Minimum wage argument

[candycorn]

You have not given enough information to answer the question.. but like a typical progressive, you just want an arbitrary number than either makes you feel good or that you can use to mocjk the person who posted it

Not playing your silly reindeer game

A guy installs a desktop computer. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor, CPU... On a desk.

What more information do you need?

It was in Scottsdale, Arizona lets say.

And just How in the hell are we supposed to know the computer repair business climate in Scottsdale?

Are you saying that on a monday in March he may get paid X but on a monday in August, he may get paid Y depending on how many people ITT put into the job market?

 

[candycorn]

You have not given enough information to answer the question.. but like a typical progressive, you just want an arbitrary number than either makes you feel good or that you can use to mocjk the person who posted it

Not playing your silly reindeer game

A guy installs a desktop computer. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor, CPU... On a desk.

What more information do you need?

It was in Scottsdale, Arizona lets say.

Jesus christ are you dense... How saturated is the skill in the workforce? How much does it cost to train... is the person experienced or in need of training? What is the going rate for the install in that area to determine rate you can pay for labor, travel, equipment, tools, etc?

You are simply looking for an arbitrary number when the REALITY (you know, the thing you progressive don't like to live in) is much different.... My salary here in the Dulles tech corridor is much different than it would be in DesMoines, or Seattle, or Bangor... it is much different than it was when I was an innovator in the field than it is for engineers coming in now... It is much different now as a junior executive when there are many on the market thanks to the economic downturn.... You simply ignore the fact that there are MANY factors for how much you pay for a job... and it does not take away from the fact that a wage is negotiated between the employer and the employee(or potential employee) and if one does not like it, they have the freedom to leave, look elsewhere, change what they are looking for, change what skill is being offered, etc...

You are simply obtuse

Just asking how much you think the job is worth....

Ball park it. Would you, please?

 

[candycorn]

Company B? Not sure what you're getting at. The determination of how much a given service or product is worth is relative and entirely subjective. There are as many answers to that question as there are people. Ultimately it's up to the employer and employee coming to an agreement on the wage. If they can't agree, they are both free (or at least ought to be) to make other arrangements.

Oh..Company B was the "someone else" I thought you were referring to.

Ahh.. no. "Someone else" is just whoever it is you're hoping will pay you. How much your services are worth to them is entirely dependent on their situation. If they don't need what you have to offer, it's worth nothing (to them). There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value' when it comes to market worth.

So if my company and the other health systems in Arizona got together and said, "We're not going to pay RN's more than $10 an hour" you'd be okay with that? If not, why not?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

A guy installs a desktop computer. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor, CPU... On a desk.

What more information do you need?

It was in Scottsdale, Arizona lets say.

And just How in the hell are we supposed to know the computer repair business climate in Scottsdale?

Are you saying that on a monday in March he may get paid X but on a monday in August, he may get paid Y depending on how many people ITT put into the job market?

Aaaaaand here come the reindeer games.
I'll tell you what. Why dont you go online and do a job search for the position. Then you'll know.
Because thats what the market will bear in Scottsdale.
My God you're dense.

 

[dblack]

Oh..Company B was the "someone else" I thought you were referring to.

Ahh.. no. "Someone else" is just whoever it is you're hoping will pay you. How much your services are worth to them is entirely dependent on their situation. If they don't need what you have to offer, it's worth nothing (to them). There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value' when it comes to market worth.

So if my company and the other health systems in Arizona got together and said, "We're not going to pay RN's more than $10 an hour" you'd be okay with that? If not, why not?

Well, I didn't say anything like that, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Do you understand what I'm saying about how questions of what someone "should" be paid are moot? It depends on who's paying them. This is all really a question of who gets to make these kinds of value judgments - the person paying the tab, or government.

 

[candycorn]

Ahh.. no. "Someone else" is just whoever it is you're hoping will pay you. How much your services are worth to them is entirely dependent on their situation. If they don't need what you have to offer, it's worth nothing (to them). There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value' when it comes to market worth.

