Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[thanatos144]

How about we check in with Jefferson Davis about the reason secession might be justified, or necessary?

You remember Davis, right?

1849

" ...There had been a war of seventeen years standing against the institutions of the South, a war whose weapons were both wounding and insulting. As opinion had been formed, authorized by our long supineness on this subject, that we have no sufficient feeling to perceive or to resent the attacks made upon us.

Men of another section are loud in their advice that there is no danger--that action now would be hazardous or useless, and that the generosity and philanthropy of the North will always prove a sufficient safeguard to Southern rights; but such advice is the lulling of the vampire fawning the victim which he will destroy.

Every compromise has been to our loss, as witness that of the North-western territory and that of Missouri. We have yielded thus far and the results have been that upon our tame submission is now based the demand that we yield the remainder. The equality left by our fathers is to be destroyed.

Give to the North what is now demanded, and soon we shall find a preponderance of three-fourths against us; the constitution of the United States will be changed and all that is now promised to the South will be forgotten. Submit to the loss of this territory, and we shall have next to submit to the abolition of slavery in the District of Columbia,

and soon the constitution will be changed and slavery abolished."

The fear of the South was that it would be overwhelmed by an eventual anti-slavery majority in Congress and then could not resist a legislative/Consitutional eradication of slavery.

Speech at Jackson Miss. May 7 1849 Rice University The Papers of Jefferson Davis

As much as you worship the founders, I think they were cowards and their unwillingness to tackle the issue of slavery from the start lead up to strife, division, and ultimately full blown war because no nation that is founded on the principles of freedom can long endure the enslavement of other human beings. These men weren't men of principle, they were politicians and typical of politicians, they avoided the big, divisive issues. The irony is, because slavery wasn't a widespread practice at the time, it would have been much easier to deal with then 80 years later when it became an invaluable component of America's economy, both in the North and in the South.

Slavery didn't start the Civil War, but what it did do is ensure there was already an existing fault line between slave holding states and non, so that other issue that drove the secession movement neatly divided this nation along that fault line. Either way, the blood of 600,000 Americans lays at the feet of the cowards who didn't want to rock the boat by addressing this issue.

Actually slavery was the issue that started the war.... All economic excuses for the war the south cowardly used all boiled down to wanting to expand slavery into the new territories.

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

 

[bripat9643]

ROFLMNAO!

The Cult has found a Right to murder one's own child in one's own WOMB in the Constitution...

LOL! In the first amendment which specifically forbids any laws that precludes the free exercise of religion, they found the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! Wherein ALL RELIGIOUS EXERCISE MUST BE SHUT DOWN the instant one comes to any position in US government.

Which establishes them as little more than the personification of Evil itself.

Quoting the Father of the Constitution on the meaning of the Constitution is the 'personification of Evil itself'?

Wow. Decaf for you.

NOooo... the personification of Evil is in the intentional misrepresentation of the words you quote.

The Consent to be governed by the enumerated and limited powers set forth in the US Constitution, in toto and FOREVER... does not provide any obligation in the way of consent to be governed by powers taken outside the scope of those specifically enumerated power.

(That's sorta the coolest part of republican constitutional government... and why such historically survives well beyond the average span of existence of the feckless democracy.)

Yet if you secede you are no longer part of the Constitution you are in essence pissing on it. Like Obama does

One is not a part of the Constitution, one is merely protected by the limitations that it sets upon the power of Government, which as the Founders noted many times and in many ways, is the greatest threat to freedom.

The south proved in irrefutable terms that secession is not a viable means of correction. Destroying the errant government is the only potential solution.

And the only time that THAT is a viable solution is at the point where that government commits the final atrocity, setting it beyond the means of the long suffering people, to tolerate it.

And that's coming, and coming rather soon I suspect.

But don't look to me to know when that will be, as I am not the government, therefore I am not in charge of what atrocities it commits or when... I am only a man with an instinctive understanding of the natural principles that sustain freedom and which subsequently define America.

