More than 20 dead after shooting at Sutherland Springs church

[Lucy Hamilton]

They just said he had a Ruger assault rifle.

If a person puts that they care about social issues they are ANTIFA?

Good lord stop the ******* madness! You can't care about people without being ANTIFA?????

Just another fruit cake...as if ANTIFA would target a church. Why is it you all insist that every demon be YOUR personal demon?

My question for the day..a dishonorable discharge carries the same penalties as a felony..that includes the loss of gun rights. So..where did he get his weapon? Was LE aware that he was armed?
This is not a 2nd amendment issue..so calm the f down. This is a convicted criminal with an illegal weapon.

------------------------------------------- why wouldn't 'antifa' target a Church full of Conservative Baptist white people , possible / probable Trump supporters , 'antifa' declared war on Trump and Pense and Americans just yesterday on Nov. 4th EEFleegle ??

---------------------------------------------- but good old 'Evil eyeFleegle' just ignore the question don't EEFleegle ??

Well..as I have a life..not always at the computer.
Hmm..having to parse out your awkward construction..I think you are alluding to some half-baked theory, making the rounds..as to a 'war against whites'?

Well, other than I think the whole idea is bat-shit crazy--and that anyone who seriously ascribes to it..should have THEIR weapons taken away...I cannot think of a reason.

I cannot really get in the head of people who think like that...it is foreign to me. I believe it to be pure-bred stupidity..and I can only hope that people who think like that don't breed..and screw up my gene pool. If I fail to respond to posts such as yours..it's just that I realize that your reality and mine are so far apart..that trying to bridge the gap is fruitless.

Go ahead..do continue without me....

------------------------------------------------------------ this is what i refer to EEF . Anyway , maybe this church shooting was planned by' antifa' or inspired by 'antifa' warning of War on the Trump - Pense administration . No matter , i know you now so respond or don't respond and its cool EEFleegle . --- Antifa apocalypse? Anarchist group's plan to overthrow Trump 'regime' starts Saturday ---

From his Facebook page, now taken down but there are people out there who are working to retrieve what they can.

Devin P. Kelley was a committed Athiest and belonged to several Athiest organisations:

Picture of Devin P. Kelley when he still had his beard.

He seems to have shaved his beard off sometime around and/or on October 31:

^^^^

 

[Ame®icano]

Acording to Colorado Voter ID, shooter was UAF (Antifa).

Voter detail

 

[Lewdog]

You are wasting your breath.

No matter what you say, it will be interpreted as worst case scenario. You could say you want to limit a person to owning only 1,000 guns unless they are a gun dealer, and people on this forum will yell at you saying they need 1,001 guns to defend their home against someone trying to TP their house.

And if you have 1001 guns, and don't use them to hurt anyone or to commit any crime...what is the ******* problem...considering this guy couldn't legally own a gun because of his Dishonorable discharge, yet he still got one..dittos all the terrorists and criminals in Europe where fully automatic rifles, not AR-15s, are completely illegal...

We don't know 100% for a fact that was how he was discharged. And if he did own it illegally, does that mean we should make it easier for people to illegally obtain guns and quit trying to fix the problem?

No....it is already illegal for a felon to own a gun.....do you want a new law that says that it is Really Really Really illegal for a felon to own a gun...

Do you think that will work better?

No, I want to make it more difficult for a person to illegally own a gun, not easier.

That means not giving up...

Same here...that is why I want anyone who uses a gun for an actual crime to go to jail for 30 years....and any violent felon caught with a gun needs to go away for 30 years....

Right now...people like you let these repeat....repeat, violent gun offenders back on the street......

Do you understand that the U.S. has the largest prison population in the world? Larger than even China?

You think putting putting people in jail for 30 years is going to solve the issue and make things better?

 

[Coyote]

This thread is unreal. If the guy was Black it would mean he is Black Lives Matter. If he was brown skinned he would be Muslim doing it for ISIS. Now if he is white he is an ANTIFA.

