Minority kids are stupid

[OldLady]

My grandkids have career fairs in their elementary school. K-5 meeting with colleges and military recruiters. Just far away from my days of school.

There are 8th graders writing programs for games and other cool stuff. Building bridges with popsicle sticks that can with can handle 150 lbs psi of pressure.

K-5 meetings with colleges and military recruiters? That's crazy. When I was that age, I thought I wanted to be a nurse because I was reading all the Cherry Ames novels (kinda like Nancy Drew only a young nurse). Never mind that if anyone threw up or started bleeding, I was throwing up or fainting right along with them.

 

[sealybobo]

That's sad and awful.

When did this weird paranoia about intelligence and education begin?

It really is okay to be intelligent and educated. Really.

I can't believe I just said that.
.

So in your estimation, being "intelligent and educated" means spewing back, literally, a bunch of random sounds and words for which you have no idea the meaning. And could not explain to anyone if your life depended on it.

That is no where near "learning"--it is mere rote memorization. Memorization has limited used when it is a building block for other knowledge, absolutely: IOW, multiplication tables. The Gettysburg Address in kindergarten is a performance trick.

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
.

......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Let’s begin by acknowledging that there are some undeniable admissions-related advantages to attending a private school. At the top of that list is the fact that counselors in public high schools report spending only 22% of their time on college-related counseling while their private school counterparts spend a far healthier 55%. Moreover, three-quarters of private high schools employ a counselor who is solely dedicated to matters of college admissions, something very few public schools are able to offer.

Unable or unwilling to change how they do things?

Roughly 95% of non-parochial private high school grads go on to four-year post secondary institutions compared with 49% of public school grads. And it’s also worth keeping in mind that only 10% of children in the U.S. attend private school, yet make up a disproportionately high percentage of accepted students at elite colleges.

Furthermore, kids from public schools drop out more than kids who went to private school.

Thirty percent of college and university students drop out after their first year. Half never graduate, and college completion rates in the United States have been stalled for more than three decades.

Still think you are doing a good job unkotare?

 

[sealybobo]

I just asked Google if writing cursive helps with math ability. No, not math, but language abilities, apparently..... of course, since you are writing language, it makes perfect sense that part of the brain is being stimulated. Interesting. From wiki:

How is cursive good for the brain?
The Benefits of Cursive Go Beyond Writing. ... In fact, learning to write in cursive is shown to improve brain development in the areas of thinking, language and working memory. Cursive handwriting stimulates brain synapses and synchronicity between the left and right hemispheres, something absent from printing and typing.Apr 30, 2013

Every kid should have an Etch a Sketch

 

[Vastator]

When did this weird paranoia about intelligence and education begin?

It really is okay to be intelligent and educated. Really.

I can't believe I just said that.
.

So in your estimation, being "intelligent and educated" means spewing back, literally, a bunch of random sounds and words for which you have no idea the meaning. And could not explain to anyone if your life depended on it.

That is no where near "learning"--it is mere rote memorization. Memorization has limited used when it is a building block for other knowledge, absolutely: IOW, multiplication tables. The Gettysburg Address in kindergarten is a performance trick.

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
.

......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

 

[sealybobo]

So in your estimation, being "intelligent and educated" means spewing back, literally, a bunch of random sounds and words for which you have no idea the meaning. And could not explain to anyone if your life depended on it.

That is no where near "learning"--it is mere rote memorization. Memorization has limited used when it is a building block for other knowledge, absolutely: IOW, multiplication tables. The Gettysburg Address in kindergarten is a performance trick.

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
.

......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

 

[OldLady]

I'll say it again:

It's not about what they are actually learning at that age. It's about teaching them how to learn.

It's about exercising their minds from different directions. Giving them lots of positive feedback. Constantly. Showing them they can do it.

That's the point. That's what this is all about. I would think that's huge.

If that's not good enough for you, then sorry.
.

......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

 

[Likkmee]

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

......

And a lot of us thought we were smart because we got A's and B's in our public schools. Those A's are private school B's. And our B's are their C's.

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My grandkids have career fairs in their elementary school. K-5 meeting with colleges and military recruiters. Just far away from my days of school.

There are 8th graders writing programs for games and other cool stuff. Building bridges with popsicle sticks that can with can handle 150 lbs psi of pressure.

I don't think they are meeting with military recruiters, since recruiters are barred from talking to anyone that is not within 30 days of their 17th birthday or older.

A good recruiter would also not have time to waste on that fluff!

 

[sealybobo]

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

Working with others, writing, power point presentations, leadership skills, public speaking, reading, critical thinking.

I remember one teacher my senior year telling us about college and saving money. She was young and hip. Most of the teachers were burned out teaching the same old stuff.

 

[Unkotare]

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

Working with others, writing, power point presentations, leadership skills, public speaking, reading, critical thinking.

....

All are taught in high school.

 

[sealybobo]

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

Working with others, writing, power point presentations, leadership skills, public speaking, reading, critical thinking.

....

All are taught in high school.

No they aren't.

