Zone1 Morality is natural phenomenon.

[dblack]

You claimed morals are human constructs, right? So, if morals are human constructs can morals be anything man says they are? It's a really simple question.

I've answered it three times, moron. Are you incapable of reading English?

Don't be afraid of answering it.

Afraid??? Again, take your trolling elsewhere.

 

[dblack]

Can morals be anything man says they can be? I say they can't because they are independent of man. They exist unto themselves.

Read the fucking post your responding to. I'm not claiming anything to the contrary. Morals are human constructs and can be anything man says they can be. They can be hopelessly dysfunctional, or they can be valuable guides to successful survival.

The contrary, your vision of morality, is merely obedience. Which can also be anything, depending on which church/priest/holy book you happen to follow.

 

[Arlette]

How so?

You earned the poor opinion by supporting Trump

 

[ding]

It's not relevant. At all. My OP doesn't claim the contrary. My claim is that morals occur naturally, and don't require the mandates of a supreme being.

It's an attempt to derail the thread and inject an argument you'd rather have. Start a thread if that's what to bicker about.

It is extremely relevant. If you say morals can't be anything man says they are then that means they are man made constructs.

 

[ding]

Read the fucking post your responding to. I'm not claiming anything to the contrary. Morals are human constructs and can be anything man says they can be. They can be hopelessly dysfunctional, or they can be valuable guides to successful survival.

Great. So according to you morals can be anything man wants them to be. If enough humans got together and said pedophilia is moral then that could be moral because a majority of humans wanted it to be. Right?

 

[ding]

The contrary, your vision of morality, is merely obedience. Which can also be anything, depending on which church/priest/holy book you happen to follow.

That is incorrect. My belief is that morals are effectively standards and exist for logical reasons. It is logic which determines what is moral and what isn't. Just as it is logic which determines electrical code standards, building code standards, etc.

 

[ding]

You earned the poor opinion by supporting Trump

I think you assuming facts not in evidence, my dear. But please feel free to post a link that you think supports your belief.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The status quo of how you perceive morality, i.e., does morality have limits, can one only go so far before one is as moral as anyone can be?

If you are going to ask such questions, you really should define all of the terms and concepts in your question.

 

[dblack]

Great. So according to you morals can be anything man wants them to be. If enough humans got together and said pedophilia is moral then that could be moral because a majority of humans wanted it to be. Right?

Pedophilia eh? Troll off.

 

[ding]

Pedophilia eh? Troll off.

Ok, make it slavery then. Same point applies. According to you if enough people said it was moral to make slaves out of atheists, that would be moral under your concept. It wouldn't be under mine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Great. So according to you morals can be anything man wants them to be. If enough humans got together and said pedophilia is moral then that could be moral because a majority of humans wanted it to be. Right?

Yes, that is pretty much what early Christians and OTers did. But we are better than that now. Still some Christians fight to keep child marriage alive in this country. But not enough that your fantasy scenario would occur again.

So don't worry. We will not allow your religion to again do what you describe.

 

[ding]

Yes, that is pretty much what early Christians and OTers did. But we are better than that now. Still some Christians fight to keep child marriage alive in this country. But not enough that your fantasy scenario would occur again.

So don't worry. We will not allow your religion to again do what you describe.

So you are agreeing with me that morals are universal, innate and based upon logic.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you are agreeing with me that morals are universal, innate and based upon logic.

No, they carried the same instruction book you carry. Do you marry and diddle kids? Doubtful.

It shows full well that morality is a human construct, based on reason or superstition.

 

[Arlette]

I think you assuming facts not in evidence, my dear. But please feel free to post a link that you think supports your belief.

It's common knowledge that Trump most loyal supporters are Christians.

 

[dblack]

Ok, make it slavery then. Same point applies. According to you if enough people said it was moral to make slaves out of atheists, that would be moral under your concept. It wouldn't be under mine.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying moral systems develop in communities (human or otherwise) as survival strategies. You're fixated on something else. And you're really being a dick about it. Why?

 

[zaangalewa]

??

What concrete do you like to say with the empty daily phrase "evolution" which has in very most cases nothing to do with the real scientific theory of biological evolution? This you are for example able to see in the use of the word "alpha wolve" which makes perhaps sense in case of wolves and moral - but not for human beings because a human "alpha wolve" has not to have moral.
What's for a real alpha wolve normal (=to risk the own life for the life of other wolves) is anything else than normal for human "alpha wolves". Take the "alpha wolve" Putin as an example who has not any problem to send his own people into a stupid, senseless and brutal war.

PS: And I do not think we are able to make an empathy test for to find out in this way who is a good political leader with compassion. I heard Putin showed also tears. Even Alexander the great - an extremely brutal alcoholics - had been full of tears when his horse died and also after he had murdered his best friend.

 

[ding]

No, they carried the same instruction book you carry. Do you marry and diddle kids? Doubtful.

It shows full well that morality is a human construct, based on reason or superstition.

You are proving my point. According to you if enough people wanted to marry and diddle kids, you would consider it moral to do so because according to you man can construct morals to be anything he wants. According to you morals are decided democratically.

 

[ding]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying moral systems develop in communities (human or otherwise) as survival strategies. You're fixated on something else. And you're really being a dick about it. Why?

I'm not being a dick, this is the logical conclusion of believing morals are human constructs that can be constructed by men to be anything they want.

 

[ding]

It's common knowledge that Trump most loyal supporters are Christians.

That's nice. I don't care.

 

[zaangalewa]

It's common knowledge that Trump most loyal supporters are Christians.

Donald Trump is no Christian. And that he has a totally unchristian behavior say also lots of Christians who vote for him. For example in sentences like "I never would like that my son would be like Donald Trump." I would say many vote for Donald Trump because they see in him a minor problem. And the strategy of Donald Trumpo is very simple: "Make little what not makes me great". He brings everyone else down and so it looks like as if this dwarf is great. He is only an illusionary giant.