Military Industrial Complex

[Carol]

The US has become what it fought against, and US citizens are not different from Germans. The culture that made is different is a forgotten past.

So you are saying we are Fascists?
That we are an immoral country?
And it is because Ike changed the focus of education from the classics to science and math?

Life is a complicated voyage for us as individuals and life as a nation is even more complicated. The immoral behavior that is exhibited today traces its roots in part to the irresponsibility of parents to teach their children values. It is the responsibility of the parent to instill in children what is right and wrong not the school system. That is where society has failed.

Note: Why are you complaining about dial up. You asked for it!

I changed my dial up server and I am happy again. When Juno first started many years ago, and well before DSL, it was top of the line. Since then it has gone down the tubes. The dial up I have now isn't as good as DSL, but for the price it is a good deal, and a whole lot better than Juno. Besides if I bought a car that was a lemon, I wouldn't have the right to complain about it? Maybe you are a little hard on people, and little perfectionist? I am betting you are under 50?

I think we should discuss fascism in a different thread, because I really want this thread to focus on education. However, economics is essential to any nation's plan for education. Fascism begins in Italy, right? It begins as a labor movement that has nothing to do with the New World Order, right? During the Great Depression many people thought fascism was the answer to our economic problems. Are you working with this information when you question if I am saying the US is fascist? If so, then we can address Roosevelt asking Hoover to help design Big Government, and how both the Republican and Democratic party worked together to bring about this change, and all the warnings that giving government these new powers was a threat to our way of life. Is this the discussion you want to have?

 

[Carol]

But...........

That is a good map Douger. Kind of embarrassing though. It says a whole lot about education and intellect in the US.

God Bless America and protect us from Satan and our other enemies.

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzbsMc_seQY&feature=related]YouTube - ‪CIA Coup in Guatemala 1954 PART 2 of "A Coup Made in America"‬‎[/ame]

 

[zzzz]

The US has become what it fought against, and US citizens are not different from Germans. The culture that made is different is a forgotten past.

So you are saying we are Fascists?
That we are an immoral country?
And it is because Ike changed the focus of education from the classics to science and math?

Life is a complicated voyage for us as individuals and life as a nation is even more complicated. The immoral behavior that is exhibited today traces its roots in part to the irresponsibility of parents to teach their children values. It is the responsibility of the parent to instill in children what is right and wrong not the school system. That is where society has failed.

Note: Why are you complaining about dial up. You asked for it!

I changed my dial up server and I am happy again. When Juno first started many years ago, and well before DSL, it was top of the line. Since then it has gone down the tubes. The dial up I have now isn't as good as DSL, but for the price it is a good deal, and a whole lot better than Juno. Besides if I bought a car that was a lemon, I wouldn't have the right to complain about it? Maybe you are a little hard on people, and little perfectionist? I am betting you are under 50?

I think we should discuss fascism in a different thread, because I really want this thread to focus on education. However, economics is essential to any nation's plan for education. Fascism begins in Italy, right? It begins as a labor movement that has nothing to do with the New World Order, right? During the Great Depression many people thought fascism was the answer to our economic problems. Are you working with this information when you question if I am saying the US is fascist? If so, then we can address Roosevelt asking Hoover to help design Big Government, and how both the Republican and Democratic party worked together to bring about this change, and all the warnings that giving government these new powers was a threat to our way of life. Is this the discussion you want to have?

Fascism is an interesting concept and signs of Fascism are arising in American politics today but no one will label it as such.

But what did we fight against in WWII? We fought against blatant aggression by nations that sought world domination. You say "The US has become what it fought against..." so it implies that we are a nation that seeks to dominate the world by naked aggression. Now some could say that is what we are today and what we sought to do after Korea. But this discussion is off subject to your thread.


You would have lost the bet though. And I am not a perfectionist. Human beings are not perfect, so to expect perfection from people and what they create is to expect the impossible.