 

[OldLady]

That is not correct. In fact, often just the opposite is true.

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

 

[sealybobo]

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

Working with others, writing, power point presentations, leadership skills, public speaking, reading, critical thinking.

....

All are taught in high school.

1. Conversation
2. Thinking
3. How to Handle Money
4. Dating and Romantic Relationships
5. The Government
6. How to Survive Without Certain Technology.
7. Home Repair and Home Owner’s Insurance
8. Car Repair and Car Insurance
9. Personal Credit and Credit Cards.
10. Cooking.
11. The Bible.
12. Manners.
13. Guns.
14. Finding a Job.
15. Healthcare and Health Insurance
16. Self Defense.
17. Learning from Failure.
18. First Aid.
19. Time Management.
20. The Law.

 

[sealybobo]

Wrong. You public school teachers are not preparing your students for college.

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

My high school allowed me to skate by. I really paid for it in college. My first semester I got all C's and 1 C-. That's below a 2.0 so I was immediately on academic probation. I ended up quitting the wrestling team and the next semester I got a 3.8 GPA.

High school didn't prepare me to know how to study for 4-5 classes per semester. My nephews who go to a private school are already used to having lots of homework. College won't be a shock to them.

 

[OldLady]

Worse still... The still is the unforgivable crime of convincing all of these kids that they must go to college; when a majority of them flat out, aren’t college material. Which saddles the average enrollee with a debt that on average takes 20 years to pay off. If it weren’t for colleges selling worthless degrees; most of these kids would have no degree at all. And they’d be better off for it. They could pursue careers in profitable trades, and start making money where they might actually have a chance of success. Instead most teachers push kids into a mistake that can take decades to pay off. When they could have been improving their lives.
When’s the last time you heard of a kid flunking out of college? You don’t. No one turns down a paying customer...

I just showed you 30% flunk/drop out.

I'm so glad I got my college degree but it could have been done a better way. They should have a 2 year sales associates rather than make me go 4 years to a business school just to get out and be a salesperson. I didn't need all that.

They need to make better 2 year degrees too and have them be worth something to employers. So rather than make the kid try to get a 4 year degree, which is hard and a lot of work, they could just get a 2 year associates

but right now an associates is worthless pretty much in the business world. That's bullshit.

I can't argue with you too much. It's a racket that's for sure.

Most kids who want to go to college but drop out don't want to go into a trade. They don't know what they want to do. That's why they go to college. Not all but a lot. And that's why a lot drop out or get kicked out.

So that's another thing teachers are doing wrong. Their kids graduate and they don't even know what they want to do. Why does it take humans so long to mature?

Expecting teachers to decide for kids what they want to do with their lives? Is that asking a bit much? THINK about it.
School did not used to be solely for the purpose of getting a job. Now it is. This whole push for EVERYONE to go to college or trade school after high school is silly when you think about why that is. It is because high school doesn't prepare you to make a living wage and doesn't teach the skills necessary to get on in life. But instead of improving the K-12 curriculum and standards, they push two years of a trade school or four years of college that costs $$$$ instead. Makes no sense for most people.

I am intrigued as to your reasoning. What skills do you believe are needed to make a living wage that are not taught in high school?

By "living wage" I am not talking about minimum wage jobs, Admiral. Although employers in our area are crying that the high school grads coming to them can't make change or read directions or have any concept of employability soft skills, like calling in if you can't show up, and not calling in twice a week, every week.
I teach college transitions and the math skills some of these kids have (or haven't) boggle even my mind--no concept of the meaning of a decimal point, how to figure the price of something that is 25% off, how to figure simple interest on a loan. Not even sure how to attack a word problem involving nothing but subtraction.

It is input from community employers and the admissions office at the local college, all screaming, that the kids aren't prepared. And I see it as we fill the potholes for kids who somehow got that diploma for apparently nothing but showing up and breathing.

My high school allowed me to skate by. I really paid for it in college. My first semester I got all C's and 1 C-. That's below a 2.0 so I was immediately on academic probation. I ended up quitting the wrestling team and the next semester I got a 3.8 GPA.

High school didn't prepare me to know how to study for 4-5 classes per semester. My nephews who go to a private school are already used to having lots of homework. College won't be a shock to them.

I don't think your freshman experience is all that unusual, Sealy. I heard once that colleges INTENTIONALLY make freshman year difficult--those required 101 classes? They are designed to "weed out" the disinterested or the really weak students. Every campus will tell you there is an exodus from their dorms every October/November, freshmen saying they can't cope.
Good for you for toughing it out. I'm not sure that you should be blaming your public education for the tough time you had your first year. It's a big transition. Kids in private high schools (read prep schools) are of course focusing on college skills. Not everyone in public school is and many couldn't even if they wanted to. So actually, once you got your feet under you and got rid of the extracurricular distractions, you did great. Maybe you could thank your public education for THAT, too.

