More From the Religion of Peace

[NewGuy]

What exactly am I lying about?

I will defend peaceful Muslims and Christians equally. I will speak out against violent ones and even those who propose violent solutions or genocidal solutions to dealing with each other.

I think I have been consistent with all of this. Where have I strayed from this and lied? I am sorry if I am offending you.

Offending me?

Even your verbage is indicative of my claim.

If you defend islam at all without knowing anything about it, you are ignorant.

If you do so WITHOUT promoting Christianity, you are biased.

If you do it while mocking others who claim and can prove it a violent religion, you are sypathetic.

If you do it while using verbage and mannerisms common to muslims, what does that make you?

A liar to say the least.

 

[NewGuy]

New Guy:

How are you going to tell me that this religion promotes terrorism? It does not. That is not supported by, the Qur'an, sunna of Muhammad (saw) or the vast majority of Islam's 1400 plus years of history. And remember: anything can be taken out of context (including Christianity and the Bible).

You are telling ME to remember things can be taken out of context?

I refer you to the religious section and the numerous threads on the topic.

I don't need to tell you anything.

You have the koran.

By your not accepting my statement and defending yourself you claim to follow it.

Therefore, my point is clear.

 

[freeandfun1]

. . . . remember: anything can be taken out of context (including Christianity and the Bible).

You are correct. Notice though that, in the west at least, when RADICAL Christians start participating in violent acts, our leaders are quick to condemn and even quicker to convict. Timothy McVeigh was tried, convicted and executed for his actions. All we here out of the Islamic leaders is, "we need to understand them more". Or, "if it were not for the policies of the USA". Or, "the damn Jews are to blame". Or, well, you get my drift.

If you really want Americans to stop looking at Islam in a bad light, then shed some good light on the religion. I am a firm believer in "live and let live" and I expect the same out of the Islamic community.

 

[TheOne]

Offending me?

Even your verbage is indicative of my claim.

If you defend islam at all without knowing anything about it, you are ignorant.

If you do so WITHOUT promoting Christianity, you are biased.

If you do it while mocking others who claim and can prove it a violent religion, you are sypathetic.

If you do it while using verbage and mannerisms common to muslims, what does that make you?

A liar to say the least.

I am defending Islam because you have leveled a hateful, bigoted attack against it in a public forum. If a radical Islamist posted negative, hateful rhetoric about Christianty, I would defend Christianty. You are the one who is instigating hate rhetoric on an entire religion, not me. If my disagreement with your ideology is what you perceive as "mocking" you, then I guess I am guilty. I am sorry you see it that way.

To me, you have not proven Islam is a violent religion. You have quoted some passages from the Koran and rested your case. You have not met the burden of proof to me.

I had no idea I was using "verbage and mannerisms" common to muslims, but if I am, then you are hurting your case. You have aggresively confronted me and called me a liar. I am respectfully debating you and not insulting you.

 

[NewGuy]

I am defending Islam because you have leveled a hateful, bigoted attack against it in a public forum.

Hateful and bigoted?

-Against a philosophy?

You have issues.

Hate and bigotry is only applicable toward an individual. In addition, if you do not hate and have biggotry against wrong, then you are part of the problem.

If a radical Islamist posted negative, hateful rhetoric about Christianty, I would defend Christianty. You are the one who is instigating hate rhetoric on an entire religion, not me.

Wrong again. You just admitted being in favor of it. I am against it, and you call me biggoted and hateful. You know nothing about it, by admission.

You are a proponent of it. -And you lie about it. YOu will never convince me you aren't either:

a: a liberal against Christianity.

or

b: a muslim

If my disagreement with your ideology is what you perceive as "mocking" you, then I guess I am guilty. I am sorry you see it that way.

Again, you must be muslim.

I never claimed you "offending" me.

I never claimed you "mocking" me.

Muslims use these words profusely in their discussions over religious differences.

Again, you lie and then lie to cover it up.

The koran justifies just such approaches.

To me, you have not proven Islam is a violent religion. You have quoted some passages from the Koran and rested your case. You have not met the burden of proof to me.

You promote it and claim to not know what it says. You obviously wouldn't care about the text, so what's the point?

I had no idea I was using "verbage and mannerisms" common to muslims, but if I am, then you are hurting your case. You have aggresively confronted me and called me a liar. I am respectfully debating you and not insulting you.