It's unheard of that the guy could just be a whacko gun nutjob who lost his marbles.

Yes.

Exactly.

And if he were Muslim it would be because of that - not because he was a homicidal whacko. Religion, like guns - is a tool to justify violence.

And...this loon was enamored with his guns.

 

[Coyote]

Acording to Colorado Voter ID, shooter was UAF (Antifa).

Voter detail

That kind of stuff is not publically available. Try fake news.

 

[thetor]

Car deaths....35,000 are relevant...because more people die from those every single year than all mass public shootings combined........especially by rifles....

And we know a rental truck actually did murder 89 people and injured over 450.....more than any mass public shooting in this country, which is why you want to stop talking about it.

I could say that if there were tighter laws that banned ownership of these rifles, NO ONE would have been killed

And you would be stupid for saying that, since the Virginia tech shooter used pistols and murdered 32 people...

I'll tell you this again, and if it doesn't sink in this time, then I'm done arguing with you because you refuse to use common sense... car deaths ARE NOT relevant to gun violence. Not even close to being relevant... at all. As proof, give me a list of times mass amounts of people were murdered by a car inside a church. I'm just using your reasoning here...

Car deaths are completely ******* relevant......more people are killed accidentally with cars....35,000 people every year, the leading cause of death for children........as opposed to mass shooters with guns...

In fact, knives are used to murder over 1,500 people every single year...mass shooters don't even come close...yet you want to use the rarest of these deaths to ban guns for the owners of 600 million guns...

That is why they are relevant....

And then there's the morality of it. The idea of restricting my ability to defend myself and my family against thugs and crazies that couldn't give two shits about rules and laws is highly immoral.

A good guy with a gun prevented further massacre today. That only happens in a free society. The only way to prevent bad people from doing bad things is a tyrannous society. North Korean doesn't have mass murders. I'll take freedom ever time.

There are LOTS of other countries other than North Korea with lower gun violence crimes.

What the hell difference does it make if the murder rate is via a firearm or a other means? Dead is dead.

In that regard, there are well over 100 countries with higher murder rates than the US, and all of them have de facto bans on civilian firearm ownership. Hmm...

MORE IMPORTANTLY, you completely overlook the IMMORALITY of seeking to restrict my ability to defend myself and my family.

What kind of fool would purposely give a tactical advantage to people that are simply not going to follow your rules?

Has logic and reason completely evaded you?

Sorry to tell you that there are only 9 or 10 Countries with a HIGHER GUN DEATH RATE THAN AMERICA,all Banana Republics...so Stop Lying 100 Indeed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!what Bull Shit

How U.S. gun deaths compare to other countries

As for Ugays claim that Gun Deaths have gone down is more Bullshit as the Gun Death rates went up the last 2 years

As for Ugays assertion that the UK Gun Deaths have risen massively,again this is so ridiculous as the UK has a Gun Death Rate of .2 of 1% compared to the US rate of 10.2%

Spew on Ugay...but I am not the Moron...YOU ARE

 

[jon_berzerk]

Anyone know if the church was a gun free zone....

And if it is true that an armed citizen, with his own rifle, engaged and shot the killer, how soon will this story be buried by the press...?

The hero citizen will likely be personally attacked by the left. They don’t like people who can protect themselves without the government doing it for them.

The citizen should have called 911 and let the government handle everything.

there was a lefty on here the other day

that would call the good guy with a gun "violent" --LOL

He committed murder, right?

Will lefties demand the hero citizen be prosecuted for denying the shooter of his right to due process?

one could bet that may be the case

 

[Ame®icano]

Acording to Colorado Voter ID, shooter was UAF (Antifa).

Voter detail

That kind of stuff is not publically available. Try fake news.

Click on the link, moron.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Acording to Colorado Voter ID, shooter was UAF (Antifa).

Voter detail

That kind of stuff is not publically available. Try fake news.

no actually it is available to the public without regard for what they do with it

Voter Registration Data FAQs

 

[task0778]

This thread is unreal. If the guy was Black it would mean he is Black Lives Matter. If he was brown skinned he would be Muslim doing it for ISIS. Now if he is white he is an ANTIFA.

