Minimum wage is already “livable”

[Ray From Cleveland]

Slave labor and you loved it.

Yes I did because it taught me the value of a dollar as well as how to work, something younger people today don't learn. There was very little I could do to help my father, but he took me out for that reason.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

My nephew is in his mid 30's. Until a year ago he was living with his mother to repay college loans. And mind you my sister and her ex also took out loans to pay some of that for him. If not for a very wealthy Uncle of his passing away, he probably would have had to live with my sister until his early 40's.

Yes, he has a Masters, but a lot of younger people are in his shoes.

It should not be this way, getting "ahead" should not put you in debt/servitude for 20 to 30 years. but somehow we have been programed to think this is the way it should be

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I was a masonry contractor but before I was an electronnics tech and manged resturaunts in the early and mid twenties. Yes, there are lazy people and yes you should have the mentality of mind yer own fucking business.

If we all minded our own business, there would be no discussion boards like this now would there?

What should I do, come here and make stupid jokes nobody else thinks are funny?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It should not be this way, getting "ahead" should not put you in debt/servitude for 20 to 30 years. but somehow we have been programed to think this is the way it should be

Like I said earlier, no reason to attend college right from high school. And certainly working three or four years helps you mature to make the right choices in life while at the same time allows you to build funds in which to attend college without that massive debt.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Like I said earlier, no reason to attend college right from high school. And certainly working three or four years helps you mature to make the right choices in life while at the same time allows you to build funds in which to attend college without that massive debt.

yeah, working 3 or 4 years at minimum wage is a great way to save 20 to 80 grand....

 

[Lisa558]

I never insulted you I stated the facts, you are the one looking to insult someone you have no idea about. You really don't know shit because you have never lived it. You have never walked a mile in their shoes, at least you don't claim to be a Christian.

What’s the Christian stuff about? I don’t see where my religion is relevant.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

yeah, working 3 or 4 years at minimum wage is a great way to save 20 to 80 grand....

Why would they have to work for minimum wage?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why would they have to work for minimum wage?

because that is what is offered unskilled, uneducated, no experience people like those coming right out of high school

 

[Lisa558]

We have seen your lack of compassion and condescending blame the victim attitude towards the poor

No. You’ve seen me say that low-paid workers who want to earn more should take advantage of Pell Grants and acquire a job skill. I know they can do it, because I’ve seen it done many times before. THAT would benefit them much more than the left wingers who say, “here….we’ll give you more money, poor thing.”

 

[Lisa558]

We have seen your lack of compassion and condescending blame the victim attitude towards the poor

And P.S. Where’s your compassion for the small business owner who will lose his business, after years of sacrifice and hard work and risk, and after hanging on by a thread through COVID shutdowns, because you want him to pay more than marker rate to people with minimal job skills?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

because that is what is offered unskilled, uneducated, no experience people like those coming right out of high school

Yes but if you read up on minimum wage workers most don't work minimum after six months with the same company. And not every starter job is minimum wage. For instance Walmart, Target, even McDonald's all start out far above minimum wage in most places, and in some cases double of minimum wage.

You just don't like my idea because it's pragmatic and would work very well.

 

[Lisa558]

Like I said earlier, no reason to attend college right from high school. And certainly working three or four years helps you mature to make the right choices in life while at the same time allows you to build funds in which to attend college without that massive debt.

I’m all for that. In fact, I think it would be a good idea to require every 18-year-old to live at home and work a full-time job for one year. She would be able to save enough to almost cover the first year of college, and he would appreciate the opportunity to learn a valuable career after having just spent a year doing a “low-skill” job. Bet we’d have fewer “General Studies” majors.

 

[rightwinger]

And P.S. Where’s your compassion for the small business owner who will lose his business, after years of sacrifice and hard work and risk, and after hanging on by a thread through COVID shutdowns, because you want him to pay more than marker rate to people with minimal job skills?

Yes
I have “sympathy” for the small business owner who has benefitted from a minimum wage frozen for 12 years and who received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017

Where is your compassion for low wage workers who must go into debt to afford college or the taxpayers who must subsidize low wage workers with food stamps, housing subsidies and healthcare because employers refuse to pay a livable wage

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And P.S. Where’s your compassion for the small business owner who will lose his business, after years of sacrifice and hard work and risk, and after hanging on by a thread through COVID shutdowns, because you want him to pay more than marker rate to people with minimal job skills?

The "market rate" is set by the market, if people are paying over the current market rate, it becomes the market rate.

