More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[Spare_change]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

There of 10 states,AZ, CO, FL, MO, MT, NJ, NV, OH, OR, and WA that index minimum wage to inflation. Senate Democrats are proposing this.

That's simply pandering - paying lip service without fixing the problem.

 

[OnePercenter]

That's awesome!
Maybe you can help me?
My business bought $900,000 worth of inventory and sold it for $1,000,000.
What is my business profit?

What period of time did this occur?

2014.

What was your operating cost?

 

[Spare_change]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

Given that my "inflation-indexed" retirement has increased an average of less than 1% over the past five years, I'm pretty sure that won't work.

I mean linked to the CPI. It hasn't moved too much in the last five years, but that would actually outperform the US median wage, which has decreased over the same period.

I think the historical average of the CPI is about 3.5%/ann. Since it's theoretically supposed to be linked to the cost of a fixed set of goods (i.e. a fixed standard of living), it seems like the most reasonable basis on which to adjust the minimum wage.

The government uses CPI to determine raises in military retirement and Social Security - it's been almost nothing. Actually, it's been worse than nothing.

The government methodology for determining CPI does not include increases in food, energy, or medical care - the three largest impacts on cost of living. Frankly, it's a boondoggle.

 

[Spare_change]

We must raise the minimum wage until every fast food worker can afford a nice 3 bedroom in the suburbs and a big SUV. Because.....screw you Warren Buffett!

Sounds like 1956 under the pro-Union Republicans.

Minimum wage workers could buy a 3 bedroom house in 1956?
Cool! Link?

The average house in 1956 was $22K, or $53.00/mo. Minimum wage was $172.00/mo.

Apples and oranges, my friend ....

 

[syonidv]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

There of 10 states,AZ, CO, FL, MO, MT, NJ, NV, OH, OR, and WA that index minimum wage to inflation. Senate Democrats are proposing this.

That's simply pandering - paying lip service without fixing the problem.

Why wouldn't it fix the problem? Not enough? Too much?

Again: the CPI is the government's best estimate of cost of living increase. If our goal is to fix the standard of living for minimum wagers, linking minimum wage to the CPI is the most reasonable way to do it. That doesn't preclude the possibility of a one time bump or drop.

 

[syonidv]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

Given that my "inflation-indexed" retirement has increased an average of less than 1% over the past five years, I'm pretty sure that won't work.

I mean linked to the CPI. It hasn't moved too much in the last five years, but that would actually outperform the US median wage, which has decreased over the same period.

I think the historical average of the CPI is about 3.5%/ann. Since it's theoretically supposed to be linked to the cost of a fixed set of goods (i.e. a fixed standard of living), it seems like the most reasonable basis on which to adjust the minimum wage.

The government uses CPI to determine raises in military retirement and Social Security - it's been almost nothing. Actually, it's been worse than nothing.

The government methodology for determining CPI does not include increases in food, energy, or medical care - the three largest impacts on cost of living. Frankly, it's a boondoggle.

It does include those things. In fact, you can visit the .gov website and see it broken down by component. ETA: I'm not sure about medical care, but food and energy are definitely included.

The big fudge factor is "hedonic adjustments", which is a topic too detailed to get into. I generally agree with you that it undershoots real inflation, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Spare_change]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

There of 10 states,AZ, CO, FL, MO, MT, NJ, NV, OH, OR, and WA that index minimum wage to inflation. Senate Democrats are proposing this.

That's simply pandering - paying lip service without fixing the problem.

Why wouldn't it fix the problem? Not enough? Too much?

Again: the CPI is the government's best estimate of cost of living increase. If our goal is to fix the standard of living for minimum wagers, linking minimum wage to the CPI is the most reasonable way to do it. That doesn't preclude the possibility of a one time bump or drop.

