Minority rules...Not majority rules. My opinion on the matter.

[Captain_Steel]

If I'm not mistaken, the premise of a democratic government is that majority rules. Isn't that the no. 1 principal? Decisions are made through voting which means the majority will rule. Of course, if something goes against the constitution then it won't go through but the constitution itself can also be amended, by popular vote.
But, what I see nowadays is that minority rules. Not majority. Twice I have seen state initiatives make ballot, get voted through, and then after all those years of planning and hard work, get thrown out by a judge due to a technicality. So basically, what happens is, millions of people give their signatures to get the initiative on the ballot, and then millions again vote it through at the election. So, by the end of it all you probably have at least half the state in agreement, they want it, and then one man comes around and says.....Nope, this isn't gonna fly. Due to a technicality.
Well, if the technicality has to do with it clashing with the constitution, be it state or federal, I think it deserves looking into changing the constitution. I mean if THAT many people are in agreement. Than that is the will of the people, constitution be damned!! I mean as long as people are of a sane mind and not being subversively influenced in any way, if the majority of America wanted to legalize crack then hey, even though I would rally against it, I would accept it as law, once the vote went through.
But the will of the majority is snuffed for the "rights" and "nondiscrimination" of the minority. Like affirmative action....How is it fair to cut out certain ethnicities from jobs, colleges, etc. so that others may have a boost? In this case the minorities are getting special treatment that the majority is un-entitiled to. Is that fair? Is that democracy? Is that majority rules?
The majority of Americans are fed up with illegal immigrants. Yet, is anything being done about it? No, there's probably more being done to help illegals then to deport them.
This whole dilemma just leads me to believe that our whole system is just completely ruined and corrupted. What will it take to reinstate the majority rules principal. Will re-electing George Bush do it? I mean he is a good guy but what has he REALLY done about issues like illegal immigration, affirmative action, etc. I know he's busy with fighting terror, and I'm pleased that he's worked so hard. But we got alot of other problems here that need addressing. The majority feels a certain way about things, and has for years, but doesn't have their way....THAT is WRONG.....

 

[Socialismbegone]

As Howard Cossel used to say,I'm just telling it like it is and you accomplished that in your post.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by Socialismbegone
As Howard Cossel used to say,I'm just telling it like it is and you accomplished that in your post.

That is the first post I have seen you put "simply". Congratulations!

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel
But, what I see nowadays is that minority rules. Not majority. Twice I have seen state initiatives make ballot, get voted through, and then after all those years of planning and hard work, get thrown out by a judge due to a technicality. So basically, what happens is, millions of people give their signatures to get the initiative on the ballot, and then millions again vote it through at the election. So, by the end of it all you probably have at least half the state in agreement, they want it, and then one man comes around and says.....Nope, this isn't gonna fly. Due to a technicality.

Hey there Captain, I think you are in the right church , but in the wrong pew.

I lived in CA and voted during several of the initiatives you are addressing. I too, like all other Californians supported them only to be dismayed when the higher courts threw them out. I was pissed and thought I would never participate in the process againg.

Then one day, I had an epiphany. Don't change the constitution, change the initiative - much easier. My point is this. These people that write the initiative need to ensure they comply with the constitution. On at least three of these measures, it was simple language that rendered them unconstitutional. Now I have to figure that anyone making and proposing laws, should have the wherewithall to ensure their law will pass the constitutional test. If not and it gets presented to the people, we can't bash the judiciary for doing what they are constitutionally required to d.

Anyway, as the Avatar suggests, there's my two cents worth.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel

But the will of the majority is snuffed for the "rights" and "nondiscrimination" of the minority. Like affirmative action....How is it fair to cut out certain ethnicities from jobs, colleges, etc. so that others may have a boost? In this case the minorities are getting special treatment that the majority is un-entitiled to. Is that fair? Is that democracy? Is that majority rules?
The majority of Americans are fed up with illegal immigrants. Yet, is anything being done about it? No, there's probably more being done to help illegals then to deport them.
This whole dilemma just leads me to believe that our whole system is just completely ruined and corrupted. What will it take to reinstate the majority rules principal. Will re-electing George Bush do it? I mean he is a good guy but what has he REALLY done about issues like illegal immigration, affirmative action, etc. I know he's busy with fighting terror, and I'm pleased that he's worked so hard. But we got alot of other problems here that need addressing. The majority feels a certain way about things, and has for years, but doesn't have their way....THAT is WRONG.....

Great post Steel, unfortunately today it is big business (rich) rules, thats the way it is in all third world country's and that is what America is soon to become.

Here is a interesting article that points to what I belive is Americas future:
http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/starticles/2001/mar/arrn031201.htm

What part of LA do you live in?