So what your saying is like a progressive you want to piss all over the constitution and STILL demand that you are protected by it? Are you bipolor?

If there is anyone who pissed all over the Constitution, it was Abraham Lincoln, but your kind will defend him to your last breath. The Constitution places limits on government. It places no limits on private citizens.

You keep blubbering about the Constitution but you don't understand the most basic facts of the document.

 

[bripat9643]

How about we check in with Jefferson Davis about the reason secession might be justified, or necessary?

You remember Davis, right?

1849

" ...There had been a war of seventeen years standing against the institutions of the South, a war whose weapons were both wounding and insulting. As opinion had been formed, authorized by our long supineness on this subject, that we have no sufficient feeling to perceive or to resent the attacks made upon us.

Men of another section are loud in their advice that there is no danger--that action now would be hazardous or useless, and that the generosity and philanthropy of the North will always prove a sufficient safeguard to Southern rights; but such advice is the lulling of the vampire fawning the victim which he will destroy.

Every compromise has been to our loss, as witness that of the North-western territory and that of Missouri. We have yielded thus far and the results have been that upon our tame submission is now based the demand that we yield the remainder. The equality left by our fathers is to be destroyed.

Give to the North what is now demanded, and soon we shall find a preponderance of three-fourths against us; the constitution of the United States will be changed and all that is now promised to the South will be forgotten. Submit to the loss of this territory, and we shall have next to submit to the abolition of slavery in the District of Columbia,

and soon the constitution will be changed and slavery abolished."

The fear of the South was that it would be overwhelmed by an eventual anti-slavery majority in Congress and then could not resist a legislative/Consitutional eradication of slavery.

Speech at Jackson Miss. May 7 1849 Rice University The Papers of Jefferson Davis

As much as you worship the founders, I think they were cowards and their unwillingness to tackle the issue of slavery from the start lead up to strife, division, and ultimately full blown war because no nation that is founded on the principles of freedom can long endure the enslavement of other human beings. These men weren't men of principle, they were politicians and typical of politicians, they avoided the big, divisive issues. The irony is, because slavery wasn't a widespread practice at the time, it would have been much easier to deal with then 80 years later when it became an invaluable component of America's economy, both in the North and in the South.

Slavery didn't start the Civil War, but what it did do is ensure there was already an existing fault line between slave holding states and non, so that other issue that drove the secession movement neatly divided this nation along that fault line. Either way, the blood of 600,000 Americans lays at the feet of the cowards who didn't want to rock the boat by addressing this issue.

Actually slavery was the issue that started the war.... All economic excuses for the war the south cowardly used all boiled down to wanting to expand slavery into the new territories.

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

 

[thanatos144]

Gotcha, so as far as the United States is concerned, they broke the law. But to the Confederacy, they didn't care because they were no longer a part of the US.

Well, the Confederacy doesn't exist anymore, and never will again, so it looks like not only did the USA win the Civil War and the freedom of the slaves, they also won the right to mark it the books that the southern states broke the law when they seceded.

Since we are in the United States of America now, might be a good idea to go by what the United States of America says is law. We can't exactly go by Confederate law, because it doesn't exist anymore.


Just a thought.

And another supporter of Might Makes Right...

This country's independence was achieved by that very principle. Are you shitting on the American Revolution intentionally,
or did you just carelessly squat in the wrong spot?

Please explain your claim that the American REvolution was founded on the idea that Might Makes Right?

Because that does not match my understanding of the principles of the American Revolution.

Was a war fought and won by the USA? If you are going to rebel you damn sure better win.

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Gotcha, so as far as the United States is concerned, they broke the law. But to the Confederacy, they didn't care because they were no longer a part of the US.

Well, the Confederacy doesn't exist anymore, and never will again, so it looks like not only did the USA win the Civil War and the freedom of the slaves, they also won the right to mark it the books that the southern states broke the law when they seceded.

