easy one: Scroll down to question #4 on the left.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2282302/?page=1

1943?

Yeah, 1943. Evidence that raw milk was a problem.