Mitch Daniels Says Public Unions Should Be Abolished

[GoneBezerk]

FDR, the grand-daddy of social liberalism.....opposed public sector unions.

This fact just gets in the way of liberals today with their fucked up minds.

 

[The T]

I've never understood why somebody would want a union to negotiate their salary for them.
Suppose I produce $80 per hour of benefit for my employer. Suppose that Bob, Sally and Jim have the exact same job as me, but they can only produce $50 per hour of benefit because they are not nearly as effective and efficient as me. Why should I let the union negotiate a "fair salary" for all of us that equals $45 per hour? I'm worth more than that. The union just devalued me and my abilities. Screw that. I want to negotiate $75 an hour as my salary since I'm producing $80 worth of value. Let Bob, Sally and Jim negotiate their own salary based upon their value and contribution to the employer.

I work for a non-union Fortune 500 company. About a year ago I was promoted. As part of my negotiation for my new position, I demanded an additional week of vacation. Time off is is important to me, somebody else taking the same position might feel that a higher salary was more important to them than time off. With a union, neither of us would have the flexibility to negotiate time off vs salary. A union is a one size fits all kinda program. I don't want some other asshole determining what is "in my best interest".

Dead on. Unions don't recognize the value of the individual.

It's just collectivism...Socialism...and the unions profit handily from it and USE what they get against the interests OF the Individuals in thier midsts.

 

[Trajan]

Joining a union is a right.

I have to ask, how much poorer will the American working class have to get for a consensus of conservatives will say,

"okay, that's enough, we're happy now...."

you're suffering the usual critical thinking fail, they are only a right now in your mind becasue they now exist. public unions- using our funds? right my booty.

the civil service (which had laws before public sector unions showed up btw) survived fine without them for a century and a half, in less than half a century they have shit themselves and wrecked many municipalities ( Detroit, hello) budgets with ,many many more to come...... game over.

 

[The T]

FDR, the grand-daddy of social liberalism.....opposed public sector unions.

This fact just gets in the way of liberals today with their fucked up minds.

Eveyone a victim...everyone is OWED 'just because'...

 

[The T]

Joining a union is a right.

I have to ask, how much poorer will the American working class have to get for a consensus of conservatives will say,

"okay, that's enough, we're happy now...."

you're suffering the usual critical thinking fail, they are only a right now in your mind becasue they now exist. public unions- using our funds? right my booty.

the civil service (which had laws before public sector unions showed up btw) survived fine without them for a century and a half, in less than half a century they have shit themselves and wrecked many municipalities ( Detroit, hello) budgets with ,many many more to come...... game over.

Speaking of Detroit? [Now that you mention it]?

Report: Detroit Could be Broke in One Week, Faces State Takeover

 

[Wiseacre]

" Joining a union is a right. "

Up to a point, maybe. Certain jobs cannot be unionized, such as the military. We can't have people in uniform walking off the job in the middle of a war to get a bigger pay raise. But unless there is a valid reason to deny a specific group the right to unionize, I'm fine with that as long as they do not have the right to collectively bargain for pay and benefits. In the public sector that stuff oughta be tied to some formula for inflation, and maybe an index of somekind for wages and bennies that the private sector gets in their specific area of the country. JMO.

And BTW, an employee should also have the right to refuse to belong to said union, or to pay dues. I believe that should be the case for public or private unions, but I also think that oughta be a state issue for them to decide.

 

[The T]

" Joining a union is a right. "

Up to a point, maybe. Certain jobs cannot be unionized, such as the military. We can't have people in uniform walking off the job in the middle of a war to get a bigger pay raise. But unless there is a valid reason to deny a specific group the right to unionize, I'm fine with that as long as they do not have the right to collectively bargain for pay and benefits. In the public sector that stuff oughta be tied to some formula for inflation, and maybe an index of somekind for wages and bennies that the private sector gets in their specific area of the country. JMO.

And BTW, an employee should also have the right to refuse to belong to said union, or to pay dues. I believe that should be the case for public or private unions, but I also think that oughta be a state issue for them to decide.