Since we are in the United States of America now, might be a good idea to go by what the United States of America says is law. We can't exactly go by Confederate law, because it doesn't exist anymore.


Just a thought.

And another supporter of Might Makes Right...

This country's independence was achieved by that very principle. Are you shitting on the American Revolution intentionally,
or did you just carelessly squat in the wrong spot?

Please explain your claim that the American REvolution was founded on the idea that Might Makes Right?

Because that does not match my understanding of the principles of the American Revolution.

The was a war of Independence. A war.

That one side won a war, does not mean they are operating from a MIght Makes Right principle.

That's exactly what might makes right means.

The Revolutionary War was actually a religious war with the Americans defending a belief that men had God given rights to equality and self-determination,

and England defending the belief in the divine right of Kings.

 

[thanatos144]

How about we check in with Jefferson Davis about the reason secession might be justified, or necessary?

You remember Davis, right?

1849

" ...There had been a war of seventeen years standing against the institutions of the South, a war whose weapons were both wounding and insulting. As opinion had been formed, authorized by our long supineness on this subject, that we have no sufficient feeling to perceive or to resent the attacks made upon us.

Men of another section are loud in their advice that there is no danger--that action now would be hazardous or useless, and that the generosity and philanthropy of the North will always prove a sufficient safeguard to Southern rights; but such advice is the lulling of the vampire fawning the victim which he will destroy.

Every compromise has been to our loss, as witness that of the North-western territory and that of Missouri. We have yielded thus far and the results have been that upon our tame submission is now based the demand that we yield the remainder. The equality left by our fathers is to be destroyed.

Give to the North what is now demanded, and soon we shall find a preponderance of three-fourths against us; the constitution of the United States will be changed and all that is now promised to the South will be forgotten. Submit to the loss of this territory, and we shall have next to submit to the abolition of slavery in the District of Columbia,

and soon the constitution will be changed and slavery abolished."

The fear of the South was that it would be overwhelmed by an eventual anti-slavery majority in Congress and then could not resist a legislative/Consitutional eradication of slavery.

Speech at Jackson Miss. May 7 1849 Rice University The Papers of Jefferson Davis

As much as you worship the founders, I think they were cowards and their unwillingness to tackle the issue of slavery from the start lead up to strife, division, and ultimately full blown war because no nation that is founded on the principles of freedom can long endure the enslavement of other human beings. These men weren't men of principle, they were politicians and typical of politicians, they avoided the big, divisive issues. The irony is, because slavery wasn't a widespread practice at the time, it would have been much easier to deal with then 80 years later when it became an invaluable component of America's economy, both in the North and in the South.

Slavery didn't start the Civil War, but what it did do is ensure there was already an existing fault line between slave holding states and non, so that other issue that drove the secession movement neatly divided this nation along that fault line. Either way, the blood of 600,000 Americans lays at the feet of the cowards who didn't want to rock the boat by addressing this issue.

Actually slavery was the issue that started the war.... All economic excuses for the war the south cowardly used all boiled down to wanting to expand slavery into the new territories.

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

Yes it was..... You see it was the rebels that invaded.

 

[bripat9643]

And another supporter of Might Makes Right...

This country's independence was achieved by that very principle. Are you shitting on the American Revolution intentionally,
or did you just carelessly squat in the wrong spot?

Please explain your claim that the American REvolution was founded on the idea that Might Makes Right?

Because that does not match my understanding of the principles of the American Revolution.

Was a war fought and won by the USA? If you are going to rebel you damn sure better win.

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

 

[bripat9643]

As much as you worship the founders, I think they were cowards and their unwillingness to tackle the issue of slavery from the start lead up to strife, division, and ultimately full blown war because no nation that is founded on the principles of freedom can long endure the enslavement of other human beings. These men weren't men of principle, they were politicians and typical of politicians, they avoided the big, divisive issues. The irony is, because slavery wasn't a widespread practice at the time, it would have been much easier to deal with then 80 years later when it became an invaluable component of America's economy, both in the North and in the South.

