More economic GOOD News...DOW hits new record..on track to hit 17K.

[Mac1958]

The market has gone up less than 35% over the last dozen years, is that really disconnected? Seems about right to me.

It hit an all time high with unemployment over 6%, profits - while large for some companies - are uneven, wages are stagnant, new hires mediocre, corporations aren't spending like they could be, on and on. There's no excuse for that, other than people chasing dividends because bond yields are so shitty and there's pretty much nowhere else to put money. The real figures simply don't support an all time high, not even close.

 

[EconChick]

LOL, Kaz, you're really making me laugh this morning. Gotta go, thanks for keeping Sallow and Fakey in check....

 

[kaz]

It hit an all time high with unemployment over 6%, profits - while large for some companies - are uneven, wages are stagnant, new hires mediocre, corporations aren't spending like they could be, on and on. There's no excuse for that, other than people chasing dividends because bond yields are so shitty and there's pretty much nowhere else to put money. The real figures simply don't support an all time high, not even close.

So that's a 2.5% annual return over a dozen years, isn't that reflecting a poor long term economy?

The market is up because before it was really low because of the Great Recession. Now that the economy has gone to mediocre returns from non existent returns. Your looking at it over the short term like that makes it look like something it isn't.

Suppose the pond in your back yard is a quarter full because there is a drought. Suppose rain returns to low normal, and your pond is half full. Is that really so great? That is what the market has done. You're saying, but it's up 100%, the water in the pond doubled! That's why you have to look long term.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well, it's my profession, and I know who to consult and who not to, LOL....

I've never seen a market more disconnected. Ask people in the business, this is the least-liked bull run in our careers, but that doesn't stop the numbers from doing what they're doing. So fine, we'll enjoy the run, but we know what it's built on. If growth catches up, we'll be fine. If not, we're going to see some problems.

.

Billions upon billions of QE Obamabucks flooding Wall Street tend to create a greater gap in economic performance and the market. It does surprise me how little the artificial inflation of the stock market has done to improve the economy, though.

 

[RKMBrown]

Billions upon billions of QE Obamabucks flooding Wall Street tend to create a greater gap in economic performance and the market. It does surprise me how little the artificial inflation of the stock market has done to improve the economy, though.

Revenue is flat. The stocks are up because govco is pushing the prices up, not because the economy is chugging along.

 

[Sallow]

Huh? Who said the market has nothing to do with the economy? LMAO you really need to take a logic class.

Picture a Venn Diagram. Picture two circles. One is the economy. Call that circle A. The other is the market. Call that circle B. In logic class, YOU would stick circle A completely inside circle B, or vice versa, because you see them the same.

In reality circle B would be a little biddy circle overlapping circle A. See the difference?

I'm sure you didn't grasp that. Even using caveman teaching techniques wouldn't help you.

He said economic turmoil in this country "generally starts in the stock market." Since I challenged that, it means I am saying the stock market "has nothing to do with the economy."

Those are the only options Sallow can think of. That's what he learned doing IT on Wall Street.

You didn't "challenge" it..you engaged in vulgar insults.

And personally? I could give 2 shits what you do. I've met brilliant janitors and dumbfuck CEOs. Basically they were where they were because of luck, bad and good.

I made a pretty straight forward argument and backed it up with whys and hows.

You and your ally here start talking about "Venn Diagrams" and Homosexual fantasies.

Which gives me pause to think about if you did that shit in a board room..you'd be escorted out by security followed by guys carrying a box full of your things from your desk.

Get it?

 

[Sallow]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

 

[Sallow]

Oh and the market today..


Edit
U.S.
U.S. Europe Asia
S&P 500
S&P 500
1,986.51
+4.91 (0.25%)

Dow
Dow
16,979.13
+59.54 (0.35%)

Nasdaq
Nasdaq
4,526.48
-1.03 (0.02%)

Gold1,290.90-0.33% Crude Oil93.61+0.17% EUR/USD1.3260+0.02% 10-Yr Bond2.4260+0.87% Corn367.50-1.28% Copper3.17-0.17% Silver19.44-0.27% Natural Gas3.85+0.81% Russell 20001,157.51-0.43% VIX11.78-3.52% BATS 100021,925.73+0.05% GBP/USD1.6598+0.02% USD/JPY103.7010-0.02%



Fed debates merits of earlier rate hike given U.S. jobs gains - Yahoo Finance

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve hinted on Wednesday that a surprisingly strong jobs market recovery could lead it to raise interest rates earlier than it had been anticipating.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Market goes up, and the market goes down. Anyone trying to use a short term gains or losses to prove a larger point is going to fail.

 

[Sallow]

Market goes up, and the market goes down. Anyone trying to use a short term gains or losses to prove a larger point is going to fail.

Except, since 2009?

It's been steadily going up.

 

[Mac1958]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Except, since 2009?

It's been steadily going up.

2009 was the bottom of a massive recession, surely you can concede stock valuations were extremely low at the time.

My point was quoting a few days of gains like you're doing and trying to spin that as some macroeconomic indicator just doesn't fly, anymore than someone pointing out the drop a couple weeks ago was indicating something else.

Look at it this way... if the market had a 10% correction soon would you attribute that to a bad economy and economic policies?

 

[Sallow]

Except, since 2009?

It's been steadily going up.

2009 was the bottom of a massive recession, surely you can concede stock valuations were extremely low at the time.

My point was quoting a few days of gains like you're doing and trying to spin that as some macroeconomic indicator just doesn't fly, anymore than someone pointing out the drop a couple weeks ago was indicating something else.