Many states are on the way to signing up with the debtloads they have courtesy of dealing with Unions...Just watch the Union house of cards fall.

 

[Trajan]

Detroit has not had a republican mayor since 1962, in 1965 the state passed Pera, which extended rights to collectively bargain to public employees...etc. Romneys dad signed it too :LOL....and away they went....it is what it is, they made their bed the weedle people get shafted by......fill in the blank__________________

 

[The T]

Detroit has not had a republican mayor since 1962, in 1965 the state passed Pera, which extended rights to collectively bargain to public employees...etc. Romneys dad signed it too :LOL....and away they went....it is what it is, they made their bed the weedle people get shafted by......fill in the blank__________________

Yep. And they are reaping the benefits under Democrat/Union stewardship...ever been to YouTube and seen the videos of the blight?

Sad...but expected under Statist rule.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Joining a union is a right.

I have to ask, how much poorer will the American working class have to get for a consensus of conservatives will say,

"okay, that's enough, we're happy now...."

you're suffering the usual critical thinking fail, they are only a right now in your mind becasue they now exist. public unions- using our funds? right my booty.

the civil service (which had laws before public sector unions showed up btw) survived fine without them for a century and a half, in less than half a century they have shit themselves and wrecked many municipalities ( Detroit, hello) budgets with ,many many more to come...... game over.

You poor suckers on the right who have let the rich and powerful, the money interests, the corporate interests, convince you that your enemy is the guy who picks up your garbage because his union got him some affordable healthcare and some money when he retires.

Very sad.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've never understood why somebody would want a union to negotiate their salary for them.
Suppose I produce $80 per hour of benefit for my employer. Suppose that Bob, Sally and Jim have the exact same job as me, but they can only produce $50 per hour of benefit because they are not nearly as effective and efficient as me. Why should I let the union negotiate a "fair salary" for all of us that equals $45 per hour? I'm worth more than that. The union just devalued me and my abilities. Screw that. I want to negotiate $75 an hour as my salary since I'm producing $80 worth of value. Let Bob, Sally and Jim negotiate their own salary based upon their value and contribution to the employer.

I work for a non-union Fortune 500 company. About a year ago I was promoted. As part of my negotiation for my new position, I demanded an additional week of vacation. Time off is is important to me, somebody else taking the same position might feel that a higher salary was more important to them than time off. With a union, neither of us would have the flexibility to negotiate time off vs salary. A union is a one size fits all kinda program. I don't want some other asshole determining what is "in my best interest".

Dead on. Unions don't recognize the value of the individual.

It's just collectivism...Socialism...and the unions profit handily from it and USE what they get against the interests OF the Individuals in thier midsts.

Right, collectivism is evil.

That's why you don't see anything in the Constitution endorsing it...

...no nonsense like "We the People..."

 

[Trajan]

Joining a union is a right.

I have to ask, how much poorer will the American working class have to get for a consensus of conservatives will say,

"okay, that's enough, we're happy now...."

you're suffering the usual critical thinking fail, they are only a right now in your mind becasue they now exist. public unions- using our funds? right my booty.

the civil service (which had laws before public sector unions showed up btw) survived fine without them for a century and a half, in less than half a century they have shit themselves and wrecked many municipalities ( Detroit, hello) budgets with ,many many more to come...... game over.

You poor suckers on the right who have let the rich and powerful, the money interests, the corporate interests, convince you that your enemy is the guy who picks up your garbage because his union got him some affordable healthcare and some money when he retires.

Very sad.

now you are down to emotional rants.....the lib way out...well done sir, you're an official proggie tool

 

[American Horse]

Public worker unions existed before FDR came along and while he did not support them he recognized their right to exist under the constitution, that's more than we can say about some of these jerks who wave the constitution around all the time without bothering to understand it.

It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955.
[ ... ] the labor movement once thought the idea absurd.

Public sector unions insist on laws that serve their interests -- at the expense of the common good. The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers.