So if my company and the other health systems in Arizona got together and said, "We're not going to pay RN's more than $10 an hour" you'd be okay with that? If not, why not?

Well, I didn't say anything like that, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Do you understand what I'm saying about how questions of what someone "should" be paid are moot? It depends on who's paying them. This is all really a question of who gets to make these kinds of value judgments - the person paying the tab, or government.

You answered your own question....

If my employer and the other 4 systems in the State wanted to get together and make the agreement on $10 an hour...would you be okay with that? If not, please tell me why not. Afterall, they are doing what is best for their company, shareholders, etc... right?

 

[candycorn]

And just How in the hell are we supposed to know the computer repair business climate in Scottsdale?

Are you saying that on a monday in March he may get paid X but on a monday in August, he may get paid Y depending on how many people ITT put into the job market?

Aaaaaand here come the reindeer games.
I'll tell you what. Why dont you go online and do a job search for the position. Then you'll know.
Because thats what the market will bear in Scottsdale.
My God you're dense.

If asking for real world metrics to be applied to your agrument is too much, I apologize. Some can hang, some fold.

 

[dblack]

So if my company and the other health systems in Arizona got together and said, "We're not going to pay RN's more than $10 an hour" you'd be okay with that? If not, why not?

Well, I didn't say anything like that, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Do you understand what I'm saying about how questions of what someone "should" be paid are moot? It depends on who's paying them. This is all really a question of who gets to make these kinds of value judgments - the person paying the tab, or government.

You answered your own question....

If my employer and the other 4 systems in the State wanted to get together and make the agreement on $10 an hour...would you be okay with that? If not, please tell me why not. Afterall, they are doing what is best for their company, shareholders, etc... right?

That's not really on topic. We can argue about collusion laws if you like, but let's do it in another thread. I'm for, or against them, depending on how they're framed.

Anyway, you still don't seem to grasp my point. What someone else "should" be paid is none of my business (nor yours, nor the government's). It's an agreement between two people, nothing more. Neither should be forced into, or prohibited from, such an agreement by the state.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Are you saying that on a monday in March he may get paid X but on a monday in August, he may get paid Y depending on how many people ITT put into the job market?

Aaaaaand here come the reindeer games.
I'll tell you what. Why dont you go online and do a job search for the position. Then you'll know.
Because thats what the market will bear in Scottsdale.
My God you're dense.

If asking for real world metrics to be applied to your agrument is too much, I apologize. Some can hang, some fold.

Describe this so called "real world metric" genius.
This ought to be good.....
Just so you know. Anyone with half a brain understands how salaries and wages are determined. So where does that leave you?

 

[candycorn]

Aaaaaand here come the reindeer games.
I'll tell you what. Why dont you go online and do a job search for the position. Then you'll know.
Because thats what the market will bear in Scottsdale.
My God you're dense.

If asking for real world metrics to be applied to your agrument is too much, I apologize. Some can hang, some fold.

Describe this so called "real world metric" genius.
This ought to be good.....
Just so you know. Anyone with half a brain understands how salaries and wages are determined. So where does that leave you?

How much do you think the job is worth; how much should a tech get paid for installing a computer. Simple question. See if you can answer without insulting yourself.

 

[candycorn]

Well, I didn't say anything like that, and I'm not sure how it's relevant. Do you understand what I'm saying about how questions of what someone "should" be paid are moot? It depends on who's paying them. This is all really a question of who gets to make these kinds of value judgments - the person paying the tab, or government.

You answered your own question....

If my employer and the other 4 systems in the State wanted to get together and make the agreement on $10 an hour...would you be okay with that? If not, please tell me why not. Afterall, they are doing what is best for their company, shareholders, etc... right?

That's not really on topic. We can argue about collusion laws if you like, but let's do it in another thread. I'm for, or against them, depending on how they're framed.

Anyway, you still don't seem to grasp my point. What someone else "should" be paid is none of my business (nor yours, nor the government's). It's an agreement between two people, nothing more. Neither should be forced into, or prohibited from, such an agreement by the state.