It won't work because of the way the government determines cost of living - you lose ground every year. The areas most affecting your cost of living - food, energy, medical, etc - are NOT taken into consideration. They don't underestimate it - they ignore it!!! If you think THAT is bad, look up the phrase "chained CPI", which is being proposed by the Obama administration.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We must raise the minimum wage until every fast food worker can afford a nice 3 bedroom in the suburbs and a big SUV. Because.....screw you Warren Buffett!

Sounds like 1956 under the pro-Union Republicans.

Minimum wage workers could buy a 3 bedroom house in 1956?
Cool! Link?

The average house in 1956 was $22K, or $53.00/mo. Minimum wage was $172.00/mo.

$53 x 12 x 30 = $19080. At 0%. With no property taxes.
Your math is off.

Down payment? $53.00/mo was the average mortgage payment.

Link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The three? Sorry, technology has reduced my need for employees by two-thirds.

Technology increases sales. Won't you need increased employees?

Also, most technology has more to do with quality control and hazardous duty.

Technology increases sales. Won't you need increased employees?

Technology reduced my need for low skilled employees.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's awesome!
Maybe you can help me?
My business bought $900,000 worth of inventory and sold it for $1,000,000.
What is my business profit?

What period of time did this occur?

2014.

What was your operating cost?

Neglible. Call it zero for simplicity sake.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

Given that my "inflation-indexed" retirement has increased an average of less than 1% over the past five years, I'm pretty sure that won't work.

I mean linked to the CPI. It hasn't moved too much in the last five years, but that would actually outperform the US median wage, which has decreased over the same period.

I think the historical average of the CPI is about 3.5%/ann. Since it's theoretically supposed to be linked to the cost of a fixed set of goods (i.e. a fixed standard of living), it seems like the most reasonable basis on which to adjust the minimum wage.

The government uses CPI to determine raises in military retirement and Social Security - it's been almost nothing. Actually, it's been worse than nothing.

The government methodology for determining CPI does not include increases in food, energy, or medical care - the three largest impacts on cost of living. Frankly, it's a boondoggle.

The government methodology for determining CPI does not include increases in food, energy, or medical care

You are mistaken.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Here are more people being enlightened with basic economics.....

Seattle Minimum Wage Kills Jobs Hurts Students PJ Tatler

Students at the University of Washington in Tacoma are getting an object lesson in the value of a dollar. As economic dominoes fall in the wake of a municipal minimum wage hike to $15 per hour in Seattle, university students find themselves digging deeper into their pockets to cover higher prices resulting from the mandate.




Elsewhere, small-business employees initially thrilled by the “raise” granted them by the city have since learned that they’ll be losing their jobs later this year. Red Alert Politics reports:


[Z Pizza] owner Ritu Shah Burnham said she just can’t afford the city’s mandated wage hikes.


“I’ve let one person go since April 1, I’ve cut hours since April 1, I’ve taken them myself because I don’t pay myself,” she told Q13. “I’ve also raised my prices a little bit, there’s no other way to do it.”

I don't get why so many business owners treat labor as a fixed cost. It is anything but. Prices go up for everything, including labor.

And shame on people paying minimum wage just because the government enables them to do so.

Why pay people more than their labor is worth?

I didn't say to do that. Labor should go up with inflation just like everything else. Expecting to pay someone a minimum wage that has been in effect for 10 years is retarded.

If the value of their labor didn't go up, why pay them more? More importantly, why pay them $15 an hour? Are they going to become more productive? Can the owner raise prices to maintain his profit margin?

The value of your labor goes up when the value you produce goes up. In most instances it means you get promoted or move on to a better position. Expecting to make more money while providing the same value is silly.

yet employers expect greater value for the same wage.

When Henry ford started paying 5 bucks a day productivity among existing employees surged. Turns out workers can produce more when they arent facing an eviction or a cut in utility services at home. Who would a thought? Its as if they act like people instead of robots. How dare they.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

If the minimum wage was $50 just think of all the demand that spending would create !!!!! Lmfao

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Tell the Koch Brothers you failed them again!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 400 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

Good luck with that fantastic idiocy....