Which is better for the small business owner after years of sacrifice and hard work and risk, to pay people more so they have employees or to not have employees?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Yes but if you read up on minimum wage workers most don't work minimum after six months with the same company. And not every starter job is minimum wage. For instance Walmart, Target, even McDonald's all start out far above minimum wage in most places, and in some cases double of minimum wage.

You just don't like my idea because it's pragmatic and would work very well.

I think your idea is just dandy in a perfect world where people make enough in 3 to 4 years to pay for 80 grand worth of college. just not sure what world that is

 

[Dragonlady]

C’mon. People on this forum have said that ad infinitum. I’m not going to do a search.

So you tell me: what should the “livable” lifestyle of the kid who works the drive-though at McDonalds consist of?

In other words, why should I have to prove a right wing talking point which is based on a lot of racist and classist lies about how being poor in America is so fucking easy. There are none so condescending as white middle class right wingers who know that the poor are responsible for their poverty, and that they are lazy and stupid, and that's why they're poor.

I also note, that NONE of the figures you've used to prove how fiscally irresponsible the working poor really are, have any basis in reality. For example: $40 for 1/3 share of utilities for a 3 bedroom house. Those utilities average $400 per month, in the US. Bus pass to work $30. Transit passes in New York are $127 per month.

These are average rents for a one bedroom apartment in the USA, by State. $725 per month was the cheapest average rent for a one bedroom apartment in the USA. Average utilities are $240 per month for an apartment. That makes total housing cost $965 per month. Add in another $130 per month for transportation, and all of a sudden, your minimum wage worker bringing home $1800 per month is spending more than half their income keeping a roof over their heads and going to work. The utility costs I quoted don't include WIFI, phone or cable - another $100 per month, minimum. Your budget didn't include clothing, or medical. Nor did you indicate how they were supposed to furnish their household. Even second hand stores, have prices.

And yes, everyone who works a 40 hour week deserves two weeks of paid vacation, like every other first world country mandates for its workers.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I’m all for that. In fact, I think it would be a good idea to require every 18-year-old to live at home and work a full-time job for one year. She would be able to save enough to almost cover the first year of college, and he would appreciate the opportunity to learn a valuable career after having just spent a year doing a “low-skill” job. Bet we’d have fewer “General Studies” majors.

How about 3 to 4 years of National Service for everyone after high school?

 

[Lisa558]

Yes
I have “sympathy” for the small business owner who has benefitted from a minimum wage frozen for 12 years and who received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017

Where is your compassion for low wage workers who must go into debt to afford college or the taxpayers who must subsidize low wage workers with food stamps, housing subsidies and healthcare because employers refuse to pay a livable wage

Yup. No sympathy for hard-working business owners - only contempt.

This is why liberals will destroy this country. They are hostile to those of us who started a business, grew it with a lot of time and hard work (and talent, too, but I don’t want to brag) to the point we could have five employees, including professional-level ones earning good salaries, while making excuses for people who are flipping hamburgers for years who refuse to take a class - paid for by taxpayers - to increase their earning potential.

A country where there is anger for business owners and excuses for low-earners who aren’t motivated to better themselves is a country that will fall. And that is seemingly what liberals want.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’m all for that. In fact, I think it would be a good idea to require every 18-year-old to live at home and work a full-time job for one year. She would be able to save enough to almost cover the first year of college, and he would appreciate the opportunity to learn a valuable career after having just spent a year doing a “low-skill” job. Bet we’d have fewer “General Studies” majors.

Even if you are going to live your life out of a brief case, it's not a bad idea to get your hands dirty first.

My father was on a job to build an addition. He asked the supervisor if the trash company was going to remove the container from the trash compactor of the company. The supervisor told my father the trash compactor is staying where it's at. My father explained that if they build the addition as planned, there is no way for the driver to pickup that compactor container. The supervisor looked at it and agreed.

They called the architect of the project and he was screaming on the phone insisting his plans were perfect. They told him to come down and they'll show him it's not. In the meantime, they called the garbage company to send a truck down, and my father and his coworkers laid block where the addition was going to be. The architect got there still screaming that the uneducated construction people were wasting his time. The driver tried to get to the trash container, but couldn't because you need twice the room of the truck to pull the container up.

The architect left the way he came in, pissed as ever.

They didn't teach him things like that in college. You need to see how the truck picks up the container to know these things. So working in industry certainly helps a lot.

 

[Lisa558]

How about 3 to 4 years of National Service for everyone after high school?

Not sure what you mean by National Service, by if it’s military, I’m all for that. Israel does that with its high school grads.