Slavery didn't start the Civil War, but what it did do is ensure there was already an existing fault line between slave holding states and non, so that other issue that drove the secession movement neatly divided this nation along that fault line. Either way, the blood of 600,000 Americans lays at the feet of the cowards who didn't want to rock the boat by addressing this issue.

Actually slavery was the issue that started the war.... All economic excuses for the war the south cowardly used all boiled down to wanting to expand slavery into the new territories.

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

Yes it was..... You see it was the rebels that invaded.

ROFL! What did they "invade?"

 

[thanatos144]

This country's independence was achieved by that very principle. Are you shitting on the American Revolution intentionally,
or did you just carelessly squat in the wrong spot?

Please explain your claim that the American REvolution was founded on the idea that Might Makes Right?

Because that does not match my understanding of the principles of the American Revolution.

Was a war fought and won by the USA? If you are going to rebel you damn sure better win.

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

 

[thanatos144]

Actually slavery was the issue that started the war.... All economic excuses for the war the south cowardly used all boiled down to wanting to expand slavery into the new territories.

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

Yes it was..... You see it was the rebels that invaded.

ROFL! What did they "invade?"

the USA's bases. Just because you say you are no longer part of the contract your state signed doesn't make it true. I know you honestly think you are defending some great ideal of freedom but your not. I am glad the confederates lost. Why? Because otherwise we wouldn't be as free as we are. You hate Lincoln because he won. You hate the constitution and all it stands for every time you support the confederates or even secession.

 

[bripat9643]

Please explain your claim that the American REvolution was founded on the idea that Might Makes Right?

Because that does not match my understanding of the principles of the American Revolution.

Was a war fought and won by the USA? If you are going to rebel you damn sure better win.

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

 

[thanatos144]

Was a war fought and won by the USA? If you are going to rebel you damn sure better win.

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

 

[bripat9643]

It doesn't matter what the South's motivation for seceding was because Lincoln's motivation for invading Virginia wasn't to free the slaves.

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

Yes it was..... You see it was the rebels that invaded.

ROFL! What did they "invade?"

the USA's bases. Just because you say you are no longer part of the contract your state signed doesn't make it true.

ROFL! It's true if it's true, and it was true. You dumbass Lincoln cult members refuse to acknowledge the distinction between territory and property. You can't station troops on overseas property if the host country doesn't allow it. Anyone who says you can is just a sleazy lying hosebag trying to prop up a lie.

I know you honestly think you are defending some great ideal of freedom but your not. I am glad the confederates lost. Why? Because otherwise we wouldn't be as free as we are. You hate Lincoln because he won. You hate the constitution and all it stands for every time you support the confederates or even secession.

ROF! If you defend Lincoln then you have no right to claim you believe in freedom or the Constitution. What you believe in is tyranny. Lincoln was a mass murdering tyrant who wiped his ass on the Constitution. Anyone who worships Lincoln can't claim they support the Constitution because he violated virtually every clause in the document, and he did so massively.

 

[bripat9643]

You really are nothing more than a bootlicking thug, you know it?

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

The dim never question anything they were taught in school. Who does that describe?

 

[-S-]

I unlike you am a realist and actually know my history of this period. You on the other hand are a complete dumbass who refuses reality because someone told you some traitors were good guys....You dont even realize how like a progressive you really are right now.

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

The dim never question anything they were taught in school. Who does that describe?

Even other conservatives think you're an idiot, Bripat.

The Confederacy was a cancer to the freedom of the people living in the United States. The Confederacy, quite literally, REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION.
God was on the USA's side. The Confederacy is gone, and their ridiculous belief that you can force others to work your fields for free is gone with them. Good riddance.

 

[thanatos144]

Dummy you cant invade your own land ...

It wasn't his land. If it was, then he was crapping all over the Constitution by sending troops to invade one of the states of the Union.