So what?

Being a liar has been proven.

If your feelings are hurt by truth, that isn't my problem.

 

[khayri11]

New Guy, you are without a doubt the most narrow-minded individual on this site. "You must be a Muslim!" "You must be a liberal against Christianity!" What is that about? The One makes it pretty clear that he is against BIGOTRY of any kind. It doesn't matter what he is, his position is the just position to take.

 

[TheOne]

Hateful and bigoted?

-Against a philosophy?

You have issues.

Hate and bigotry is only applicable toward an individual. In addition, if you do not hate and have biggotry against wrong, then you are part of the problem.

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. I beleive it is applicable to much more than an individual. Your additional sentence pretty much proves my point.

No offense, but I beleive you ARE a bigot. I think I can safely assume that you are an anti-Islamic that really has no desire to see a more peaceful, less hateful way of viewing Muslims. I am truly sad you feel that way and even sadder that you are betraying one of the core tenets of Christianity, love thy neighbor.

 

[NewGuy]

New Guy, you are without a doubt the most narrow-minded individual on this site.

Thank you.

Considering my view is backed up by fact, I take this to mean I am committed to truth and I am right on track.

"You must be a Muslim!" "You must be a liberal against Christianity!" What is that about? The One makes it pretty clear that he is against BIGOTRY of any kind. It doesn't matter what he is, his position is the just position to take.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter what he is?

It always matters what people do. His view has been a contradictory lie as proven. You defend him even in the face of proof he has lied.

Being against biggotry of any kind means even being against biggotry of wrong. This is NOT "just the position to take".

You know what this is about, and since you cannot win on the front of text, you are trying to win on the front of defending character.

Nice try.

 

[TheOne]

You are correct. Notice though that, in the west at least, when RADICAL Christians start participating in violent acts, our leaders are quick to condemn and even quicker to convict. Timothy McVeigh was tried, convicted and executed for his actions.

Are you sure that McVeigh was a Christian terrorist? I thought he was more of a radical conservative. Do you have info/links about McVeigh's radical Christian motivations? Please share.

 

[NewGuy]

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. I beleive it is applicable to much more than an individual. Your additional sentence pretty much proves my point.

Commendable. The exact definition from www.m-w.com

You r quote here proves MY point. There is nothing wrong with this being applied to a situation of proper vs improper behavior such as an inanimate thing like islam.

No offense, but I beleive you ARE a bigot. I think I can safely assume that you are an anti-Islamic that really has no desire to see a more peaceful, less hateful way of viewing Muslims.

1. Being called a bigot by you makes me feel good. Please keep doing so. It is like hitler calling the world jew-lovers.

2. I have no desire to see islam spread. As I clearly stated, islam is terrorism at the core. Any peaceful religion which is an offshoot is not islam. Anyone who is muslim cannot escape their text. Either they follow it or they don't. It isn't MY view, that is simple logic backed by the text.

I am truly sad you feel that way and even sadder that you are betraying one of the core tenets of Christianity, love thy neighbor.

You don't even have a freakin clue.

Loving a neighbor has nothing to do with loving or promoting SIN.

You claimed to not know anything about islam OR Christianity.

If you want to quote Biblical text, or explore the koran, take it to the other RELIGION section and I will be happy to continue this.

 

[freeandfun1]

Are you sure that McVeigh was a Christian terrorist? I thought he was more of a radical conservative. Do you have info/links about McVeigh's radical Christian motivations? Please share.

he wasn't a Christian terrorist or a radical conservative. he was an Aryan and anarchist if anything.

There have been many on the left that point to Mr. McVeigh when trying to point out that Muslims are not the only "religious" terrorists. McVeigh is a "Christian" or "conservative" terrorist when it is convenient for the left.

So when did the media begin to routinely portray McVeigh as a Christian terrorist? Right after 9-11. Here are two early examples: On Sept. 17, 2001, a San Francisco Chronicle columnist blurted: "The hijackers are no more typical Muslims than Timothy McVeigh is a typical Christian." On Oct. 4, a USA Today columnist picked up the refrain, describing Sept. 11 terrorists as having "more in common with Timothy McVeigh, whose twisted paramilitary take on Christian retribution led him to avenge the Davidians' death."