Ahh...so if it benefits the employer, you're willing to hear it. If it benefits the employee...it's needless governemtn intervention. I see.

 

[tooAlive]

So how much would it be?

You have not given enough information to answer the question.. but like a typical progressive, you just want an arbitrary number than either makes you feel good or that you can use to mocjk the person who posted it

Not playing your silly reindeer game

A guy installs a desktop computer. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor, CPU... On a desk.

What more information do you need?

It was in Scottsdale, Arizona lets say.

From the looks of it you need a lot more information.

First of all, a CPU does not go on a desk. The CPU is relatively small chip that goes installed on the motherboard. The motherboard sits inside a case. Inside the case you will also find a power supply, hard drive(s), ram, possibly a dedicated video card(s), optical drive(s), a heatsink to cool the processor (CPU), and added fans to move hot air outside the case.

They are all connected to the motherboard.

Not everyone knows how to connect them, or how to troubleshoot a machine that isn't working. So I'd assume that those that do know would charge more for their knowledge and expertise.

Personally, I'd charge in the neighborhood of ~$100+ an hour.

 

[dblack]

You answered your own question....

If my employer and the other 4 systems in the State wanted to get together and make the agreement on $10 an hour...would you be okay with that? If not, please tell me why not. Afterall, they are doing what is best for their company, shareholders, etc... right?

That's not really on topic. We can argue about collusion laws if you like, but let's do it in another thread. I'm for, or against them, depending on how they're framed.

Anyway, you still don't seem to grasp my point. What someone else "should" be paid is none of my business (nor yours, nor the government's). It's an agreement between two people, nothing more. Neither should be forced into, or prohibited from, such an agreement by the state.

Ahh...so if it benefits the employer, you're willing to hear it. If it benefits the employee...it's needless governemtn intervention. I see.

What are you talking about?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Why cant candycornhole understand that there are a lot of variables that come into play when trying to determine what something may cost in a given area?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Seeing as how the private sector has been successfully driving down wages in the past several decades (with big help from the financial collapse... hmmm, coincidence?)... what do you expect workers to do? Just bend over and take it until they are making wages on the same level with third world shitholes? Yes, that is exactly what corporations and the conservatives that love them want.

ALL private industries are colluding to hold wages down. A job that was rightfully worth $20/hr in 2007 is commonly now being fought over by desperate people for $10 or less - and with less benefits / more responsibility.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speed-up-american-workers-long-hours

 

[DiamondDave]

Why cant candycornhole understand that there are a lot of variables that come into play when trying to determine what something may cost in a given area?

BINGO...

The answer though, is because he is too caught up in being a winger.. trying to put out a zinger for show, without any understanding of the subject whatsoever

 

[DiamondDave]

Seeing as how the private sector has been successfully driving down wages in the past several decades (with big help from the financial collapse... hmmm, coincidence?)... what do you expect workers to do? Just bend over and take it until they are making wages on the same level with third world shitholes? Yes, that is exactly what corporations and the conservatives that love them want.

ALL private industries are colluding to hold wages down. A job that was rightfully worth $20/hr in 2007 is commonly now being fought over by desperate people for $10 or less - and with less benefits / more responsibility.

 

[tooAlive]

Seeing as how the private sector has been successfully driving down wages in the past several decades (with big help from the financial collapse... hmmm, coincidence?)... what do you expect workers to do? Just bend over and take it until they are making wages on the same level with third world shitholes? Yes, that is exactly what corporations and the conservatives that love them want.

ALL private industries are colluding to hold wages down. A job that was rightfully worth $20/hr in 2007 is commonly now being fought over by desperate people for $10 or less - and with less benefits / more responsibility.

All Work and No Pay: The Great Speedup | Mother Jones

Then move to the closest socialist country. Problem solved.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Then move to the closest socialist country. Problem solved.

Nah, we just need to fix this one. Another area where corporations have way too much control over our government.

And how would that solve the problem? You WANT workers here making $5 a week?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Dave, no not a conspiracy. A factual, researchable truth, but not a conspiracy.