Vote out Republicans and help your Kids and Grand Kids.

Like dems helped the kiddies of baltimore, detroit, new orleans, philly, chicago etc??? Lol

 

[rdean]

Its an empty argument....

Any increase in labor will not be a absorbed by the company. Hours will be cut, a job will be lost, prices will rise. Any combination youd prefer.

One third of minimum wage earners are overpaid, another third underpaid...

And no min wage increase has ever lifted anyone out of poverty. Poverty rates have remained the same, as 60% of those in poverty dont work....

Its an empty gesture to the dim witted for their votes.....

Funny those things haven't happened with the many min wage increases of the past.

"In a comprehensive, 182-page summary of the research on this subject from the last two decades, economists David Neumark (UC-Irvine) and William Wascher (Federal Reserve Board) determined that 85 percent of the best research points to a loss of jobs following a minimum wage increase."

Forbes

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs.

Not true: A review of 64 studies on minimum wage increases found no discernable effect on employment. Additionally, more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage to $10.10 by 2016.

Minimum Wage Mythbusters - U.S. Department of Labor

85 percent of the best research points to a loss of jobs following a minimum wage increase.
So, if 64 studies show no job loss, 362 show that there is. You can quote that crap all day, but you are wrong!

Hmmm, the best research. It's so hard to choose which is best.

Let's see. One side, the side funded by corporations found: found no associated reduction in poverty rates, and then pointed out it was talking about the 60% of those in poverty that had no job. So it stands to reason that if you had no job, a raise won't help you.

Then there is the United States Department of Labor which has access to not just data, but to every job transaction in the United States. Who to choose? Such a difficult choice.

 

[Spare_change]

Anybody generally supportive of an inflation-indexed minimum wage adjusted every 5 years? I'm seeing a lot of "hike it into the stratosphere" and a lot of "keep it where it is" from sampling posts, not a lot of middle ground.

Given that my "inflation-indexed" retirement has increased an average of less than 1% over the past five years, I'm pretty sure that won't work.

I mean linked to the CPI. It hasn't moved too much in the last five years, but that would actually outperform the US median wage, which has decreased over the same period.

I think the historical average of the CPI is about 3.5%/ann. Since it's theoretically supposed to be linked to the cost of a fixed set of goods (i.e. a fixed standard of living), it seems like the most reasonable basis on which to adjust the minimum wage.

The government uses CPI to determine raises in military retirement and Social Security - it's been almost nothing. Actually, it's been worse than nothing.

The government methodology for determining CPI does not include increases in food, energy, or medical care - the three largest impacts on cost of living. Frankly, it's a boondoggle.

It does include those things. In fact, you can visit the .gov website and see it broken down by component. ETA: I'm not sure about medical care, but food and energy are definitely included.

The big fudge factor is "hedonic adjustments", which is a topic too detailed to get into. I generally agree with you that it undershoots real inflation, but it's better than nothing.

You're right - I apologize - it does include them - sort of. The housing model, for example, is based on a 1990 study, and the medical is based on a 1998 model, making them virtually non-impacting.

Given all that - using the CPI to change the minimum wage means that the people will still continue to fall behind - faster than the rate of inflation.

By the way, while I was researching a previous post (about the impact of raising the minimum wage), I ran across a reference that said that the federal government pays working fast food personnel about $7.3 billion in assistance. Why don't we just convert that to wage supplements, and cut out all the government overhead?