LINK TO THE FULL STORY

 

[khayri11]

Funny how you consider every thing you say as fact and truth?

 

[TheOne]

If you want to quote Biblical text, or explore the koran, take it to the other RELIGION section and I will be happy to continue this.

No offense, but I prefer respectful, freindly discourse with no ad hominem attacks. It is clear that my time would not be well spent debating with you.

If you are the representative of some hateful offshoot religion looking for converts, I have no desire to listen to you proselytize. The Christians I know would be disgusted by your rhetoric.

Good day sir.

 

[NewGuy]

Funny how you consider every thing you say as fact and truth?

Funny how you continue to twist context, huh?

Is this considered lying, or making mistakes?

Here is my quote:

Thank you.

Considering my view is backed up by fact, I take this to mean I am committed to truth and I am right on track.

 

[NewGuy]

No offense, but I prefer respectful, freindly discourse with no ad hominem attacks. It is clear that my time would not be well spent debating with you.

If you consider an attack on islam an attack on YOU then you again prove my point that you are at least a sympathiser to terrorism if not a muslim yourself.

You keep getting concerned by using the word "offense" like you are offending me. Yet when you oppose with your view on anything OTHER than defending islam, you don't care to present such terminology.

Now you refuse to debate facts.

Whatever.

If you are the representative of some hateful offshoot religion looking for converts, I have no desire to listen to you proselytize.

So what? We have freedom of speech, not freedom to behead. If you don't like it, don't listen.

The cool part? I never claimed to be pressing it on you in the first place.

The Christians I know would be disgusted by your rhetoric.

Then you don't know any Christians.

 

[TheOne]

he wasn't a Christian terrorist or a radical conservative. he was an Aryan and anarchist if anything.

There have been many on the left that point to Mr. McVeigh when trying to point out that Muslims are not the only "religious" terrorists. McVeigh is a "Christian" or "conservative" terrorist when it is convenient for the left.



LINK TO THE FULL STORY

Freeandfun1, you are the one that initially infered he was a Christian terrorist in your previous post. I was just looking for clarification. I just knew he was a gun fanatic who was pissed at gun control initiatives. I can't find much linking him to neo-Nazi activity either. Ohwell, not that important I guess.

 

[TheOne]

If you consider an attack on islam an attack on YOU then you again prove my point that you are at least a sympathiser to terrorism if not a muslim yourself.

Actually, it was when you called me a "liar". Not important though. Good luck with your "crusade".

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Are you sure that McVeigh was a Christian terrorist? I thought he was more of a radical conservative. Do you have info/links about McVeigh's radical Christian motivations? Please share.

He was an unaffiliated neoluddite extremist. He was a brilliant mathematician, upset that computers would render mathematically brilliant people less important. He bombed academics doing computer related work. This is my understanding.

 

[TheOne]

He was an unaffiliated neoluddite extremist. He was a brilliant mathematician, upset that computers would render mathematically brilliant people less important. He bombed academics doing computer related work. This is my understanding.

That is interesting. I heard he was a paraniod survivalist type who was an expert in guns and weapons. Never knew he was paranoid about technological advancement.

 

[Merlin1047]

New Guy:

How are you going to tell me that this religion promotes terrorism? It does not. That is not supported by, the Qur'an, sunna of Muhammad (saw) or the vast majority of Islam's 1400 plus years of history. And remember: anything can be taken out of context (including Christianity and the Bible).

We've been over this several times already. Certainly many muslims are not out actively severing the heads of "infidels". Muslims present exerpts from the Koran which present islam in a favorable light. They are usually greeted by a barrage of counter-quotes which show that the Koran preaches hate and violence against non-muslems. There is no reason to go over all that again.

Just answer these questions:

1. If the muslim cleric at your mosque or temple called for a holy war against your neighbors, would you or many or your fellow muslims carry out his directive?

2. Can you point to any major land mass on the planet (excluding the poles) where muslims are not busily killing or abusing non-muslims for reasons based solely on the teachings of islam?

3. Can you explain why the Koran refers to non-muslims by the derogatory term of "infidels" and why it teaches that cheating or lying to "infidels" is acceptable?

Given what little I have personally read from the Koran and the conduct of many muslims throughout the world, I have a great deal of difficulty lending credence to assertions of muslim desire for peace and brotherhood.