F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

 

[Amelia]

First responders need their unions. They need special advocacy due to the risks they face on the job and the split-second nature of the some of the decisions they are forced to make, decisions which members of the public critique from the safety of their armchairs and for which calculating politicians will throw them under the bus.

 

[alan1]

You poor suckers on the right who have let the rich and powerful, the money interests, the corporate interests, convince you that your enemy is the guy who picks up your garbage because his union got him some affordable healthcare and some money when he retires.

Very sad.

Appeal to idiocy

Very sad.

 

[The T]

First responders need their unions. They need special advocacy due to the risks they face on the job and the split-second nature of the some of the decisions they are forced to make, decisions which members of the public critique from the safety of their armchairs and for which calculating politicians will throw them under the bus.

I think citizens KNOW thier importence and will advocate good pay for them. They DON'T need Union's idiots speaking for them.

 

[The T]

Public worker unions existed before FDR came along and while he did not support them he recognized their right to exist under the constitution, that's more than we can say about some of these jerks who wave the constitution around all the time without bothering to understand it.

It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
That was George Meany -- the former president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O -- in 1955.
[ ... ] the labor movement once thought the idea absurd.

Public sector unions insist on laws that serve their interests -- at the expense of the common good. The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers.

F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

^Precisely. Know it's gotten to the point to where the public is sick of the greed at thier expense...

 

[Wiseacre]

First responders need their unions. They need special advocacy due to the risks they face on the job and the split-second nature of the some of the decisions they are forced to make, decisions which members of the public critique from the safety of their armchairs and for which calculating politicians will throw them under the bus.

Yeah, but should they be able to go on strike? Why is it a bad idea to set their pay and benefits at a comparable rate to that in other states, obviously with some kind COLA?

I can see having a union to preclude optimal use of manpower and resources, and other job related things. And BTW, I see no reason why they should have contributory pensions like everyone else. But collective bargaining for compensation? I don't think so.

 

[The T]

First responders need their unions. They need special advocacy due to the risks they face on the job and the split-second nature of the some of the decisions they are forced to make, decisions which members of the public critique from the safety of their armchairs and for which calculating politicians will throw them under the bus.

Yeah, but should they be able to go on strike? Why is it a bad idea to set their pay and benefits at a comparable rate to that in other states, obviously with some kind COLA?

I can see having a union to preclude optimal use of manpower and resources, and other job related things. And BTW, I see no reason why they should have contributory pensions like everyone else. But collective bargaining for compensation? I don't think so.

And go on strike against the very pepole that they are supposed to serve for a fussfit? NO ONE forced them to go the direction is life they chose.

I have ultimate respect for Firefighters, LEO's...but they HAVE TO Shed the Unions. It's thier detriment.

People know thier importance..and will pay them thier worth to society without embellishing a bunch of Union goons to live lavishly at thier expense.

 

[freedombecki]

Joining a union is a right.

I have to ask, how much poorer will the American working class have to get for a consensus of conservatives will say,

"okay, that's enough, we're happy now...."

you're suffering the usual critical thinking fail, they are only a right now in your mind becasue they now exist. public unions- using our funds? right my booty.

the civil service (which had laws before public sector unions showed up btw) survived fine without them for a century and a half, in less than half a century they have shit themselves and wrecked many municipalities ( Detroit, hello) budgets with ,many many more to come...... game over.

You poor suckers on the right who have let the rich and powerful, the money interests, the corporate interests, convince you that your enemy is the guy who picks up your garbage because his union got him some affordable healthcare and some money when he retires.

Very sad.

What exactly in the world is wrong with you, NYCarbineer? You're holding the garbage man back. He should purchase his own garbage truck, pick up garbage with a crew he pays, and live on Easy Street with his competitive income with other garbage men who do the same.

I mean, the people you would beat to death because they own businesses and have a couple of employees can't pay all the expenses somebody else incurs.

Privatize garbage pickup! Then the noveau riche fat cats of the Sanitation Industry can get the best insurance money can buy!

Stop holding garbage men back!

Free enterprise garbage collections!