 

[lizzie]

.
lizzie, thank you for verifying the change in public education. We used the classics to transmit a culture. Transmitting that culture was the sole purpose of public education, until we mobilized for the first world war, and added vocational training to appease industry, and better meet changing national defense needs.

But you stated earlier that our education changed in 1958, well after both world wars were fought. National defense did become the focus, but most likely as a result of the world wars, rather than in preparation for them.

.
The concept of morals comes from ancient Athens. It means to know good manners and "the law". Now by "the law" means universal law of cause and effect. Some is moral because good things result from it and something is immoral because bad things result from it.

I don’t personally subscribe to the belief that the ends justify the means. This is one of the tactics used by socialists and Marxists alike. Morals are primarily subjective and personal.

.
Let me clarify. The Germans were very much like Americans, but it was the Prussians that militarized them, and now the same thing has been done to the US. At the end of war, the US brought home ever German who could advance our military and CIA, that they could.

I am not supportive of national aggression and support strong defense as opposed to offense, however strong defense does require that we maintain the best knowledge and skills available.
　
　
　

 

[Carol]

So you are saying we are Fascists?
That we are an immoral country?
And it is because Ike changed the focus of education from the classics to science and math?

Life is a complicated voyage for us as individuals and life as a nation is even more complicated. The immoral behavior that is exhibited today traces its roots in part to the irresponsibility of parents to teach their children values. It is the responsibility of the parent to instill in children what is right and wrong not the school system. That is where society has failed.

Note: Why are you complaining about dial up. You asked for it!

I changed my dial up server and I am happy again. When Juno first started many years ago, and well before DSL, it was top of the line. Since then it has gone down the tubes. The dial up I have now isn't as good as DSL, but for the price it is a good deal, and a whole lot better than Juno. Besides if I bought a car that was a lemon, I wouldn't have the right to complain about it? Maybe you are a little hard on people, and little perfectionist? I am betting you are under 50?

I think we should discuss fascism in a different thread, because I really want this thread to focus on education. However, economics is essential to any nation's plan for education. Fascism begins in Italy, right? It begins as a labor movement that has nothing to do with the New World Order, right? During the Great Depression many people thought fascism was the answer to our economic problems. Are you working with this information when you question if I am saying the US is fascist? If so, then we can address Roosevelt asking Hoover to help design Big Government, and how both the Republican and Democratic party worked together to bring about this change, and all the warnings that giving government these new powers was a threat to our way of life. Is this the discussion you want to have?

Fascism is an interesting concept and signs of Fascism are arising in American politics today but no one will label it as such.

But what did we fight against in WWII? We fought against blatant aggression by nations that sought world domination. You say "The US has become what it fought against..." so it implies that we are a nation that seeks to dominate the world by naked aggression. Now some could say that is what we are today and what we sought to do after Korea. But this discussion is off subject to your thread.


You would have lost the bet though. And I am not a perfectionist. Human beings are not perfect, so to expect perfection from people and what they create is to expect the impossible.

Oh my goodness, thank you. Things go so much better when people attempt to have reasonable conversation. Please, now let me share with you something from the 1917 National Education Association Conference.

In my introduction I said I have research the history of education. This started simply as a desire to have a list of American values that once every child was taught, and get a better understanding of my grandmother's generation of teachers, idea of defending democracy in the classroom. Like she died, and I felt a terrible loss, realizing she could no longer do what she spent her life doing. Anyway, I went to a second hand book store, and walked out with a few books. Now my book collection is so large my family makes fun of me, and I am obsessed with telling others what I have found.

So this is what a teacher Sara H. Fahey had to say, she was quoting a seer and poet of India, Tagore, when she explained our enemy.

"Whatever their efficiency, such great organizations are so impersonal that they bear down on the individual lives of the people like a hydraulic press whose action is completely impersonal and therefore completely effective in crushing out individual liberty and power".

