Minnesota United Methodist approve gay rights resolution

[Joz]

I think there is nothing wrong with questioning religious dogma. Mocking or bashing is a different thing all together.
I total disagree with your last statement. You don't need to learn those things through a god-abiding life or voluntary servitude. Those things have been taught in many religions, not just Christianity. Also, in this day and age, some people believe in those things without any kind of religious conviction.

There is NOTHING good that does not come from God. Therefore, when a person behaves correctly or are taught these things, somewhere, in the past, is a Christian-ethic basis.

 

[Avatar4321]

Bull. You know anyone who's been prohibited from entering a Church and praying? From practicing their religion in their own home or with other members of their congregation or even setting up parochial schools to educate their children?

Not mixing government and religion is NOT persecution.


*******

Eightball:

A question for ya.... where in Newton's theory of gravity does he mention Christian Dogma?

And, if you know your medieval history, you know that the Dark Ages were a time when people were prohibited from exploring science upon pain of punishment by Church authorities. It wasn't until the Renaissance, with its freer, more secular society when science flourished and democratic principles began to take root.

Youve obviously not been attacked by a mob for your religious beliefs. I have.

 

[Dr Grump]

There is NOTHING good that does not come from God. Therefore, when a person behaves correctly or are taught these things, somewhere, in the past, is a Christian-ethic basis.

Obviously I disagree with that first sentence. I think it is up to the individual. As for being a Christian-based ethic, I think Hindus and Bhuddists would disagree with you....

 

[Joz]

Obviously I disagree with that first sentence. I think it is up to the individual. As for being a Christian-based ethic, I think Hindus and Bhuddists would disagree with you....

As with many others.

 

[jillian]

Youve obviously not been attacked by a mob for your religious beliefs. I have.

Er...you might want to try that again, actually. (Not me personally, btw) I think the only way to protect our own religious freedom is to vigorously defend everyone else's freedoms.

May I be nosy and ask under what circumstances you were attacked?

 

[MissileMan]

There is NOTHING good that does not come from God. Therefore, when a person behaves correctly or are taught these things, somewhere, in the past, is a Christian-ethic basis.

What a crock of self-aggrandizing hooey! Ethical behavior is not unique to Christians.

 

[Joz]

What a crock of self-aggrandizing hooey! Ethical behavior is not unique to Christians.

Call it, or me what you may. The only thing I have to back up my statements are the Bible. You not believing in it gives us little to discuss. I am curious where you think ethical behavior comes from? Surely you're not going to tell me it's from the goodness in man.

 

[dmp]

What a crock of self-aggrandizing hooey! Ethical behavior is not unique to Christians.

Does it bother you to be so connected to your Creator - should you choose to acknowledge him?

 

[jillian]

Call it, or me what you may. The only thing I have to back up my statements are the Bible. You not believing in it gives us little to discuss. I am curious where you think ethical behavior comes from? Surely you're not going to tell me it's from the goodness in man.

If your ethics are guided by the Bible, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. I think, though, that you're discounting the fact that all religions have ethical/moral guidelines regardless of whether they are Christian. Also, even if you're talking about a religious basis for morality, the Ten Commandments preceded the New Testament, and by definition, Christianity, by more than a few thousand years.

Morality can be guided by both the philosophical/secular as well as by the religious. Our own Constitution has its roots in great secular minds like De Toqueville, Locke, Paine and Jefferson and no where in our Constitution is the Creator mentioned.

 

[MissileMan]

Call it, or me what you may. The only thing I have to back up my statements are the Bible. You not believing in it gives us little to discuss. I am curious where you think ethical behavior comes from? Surely you're not going to tell me it's from the goodness in man.

Never heard of the laws of Hammurabi?

As for the goodness of man, I believe that there are certain universal ethics, especially those dealing with life and property, found in nearly every civilization, even those not influenced by Christianity.

 

[MissileMan]

Does it bother you to be so connected to your Creator - should you choose to acknowledge him?

My creators are deceased.

 

[Joz]

If your ethics are guided by the Bible, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. I think, though, that you're discounting the fact that all religions have ethical/moral guidelines regardless of whether they are Christian. Also, even if you're talking about a religious basis for morality, the Ten Commandments preceded the New Testament, and by definition, Christianity, by more than a few thousand years.

Morality can be guided by both the philosophical/secular as well as by the religious. Our own Constitution has its roots in great secular minds like De Toqueville, Locke, Paine and Jefferson and no where in our Constitution is the Creator mentioned.

As I stated, I can only go on what the Bible tells me. And unless you believe in God, then we have little to discuss.
I'll leave you with this.
Isaiah 48:8, Man was born into sin
Ephesians 4:18, His understanding is darkened
Jeremiah 17:9 His heart is full of evil

I will reiterate, goodness comes from God.

 

[jillian]

As I stated, I can only go on what the Bible tells me. And unless you believe in God, then we have little to discuss.
I'll leave you with this.
Isaiah 48:8, Man was born into sin
Ephesians 4:18, His understanding is darkened
Jeremiah 17:9 His heart is full of evil

I will reiterate, goodness comes from God.

I don't think I have ever said I don't believe. In fact, I know I said that I do, just not in your belief system. One can believe that all of our gifts come from our Creator, but one shouldn't assume that other religions or people with no religion at all have no moral grounding and I gave examples. If you don't want to discuss that further, fair enough.

 

[Joz]

Never heard of the laws of Hammurabi?

As for the goodness of man, I believe that there are certain universal ethics, especially those dealing with life and property, found in nearly every civilization, even those not influenced by Christianity.

By the word of the Lord were the heavens made....For He spake it and it was done....Psalm 33:6,9
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else. Isaiah 45:18

 

[Joz]

I don't think I have ever said I don't believe. ..... but one shouldn't assume that other religions or people with no religion at all have no moral grounding.....

First, I apologize.
So, where does morality come from?

 

[MissileMan]

By the word of the Lord were the heavens made....For He spake it and it was done....Psalm 33:6,9
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else. Isaiah 45:18

This is contradicted by the existence of all of the non-Judeo-Christian theologies and civilizations around the world.

 

[dmp]

This is contradicted by the existence of all of the non-Judeo-Christian theologies and civilizations around the world.

They are wrong.

 

[jillian]

First, I apologize.
So, where does morality come from?

Apology accepted, of course.

As I said, morality comes from both philosophy AND religion. Though I've known some very moral religious folk of all religious persuasions, I've also known some pretty immoral folk of all religious persuasions. I've also known some very moral non-believers. That comes from upbringing and life experience.

 

[MissileMan]

They are wrong.

Of course they are...but the more important question (one which I'm confident you'll label too difficult to answer) is this:
If the bible is correct, and the Judeo-Christian god is the only god that has ever existed, how did all these billions of people wind up worshipping something else?

 

[dmp]

Of course they are...but the more important question (one which I'm confident you'll label too difficult to answer) is this:
If the bible is correct, and the Judeo-Christian god is the only god that has ever existed, how did all these billions of people wind up worshipping something else?

Ignorance or Rebellion.