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel Captain, I took the liberty of cutting up your post into readable areas so I could frame a civilized reply.
If I'm not mistaken, the premise of a democratic government is that majority rules. Isn't that the no. 1 principal? Decisions are made through voting which means the majority will rule. Of course, if something goes against the constitution then it won't go through but the constitution itself can also be amended, by popular vote. You are both right and wrong. We do not have a democratic governement. We have a Constitutional Republic. What that means is that you elect officials to govern on your behalf. Once elected you have no say in the matter until the next election or through any redress permitted by law. But, what I see nowadays is that minority rules. Not majority. Correct, that is a Republican Government in actionTwice I have seen state initiatives make ballot, get voted through, and then after all those years of planning and hard work, get thrown out by a judge due to a technicality. So basically, what happens is, millions of people give their signatures to get the initiative on the ballot, and then millions again vote it through at the election. So, by the end of it all you probably have at least half the state in agreement, they want it, and then one man comes around and says.....Nope, this isn't gonna fly. Due to a technicality. Blame the lawyers who failed to consult existing law before writing another law. You cannot use Momma to contradict Poppa. Well, if the technicality has to do with it clashing with the constitution, be it state or federal, I think it deserves looking into changing the constitution. I mean if THAT many people are in agreement. Than that is the will of the people, constitution be damned!! I mean as long as people are of a sane mind and not being subversively influenced in any way, if the majority of America wanted to legalize crack then hey, even though I would rally against it, I would accept it as law, once the vote went through. Imagine if you will that you are an innocent man accused of killing a child in an unspeakable manner. When teh Mob pulls you from the jail and rends you limb from limb after castrating you with a hacksaw, you have just been subjected to the "will of the people". Can ya feel it yet?
But the will of the majority is snuffed for the "rights" and "nondiscrimination" of the minority. Like affirmative action....How is it fair to cut out certain ethnicities from jobs, colleges, etc. so that others may have a boost? In this case the minorities are getting special treatment that the majority is un-entitiled to. Is that fair? Is that democracy? Is that majority rules? Grasshopper, your Kung Fu is getting stronger here. I agree that AA is old and should go. But, as a Republic, it is my job to ensure that we elect officials who will do this. If we lived in a Democracy we'd simply vote on every little thing. Soon many would stop voting and we'd be controlled by even fewer people.
The majority of Americans are fed up with illegal immigrants. Yet, is anything being done about it? No, there's probably more being done to help illegals then to deport them. Which Indian tribe are you from? This is a nation of immigrants. I agree we need to document incoming immigrants and deport illegals, but your call to seal the borders (did I get your hidden meaning right?) will lead to internal travel zones, personal visas, etc ala teh USSR.
This whole dilemma just leads me to believe that our whole system is just completely ruined and corrupted. What will it take to reinstate the majority rules principal. Will re-electing George Bush do it? I mean he is a good guy but what has he REALLY done about issues like illegal immigration, affirmative action, etc. I know he's busy with fighting terror, and I'm pleased that he's worked so hard. But we got alot of other problems here that need addressing. The majority feels a certain way about things, and has for years, but doesn't have their way....THAT is WRONG..... You are correct that our country is not even close to what our founders expected. Please read this link that will explain the differences between a Democracy and a Republic. http://www.indixie.com/indixie/Articles/Republic.htm

 

[leojoeyjoe]

First off, we are a democratic republic....not a democracy....secondly, there is already much written in conservative philosophy about the "tyranny of the majority"...
nothing new here...

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Majority rule, minority rights. Simple as that.

 

[Captain_Steel]

Originally posted by Big D
Great post Steel, unfortunately today it is big business (rich) rules, thats the way it is in all third world country's and that is what America is soon to become.

Here is a interesting article that points to what I belive is Americas future:
http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/starticles/2001/mar/arrn031201.htm

What part of LA do you live in?

Costa Mesa, right next door to Santa Ana, a city of 300,000+ mexicans. Nobody speaks english there. Even the schools are taught entirely in spanish. It's the dirtiest city in the USA that I've ever had the displeasure of visiting. It's like being in a turd world nation except the streets are kept up from my tax money. And more than half of the residents are collecting welfare and getting their rents paid for through section 8.

I read the story on your link. MAN, what a story that guy has to tell. Why the hell doesn't Micheal Savage put him on the radio? I know Rush Limbaugh would never have the balls. I am going to bookmark that page and direct my friends and family to that story. I swear to christ, it's happening, and before we (as a whole) even know WHAT the fuck's goin' on, it'll be too late.

some quotes from the story that stirred me:

Unable to cope with the new rules of the game -- violence, mob riots, intimidation through accusations of racism, demands for proportionality based on racial numbers, and all the other social and political weapons used by the have-nots to bludgeon treasure and power from the haves.

A television program aired in South Africa showed a town meeting in Southern California where people met to complain about falling standards in the schools. Whites who politely spoke at the meeting clearly resented the influx of Mexican immigrants into their community. When a handful of Chicanos at the back of the hall shouted and waved their hands at them, the whites simply shrunk back into their seats rather than tell the noisemakers to shut up. They didn't want to quarrel.

Unfortunately, your habits and values work against you. You cannot fight terror and street mobs with letters to your Congressmen. You cannot fight accusations of racism with prayer meetings. You cannot appeal to the goodness of your fellow man when the fellow man despises you for your weakness and hacks off the arms and legs of his political opponents.

That guy, Robbie Noel, is a survivor telling the tale of our future. Minority rules, not majority. It's already well under way here in California and if you think that jackass Schwarzeneggar is going to do anything about you'd be dead wrong. A conservative, yeah right, he's already going back on his campaign promise NOT to give driver's licenses to illegals.

Anyways, thanks for that link....I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight, not kidding. I think the part that scares me most is that politicians only advice is: just keep on writing letters to your congressmen....I mean if that worked would be where we are the now? Fuck no. Robbie had it right when he stated that that just will not work in nowadays. What will? I'm afraid to find out....Afraid...But ready. Know what I mean?

 

[Big D]

I would not mind so much, mexicans invading the U.S. The problem is that mexicans ruin any area they inhabit.