 

[night_son]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Seems your OP was composed with good intentions, and I personally celebrate the academic success of any child. My sole issue with it? You had to go full identity politics to make your point. Myself? I married into an East Indian Family who is by and large, on all its sides, overflowing with PhD's, Masters of Science degrees (primarily in engineering), and ER Surgeons. My point? Do the brown people in my by law family count or does your narrative venerate only poor minorities? Further, and without any knowledge of your own cultural heritage, sounds to me as if you are making your point here at the expense of non-brown folks. Just kind of has that ring to it.

 

[Mac1958]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Seems your OP was composed with good intentions, and I personally celebrate the academic success of any child. My sole issue with it? You had to go full identity politics to make your point. Myself? I married into an East Indian Family who is by and large, on all its sides, overflowing with PhD's, Masters of Science degrees (primarily in engineering), and ER Surgeons. My point? Do the brown people in my by law family count or does your narrative venerate only poor minorities? Further, and without any knowledge of your own cultural heritage, sounds to me as if you are making your point here at the expense of non-brown folks. Just kind of has that ring to it.

Well, there are elements in it that either end of the spectrum may not like.

As you can tell by some of the comments from right wingers on this thread, some feel that skin color DOES indicate a lack of intellect, as I inferred - the old fashioned bigotry of real racism. At the same time, there are many of the Left who seem more than willing to lower standards and expectations for people who have darker skin color because they fall into the Left's "oppressed victim group" status. So there's something for each end, I suppose.

For the record, I'm of mixed race, married into another mixed race family, and I'm not a fan of the way either end of the spectrum approaches either race or education.

Thanks for the civil response, by the way. Much appreciated.
.

 

[OldLady]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Seems your OP was composed with good intentions, and I personally celebrate the academic success of any child. My sole issue with it? You had to go full identity politics to make your point. Myself? I married into an East Indian Family who is by and large, on all its sides, overflowing with PhD's, Masters of Science degrees (primarily in engineering), and ER Surgeons. My point? Do the brown people in my by law family count or does your narrative venerate only poor minorities? Further, and without any knowledge of your own cultural heritage, sounds to me as if you are making your point here at the expense of non-brown folks. Just kind of has that ring to it.

Well, there are elements in it that either end of the spectrum may not like.

As you can tell by some of the comments from right wingers on this thread, some feel that skin color DOES indicate a lack of intellect, as I inferred - the old fashioned bigotry of real racism. At the same time, there are many of the Left who seem more than willing to lower standards and expectations for people who have darker skin color because they fall into the Left's "oppressed victim group" status. So there's something for each end, I suppose.

For the record, I'm of mixed race, married into another mixed race family, and I'm not a fan of the way either end of the spectrum approaches either race or education.

Thanks for the civil response, by the way. Much appreciated.
.

At the same time, there are many of the Left who seem more than willing to lower standards and expectations for people who have darker skin color because they fall into the Left's "oppressed victim group" status.
I don't recall anyone implying that in this thread, Mac

 

[night_son]

That's what I've heard, anyway.

Just got back from a program in the kindergarten class my older daughter teaches at a Charter school. A class in which they know cursive, can read books, and can do third grade math by the time the year is over. In kindergarten.

Anyway, they recited all the states and the state capitols, both as a group and individually; they answered questions on American history and geography; they recited the first part of the Gettysburg Address. And they did one mean bunny hop a couple of times in between.

This class is about 80% black or brown.

This class isn't about your skin color or how much money your parents have. It's about maintaining standards and expectations, giving kids pride in their own achievements, and holding them accountable for their actions.

I'll bet we all know this. Some just refuse to admit it.
.

Seems your OP was composed with good intentions, and I personally celebrate the academic success of any child. My sole issue with it? You had to go full identity politics to make your point. Myself? I married into an East Indian Family who is by and large, on all its sides, overflowing with PhD's, Masters of Science degrees (primarily in engineering), and ER Surgeons. My point? Do the brown people in my by law family count or does your narrative venerate only poor minorities? Further, and without any knowledge of your own cultural heritage, sounds to me as if you are making your point here at the expense of non-brown folks. Just kind of has that ring to it.

Well, there are elements in it that either end of the spectrum may not like.

As you can tell by some of the comments from right wingers on this thread, some feel that skin color DOES indicate a lack of intellect, as I inferred - the old fashioned bigotry of real racism. At the same time, there are many of the Left who seem more than willing to lower standards and expectations for people who have darker skin color because they fall into the Left's "oppressed victim group" status. So there's something for each end, I suppose.

For the record, I'm of mixed race, married into another mixed race family, and I'm not a fan of the way either end of the spectrum approaches either race or education.

Thanks for the civil response, by the way. Much appreciated.
.

The point I wished to make? Let's say we have three different students in a given class who are all "brown". Johnny, Dennis and Phil. Why not focus on the fact that each of them possesses their own unique academic potential as individual human children, rather than classify them into a racial unit (being brown) and then quantify their performance as that group rating or as a measuring stick of their potential performance? That's all I'm saying. And also that it's a sad damned day in this world if people actually think skin color or heritage lessens an individual's academic potential. Cultures and ideologies do this to our children (stunt their potential) surely, but never racial/ethnic origin.