It's unheard of that the guy could just be a whacko gun nutjob who lost his marbles.

Yes.

Exactly.

And if he were Muslim it would be because of that - not because he was a homicidal whacko. Religion, like guns - is a tool to justify violence.

And...this loon was enamored with his guns.

Perhaps I am misreading your post, but religion does not justify violence, and neither do guns. Many misguided people have attempted to do so in the past, but when you disregard the basic premises of your own religion then religion is not to blame. Does his apparently fervent belief in atheism justify his attack on those who believe in God, any God? I think not.

Yes, this guy apparently loved his guns, so what? That didn't make him a homicidal whack either. Lots of gun collectors out there, no?

 

[Papageorgio]

I'll tell you this again, and if it doesn't sink in this time, then I'm done arguing with you because you refuse to use common sense... car deaths ARE NOT relevant to gun violence. Not even close to being relevant... at all. As proof, give me a list of times mass amounts of people were murdered by a car inside a church. I'm just using your reasoning here...

Car deaths are completely ******* relevant......more people are killed accidentally with cars....35,000 people every year, the leading cause of death for children........as opposed to mass shooters with guns...

In fact, knives are used to murder over 1,500 people every single year...mass shooters don't even come close...yet you want to use the rarest of these deaths to ban guns for the owners of 600 million guns...

That is why they are relevant....

And then there's the morality of it. The idea of restricting my ability to defend myself and my family against thugs and crazies that couldn't give two shits about rules and laws is highly immoral.

A good guy with a gun prevented further massacre today. That only happens in a free society. The only way to prevent bad people from doing bad things is a tyrannous society. North Korean doesn't have mass murders. I'll take freedom ever time.

There are LOTS of other countries other than North Korea with lower gun violence crimes.

What the hell difference does it make if the murder rate is via a firearm or a other means? Dead is dead.

In that regard, there are well over 100 countries with higher murder rates than the US, and all of them have de facto bans on civilian firearm ownership. Hmm...

MORE IMPORTANTLY, you completely overlook the IMMORALITY of seeking to restrict my ability to defend myself and my family.

What kind of fool would purposely give a tactical advantage to people that are simply not going to follow your rules?

Has logic and reason completely evaded you?

Oh lord... again I have to say this. I'm not for the abolishment of the Second Amendment. I'm not for taking away your right to defend your family... but NO ONE needs a ******* military grade rifle to defend their home in the United States.

And all you have is an opinion. I don’t own a gun and never will, but if a fellow American wants one, then that is their right.

 

[jon_berzerk]

So when?

When you are able to suggest a law that would have prevented things like this, already against quite a few laws, while not infringing on my right to defend myself and my family.

The floor is yours.

Define "Infringe" with some detail.

You are wasting your breath.

No matter what you say, it will be interpreted as worst case scenario. You could say you want to limit a person to owning only 1,000 guns unless they are a gun dealer, and people on this forum will yell at you saying they need 1,001 guns to defend their home against someone trying to TP their house.

And if you have 1001 guns, and don't use them to hurt anyone or to commit any crime...what is the ******* problem...considering this guy couldn't legally own a gun because of his Dishonorable discharge, yet he still got one..dittos all the terrorists and criminals in Europe where fully automatic rifles, not AR-15s, are completely illegal...

Does a dishonorable discharge abrogate a person's right to own a gun? I thought only a convicted felon couldn't.

yup it was illegal for him to have a firearm

 

[thetor]

This thread is unreal. If the guy was Black it would mean he is Black Lives Matter. If he was brown skinned he would be Muslim doing it for ISIS. Now if he is white he is an ANTIFA.

It's unheard of that the guy could just be a whacko gun nutjob who lost his marbles.

Yes.

Exactly.

And if he were Muslim it would be because of that - not because he was a homicidal whacko. Religion, like guns - is a tool to justify violence.