Yes it was..... You see it was the rebels that invaded.

ROFL! What did they "invade?"

the USA's bases. Just because you say you are no longer part of the contract your state signed doesn't make it true.

ROFL! It's true if it's true, and it was true. You dumbass Lincoln cult members refuse to acknowledge the distinction between territory and property. You can't station troops on overseas property if the host country doesn't allow it. Anyone who says you can is just a sleazy lying hosebag trying to prop up a lie.

I know you honestly think you are defending some great ideal of freedom but your not. I am glad the confederates lost. Why? Because otherwise we wouldn't be as free as we are. You hate Lincoln because he won. You hate the constitution and all it stands for every time you support the confederates or even secession.

ROF! If you defend Lincoln then you have no right to claim you believe in freedom or the Constitution. What you believe in is tyranny. Lincoln was a mass murdering tyrant who wiped his ass on the Constitution. Anyone who worships Lincoln can't claim they support the Constitution because he violated virtually every clause in the document, and he did so massively.

This is how sad and ignorant you are. Lincoln didn't start the war. The war was started before he even entered office by the terrorists you call confederate heroes.

 

[bripat9643]

You've proven over and over that you're a dumbass who only knows Lincoln cult propaganda about the war.

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

The dim never question anything they were taught in school. Who does that describe?

Even other conservatives think you're an idiot, Bripat.

The Confederacy was a cancer to the freedom of the people living in the United States. The Confederacy, quite literally, REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION.
God was on the USA's side. The Confederacy is gone, and their ridiculous belief that you can force others to work your fields for free is gone with them. Good riddance.

ROFL!

Lincoln denied habeas corpus.
Lincoln shut down 300 newspapers and arrested their editors for criticizing his administration
Lincoln put American citizens from the North in Concentration camps.
Lincoln tried to have a Supreme Court judge arrested for a ruling Lincoln didn't like.
Lincoln arrested the entire state legislature of Maryland.
Lincoln invaded states of the Union
Lincoln ordered his forces to rape murder and pillage citizens of the United States.

So who rejected the Constitution?

Bottom line: You're an imbecile and everything you know is wrong.

 

[-S-]

That is called history ,stupid.

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

The dim never question anything they were taught in school. Who does that describe?

Even other conservatives think you're an idiot, Bripat.

The Confederacy was a cancer to the freedom of the people living in the United States. The Confederacy, quite literally, REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION.
God was on the USA's side. The Confederacy is gone, and their ridiculous belief that you can force others to work your fields for free is gone with them. Good riddance.

So who rejected the Constitution?

Do you mean literally rejected, or 'rejected' in the sense that you disagreed with the actions they took?

If you mean LITERALLY REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION, that would be the Confederacy.

If you mean 'rejected' as in you don't agree with the way they led or the actions they took,

That would be ______*insert worthless opinion




Talk facts, or don't talk.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong. It's propaganda.

Only to the perpetually dim.

The dim never question anything they were taught in school. Who does that describe?

Even other conservatives think you're an idiot, Bripat.

The Confederacy was a cancer to the freedom of the people living in the United States. The Confederacy, quite literally, REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION.
God was on the USA's side. The Confederacy is gone, and their ridiculous belief that you can force others to work your fields for free is gone with them. Good riddance.

So who rejected the Constitution?

Do you mean literally rejected, or 'rejected' in the sense that you disagreed with the actions they took?

If you mean LITERALLY REJECTED THE CONSTITUTION, that would be the Confederacy.

If you mean 'rejected' as in you don't agree with the way they led or the actions they took,

That would be ______*insert worthless opinion




Talk facts, or don't talk.

You're quibbling about nothing. Only an idiot would try to claim Lincoln is the one who supported the Constitution.

That's a fact.

 

[regent]

They sure wanted to kill Lincoln, more than one attempt, one even before Lincoln took office.