Look at it this way... if the market had a 10% correction soon would you attribute that to a bad economy and economic policies?

Sure I can concede that.

Just as you should be able to concede the market is now in record territory.

It's never been this high.

And a 10% "correction" (We aren't talking about a crash, are we?) wouldn't be entirely bad at all.

Additionally when you couple that with corporate earnings? Or employment? Or the dollar?

U.S. dollar hits nine-month high against euro on strong housing data| Reuters

All indicators are pointing not only to a robust recovery..but a strong economy.

 

[Sallow]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

 

[Mac1958]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

 

[RKMBrown]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

If you really want to mix with partisans you have to change your dialect and redefine all terms. Any time you say one of the terms that hit one of the partisan talking points you have to include the talking point in your discussion before continuing. This way you can give them some information interspersed (camouflaged) along with the talking points.

For example, when talking about something that may have a random aspect blame Bush and the random aspect that you wanted to discuss. Putting the talking point first places them in a state of bliss.

 

[Sallow]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

First off, I am not an "ideologue". That's something that I glean from your posts.

I am however pretty liberal. And by Liberal, I mean opened minded and open to processes and procedures that are reliable and work.

Your politics are not independent at all and you generally have rote conservative answers to everything. You do show some expertise in the realm of finance, but you use it to back your agenda and generally cherry pick data. That's fine, but at least be honest about it.

That's basically the best way to communicate. By being honest.

 

[Mac1958]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

First off, I am not an "ideologue". That's something that I glean from your posts.

I am however pretty liberal. And by Liberal, I mean opened minded and open to processes and procedures that are reliable and work.

Your politics are not independent at all and you generally have rote conservative answers to everything. You do show some expertise in the realm of finance, but you use it to back your agenda and generally cherry pick data. That's fine, but at least be honest about it.

That's basically the best way to communicate. By being honest.

Tell me Sallow, what are my positions on...

... Corporate regulation?
... Investment regulation?
... Personal income taxation?
... Unions?
... Abortion?
... Gay rights?
... War?

Somehow you've managed to miss all of the above. I think we can agree that we can't have an honest conversation, but for different reasons, of course. At least you admit you're partisan. In my book, that pretty much throws honesty right out the window.

.

 

[RKMBrown]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

First off, I am not an "ideologue". That's something that I glean from your posts.

I am however pretty liberal. And by Liberal, I mean opened minded and open to processes and procedures that are reliable and work.

Your politics are not independent at all and you generally have rote conservative answers to everything. You do show some expertise in the realm of finance, but you use it to back your agenda and generally cherry pick data. That's fine, but at least be honest about it.

That's basically the best way to communicate. By being honest.

Tell me Sallow, what are my positions on...

... Corporate regulation?
... Investment regulation?
... Personal income taxation?
... Unions?
... Abortion?
... Gay rights?
... War?

Somehow you've managed to miss all of the above. I think we can agree that we can't have an honest conversation, but for different reasons, of course. At least you admit you're partisan. In my book, that pretty much throws honesty right out the window.

.

Sallow is being as honest as he can be. He simply lacks the mental acuity to realize what how partisan his views are and how they color his views on how the market actually works. IOW his reality is seen through a colored lens. If your presented facts are in conflict with his colored reality, his mental conditioning will revert to defending the women and children from attacking lions mode.

 

[Sallow]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

No the absolutely are not.

And even moreso do to the effective repeal of Glass Steagall.

Amazing..seriously amazing.

Amazing indeed. An IT guy who pretends he's in my profession.

I don't see everything through a partisan lens. You do.

.

Not "pretending" anything, ace.

If I were "pretending", I could say I was a broker, or an analyst, or an investment banker.

Been pretty honest on these boards about what I do, what I have done and how I feel about things.

And I admit I am pretty partisan..

You? Not so much.

Correct, I'm not a partisan.

Okay Sallow, speaking of that, perhaps you can help me out here.

On one hand, you're a partisan ideologue - you're going to credit the Democrats when the market goes up and blame the Republicans when the market goes down. You're going to take the Left's side on economics and business economics pretty much no matter what.

On the other hand, I'm a political independent and an investment advisor. I'm compelled to view economics, business economics and the stock market from a dispassionate, open-minded and curious perspective. I don't view the world through a partisan lens, and I'm very happy about that, and it makes my job quite a bit easier.

So tell me, and I do realize that you may not really care, how would someone like me communicate about economics and business economics and the stock market with someone like you?

.

First off, I am not an "ideologue". That's something that I glean from your posts.

I am however pretty liberal. And by Liberal, I mean opened minded and open to processes and procedures that are reliable and work.

Your politics are not independent at all and you generally have rote conservative answers to everything. You do show some expertise in the realm of finance, but you use it to back your agenda and generally cherry pick data. That's fine, but at least be honest about it.

That's basically the best way to communicate. By being honest.

Tell me Sallow, what are my positions on...

... Corporate regulation?
... Investment regulation?
... Personal income taxation?
... Unions?
... Abortion?
... Gay rights?
... War?

Somehow you've managed to miss all of the above. I think we can agree that we can't have an honest conversation, but for different reasons, of course. At least you admit you're partisan. In my book, that pretty much throws honesty right out the window.

.

Not really sure what your "board" position on these issues are..they seem to change depending on who you are replying too and the time of the day.

And you are right..we can't.

Because that would mean you'd have to start being honest.

That hasn't happened.