And...this loon was enamored with his guns.

Perhaps I am misreading your post, but religion does not justify violence, and neither do guns. Many misguided people have attempted to do so in the past, but when you disregard the basic premises of your own religion then religion is not to blame. Does his apparently fervent belief in atheism justify his attack on those who believe in God, any God? I think not.

Yes, this guy apparently loved his guns, so what? That didn't make him a homicidal whack either. Lots of gun collectors out there, no?

Why would some one be allowed 20 Guns and the reason for?????BAN ALL GUNS.....and watch the DEATH RELATED Killings would drop dramatically

 

[jon_berzerk]

You are wasting your breath.

No matter what you say, it will be interpreted as worst case scenario. You could say you want to limit a person to owning only 1,000 guns unless they are a gun dealer, and people on this forum will yell at you saying they need 1,001 guns to defend their home against someone trying to TP their house.

And if you have 1001 guns, and don't use them to hurt anyone or to commit any crime...what is the ******* problem...considering this guy couldn't legally own a gun because of his Dishonorable discharge, yet he still got one..dittos all the terrorists and criminals in Europe where fully automatic rifles, not AR-15s, are completely illegal...

We don't know 100% for a fact that was how he was discharged. And if he did own it illegally, does that mean we should make it easier for people to illegally obtain guns and quit trying to fix the problem?

No....it is already illegal for a felon to own a gun.....do you want a new law that says that it is Really Really Really illegal for a felon to own a gun...

Do you think that will work better?

No, I want to make it more difficult for a person to illegally own a gun, not easier.

That means not giving up...

Same here...that is why I want anyone who uses a gun for an actual crime to go to jail for 30 years....and any violent felon caught with a gun needs to go away for 30 years....

Right now...people like you let these repeat....repeat, violent gun offenders back on the street......

any violent felon with or/without a firearm should go away for 30 years

violence is the clue not the firearm

 

[task0778]

When you are able to suggest a law that would have prevented things like this, already against quite a few laws, while not infringing on my right to defend myself and my family.

The floor is yours.

Define "Infringe" with some detail.

You are wasting your breath.

No matter what you say, it will be interpreted as worst case scenario. You could say you want to limit a person to owning only 1,000 guns unless they are a gun dealer, and people on this forum will yell at you saying they need 1,001 guns to defend their home against someone trying to TP their house.

And if you have 1001 guns, and don't use them to hurt anyone or to commit any crime...what is the ******* problem...considering this guy couldn't legally own a gun because of his Dishonorable discharge, yet he still got one..dittos all the terrorists and criminals in Europe where fully automatic rifles, not AR-15s, are completely illegal...

Does a dishonorable discharge abrogate a person's right to own a gun? I thought only a convicted felon couldn't.

yup it was illegal for him to have a firearm

I know it would be illegal for him to buy one, but if he already owned a firearm(s) would he be required as part of the court-martial conviction to surrender them to law enforcement?

 

[Coyote]

This thread is unreal. If the guy was Black it would mean he is Black Lives Matter. If he was brown skinned he would be Muslim doing it for ISIS. Now if he is white he is an ANTIFA.

It's unheard of that the guy could just be a whacko gun nutjob who lost his marbles.

Yes.

Exactly.

And if he were Muslim it would be because of that - not because he was a homicidal whacko. Religion, like guns - is a tool to justify violence.

And...this loon was enamored with his guns.

Perhaps I am misreading your post, but religion does not justify violence, and neither do guns. Many misguided people have attempted to do so in the past, but when you disregard the basic premises of your own religion then religion is not to blame. Does his apparently fervent belief in atheism justify his attack on those who believe in God, any God? I think not.

Yes, this guy apparently loved his guns, so what? That didn't make him a homicidal whack either. Lots of gun collectors out there, no?

I agree that neither justifies violence but both are tools used in violence.

There is no evidence to support the claim that he had a fervent belief in athesim either - he showed interest in atheist webpages yet also taught bible classes to kids...a weirdly contradictory outlook.