 

[OnePercenter]

Let's see if we can put this to bed once and for all ---

1. The average profit for a small business is $66,000/year. An Investigative Report on Franchise Profits
2. The average profit margin is 10.28%. What Is the Average Profit Margin for a Small Business Chron.com
3. Restaurants use what is called the "30-30-30" model. (30% for labor, 30% for materials, 30% for facilities).
4. $66K profit (10% of gross) means approximately $675K in revenue.
5. 30% of revenue (for labor) means available labor dollars of $191.5K/year
6. The average fast food restaurant employs 15.71 workers. Employees per establishment in the U.S. fast food industry 2018 Statistic
7. The median wage for fast food workers is $8.69/hr Fast Food Poverty Wages The Public Cost of Low-Wage Jobs in the Fast-Food Industry Center for Labor Research and Education
8. At $8/hour, each worker would be required to work 1,523 hours to earn his/her labor dollars.
9. At $15/hour, each work would be required to work 812 hours to earn his/her salary.

Based on those statistics, the owner would have five choices:

1) Cut the number of hours worked for each employer by 711 hours and hire an additional 7.5 workers to cover the labor hour shortfall, further exacerbating the problem (an additional 7.5 workers would cost approximately $90,000).
2) Increase his labor costs to $280,000/year. ($191K current labor costs + $90,000 new labor costs)
3) Assuming no increase in profit, cost of materials, or cost of facilities, raise his prices to generate a new total revenue of $765K/year, a price increase of 13.3%. ($675K previous revenue + $90,000 in new labor costs)
4) Hold his product price line, sacrifice ALL profit, and still go in the hole $24K)

or:

5) Close his business down, putting everybody out of work.

There are, of course, alternatives - he can reduce the quality of his product, he can close earlier/open later, he can have fewer server people on duty - all of which will negatively impact the customer experience, and drive customers away. Or, as we've seen lately, he can being to automate his processes.

So lets talks real world

The average profit for a small business is $66,000/year.

That doesn't include the employers pay. Better yet, pay your kids and charge them rent.

Restaurants use what is called the "30-30-30" model.

See above. Since I've invested in restaurants your forgetting supplier kickbacks.

Do the math now.

I have a friend that owns a taxicab company in Vegas. Someday I'll tell you how all 16 companies have a 12% operating cost.

 

[rdean]

If the minimum wage was $50 just think of all the demand that spending would create !!!!! Lmfao

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Tell the Koch Brothers you failed them again!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 400 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

Good luck with that fantastic idiocy....

Vote out Republicans and help your Kids and Grand Kids.

Like dems helped the kiddies of baltimore, detroit, new orleans, philly, chicago etc??? Lol

Notice how Republicans bring up a few cities and claim that Democratic Policies hurt those cities. But when you point out the Red States controlled by conservative policies for the last 150 years and what financial, economic, educational and environmental disasters they are and how they are completely dependent on government for just about everything and how the money comes from those Blues States they make fun of, they go ballistic. Tell them to prove otherwise and they know they can't, we know they can't. So they scream louder. I'm guessing it's the only real comfort they have. They sound of their own ignorant voices.

 

[OnePercenter]

If the minimum wage was $50 just think of all the demand that spending would create !!!!! Lmfao

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Tell the Koch Brothers you failed them again!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 400 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

Good luck with that fantastic idiocy....

Vote out Republicans and help your Kids and Grand Kids.

Like dems helped the kiddies of baltimore, detroit, new orleans, philly, chicago etc??? Lol

You can start by doing your part in voting out all Republicans and putting the middle class back to work at livable wages.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the minimum wage was $50 just think of all the demand that spending would create !!!!! Lmfao

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Tell the Koch Brothers you failed them again!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2013 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 400 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

Good luck with that fantastic idiocy....

Vote out Republicans and help your Kids and Grand Kids.

Like dems helped the kiddies of baltimore, detroit, new orleans, philly, chicago etc??? Lol

You can start by doing your part in voting out all Republicans and putting the middle class back to work at livable wages.

All the Republicans were voted out of Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, Philly and Chicago. How's the black unemployment rate in those cities now?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Lets put to work millions of illegal immigrants first ..... At $25 an hr living wage....... Just think of the spending !

Lol