He loved his guns was just an observation.

And yes lots of gun collectors don't go around shooting people.

 

[Papageorgio]

This thread is unreal. If the guy was Black it would mean he is Black Lives Matter. If he was brown skinned he would be Muslim doing it for ISIS. Now if he is white he is an ANTIFA.

It's unheard of that the guy could just be a whacko gun nutjob who lost his marbles.

Yes.

Exactly.

And if he were Muslim it would be because of that - not because he was a homicidal whacko. Religion, like guns - is a tool to justify violence.

And...this loon was enamored with his guns.

Perhaps I am misreading your post, but religion does not justify violence, and neither do guns. Many misguided people have attempted to do so in the past, but when you disregard the basic premises of your own religion then religion is not to blame. Does his apparently fervent belief in atheism justify his attack on those who believe in God, any God? I think not.

Yes, this guy apparently loved his guns, so what? That didn't make him a homicidal whack either. Lots of gun collectors out there, no?

Why would some one be allowed 20 Guns and the reason for?????BAN ALL GUNS.....and watch the DEATH RELATED Killings would drop dramatically

Death related killings? What in the hell does that mean?

 

[Coyote]

When you are able to suggest a law that would have prevented things like this, already against quite a few laws, while not infringing on my right to defend myself and my family.

The floor is yours.

Define "Infringe" with some detail.

You are wasting your breath.

No matter what you say, it will be interpreted as worst case scenario. You could say you want to limit a person to owning only 1,000 guns unless they are a gun dealer, and people on this forum will yell at you saying they need 1,001 guns to defend their home against someone trying to TP their house.

And if you have 1001 guns, and don't use them to hurt anyone or to commit any crime...what is the ******* problem...considering this guy couldn't legally own a gun because of his Dishonorable discharge, yet he still got one..dittos all the terrorists and criminals in Europe where fully automatic rifles, not AR-15s, are completely illegal...

Does a dishonorable discharge abrogate a person's right to own a gun? I thought only a convicted felon couldn't.

yup it was illegal for him to have a firearm

Well...damn. I had no idea about that one

 

[Lewdog]

Car deaths are completely ******* relevant......more people are killed accidentally with cars....35,000 people every year, the leading cause of death for children........as opposed to mass shooters with guns...

In fact, knives are used to murder over 1,500 people every single year...mass shooters don't even come close...yet you want to use the rarest of these deaths to ban guns for the owners of 600 million guns...

That is why they are relevant....

And then there's the morality of it. The idea of restricting my ability to defend myself and my family against thugs and crazies that couldn't give two shits about rules and laws is highly immoral.

A good guy with a gun prevented further massacre today. That only happens in a free society. The only way to prevent bad people from doing bad things is a tyrannous society. North Korean doesn't have mass murders. I'll take freedom ever time.

There are LOTS of other countries other than North Korea with lower gun violence crimes.

What the hell difference does it make if the murder rate is via a firearm or a other means? Dead is dead.

In that regard, there are well over 100 countries with higher murder rates than the US, and all of them have de facto bans on civilian firearm ownership. Hmm...

MORE IMPORTANTLY, you completely overlook the IMMORALITY of seeking to restrict my ability to defend myself and my family.

What kind of fool would purposely give a tactical advantage to people that are simply not going to follow your rules?

Has logic and reason completely evaded you?

Oh lord... again I have to say this. I'm not for the abolishment of the Second Amendment. I'm not for taking away your right to defend your family... but NO ONE needs a ******* military grade rifle to defend their home in the United States.

And all you have is an opinion. I don’t own a gun and never will, but if a fellow American wants one, then that is their right.

This isn't about a "gun."

I'm not for prohibiting "gun ownership."

 

[Coyote]

Acording to Colorado Voter ID, shooter was UAF (Antifa).

Voter detail

That kind of stuff is not publically available. Try fake news.

no actually it is available to the public without regard for what they do with it

Voter Registration Data FAQs

I can't find any indication that is even the same person - he is listed as living in Texas.