Okay, this comes back to the reality of fascism. Fascism is a mix of things, ideology, the will of the people, the will of those with power, but mostly it is a matter of bureaucratic organization. Boring...no one wants to study bureaucratic organizational models. I minored in public policy and administration and only study for a law degree could be more boring. I will try to be as non boring as possible. "In the past, personal and political liberty to a considerable extent, depended upon governmental inefficiency. The spirit of tyranny was always more than willing; but its organization and material equipment were generally weak. Progressive science and technology have changed all this completely." Aldous Huxley

We could throw all our weapons in the ocean, and we would still living under Prussian military bureaucracy, not family order. Our early democracy, like Athens, was modeled after family order. We came from a history of Kings being as fathers to the people, and the people worshiping a father in heaven. No king, absolutely no king, ever had the power of modern bureaucracies. Kings die. Dictators die. A bureaucracy does not die, but long after those who set the policy are dead and buried, the bureaucracy goes on, and is usually much more power, and impacting many more lives, than in the beginning. These bureaucracies are like giant ameba. They assimilate whatever comes into them, and spit out what can not be assimilated. A president can only achieve what the ameba is willing to let him/her achieve.

When I say we are what we fought against, I am meaning this technologically advanced bureaucracy, modeled after Prussian military bureaucracy, has the power over us that Tocqueville envisioned when he wrote "Democracy in America" printed in 1835. We used to teach strong families were essential to a strong democracy, this is far more true then we can realize, when we do not have a good understanding of the alternative that we live with today, but we live this bureaucracy above, mindless of its organization and power and how it is effecting our lives and directing the whole world.

This thread is about the education for the Military Industrial Complex. It should not have been moved to conspiracy theory. Education is no longer transmitting the culture of our former democracy, but has intensionally prepared our young for the military industrial complex, and this is fact, not conspiracy theory. The 1958 National Defense Education Act replaced our liberal education, modeled after Athens education for well rounded, individual growth, with Germany's model of education for technology for military and industrial purpose. As Eisenhower said in his speech explaining the military industrial complex that is our new reality, the military industrial complex impacts every aspect of our lives, including our family values.

 

[Carol]

.
lizzie, thank you for verifying the change in public education. We used the classics to transmit a culture. Transmitting that culture was the sole purpose of public education, until we mobilized for the first world war, and added vocational training to appease industry, and better meet changing national defense needs.

But you stated earlier that our education changed in 1958, well after both world wars were fought. National defense did become the focus, but most likely as a result of the world wars, rather than in preparation for them.

.
The concept of morals comes from ancient Athens. It means to know good manners and "the law". Now by "the law" means universal law of cause and effect. Some is moral because good things result from it and something is immoral because bad things result from it.

I don’t personally subscribe to the belief that the ends justify the means. This is one of the tactics used by socialists and Marxists alike. Morals are primarily subjective and personal.

.
Let me clarify. The Germans were very much like Americans, but it was the Prussians that militarized them, and now the same thing has been done to the US. At the end of war, the US brought home ever German who could advance our military and CIA, that they could.

I am not supportive of national aggression and support strong defense as opposed to offense, however strong defense does require that we maintain the best knowledge and skills available.
　
　
　

Huh sometimes people's replies to what I have said make absolutely no sense to me. Such as this one

I don’t personally subscribe to the belief that the ends justify the means. This is one of the tactics used by socialists and Marxists alike. Morals are primarily subjective and personal.

What does that have to do with good manners and the laws of the universe? I do not understand how what you said, relates to what I said.

I am not supportive of national aggression and support strong defense as opposed to offense, however strong defense does require that we maintain the best knowledge and skills available.

This concern with national defense is actually off topic. This thread is about preparing our young for the military industrial complex and the the economic and social ramifications of that education. While I find some of what Thomas Sowell says about schools undermining parental authority, not compatible with what I believe is important, I do not question that public education has very strongly undermined parental authority since 1958. Sowell wrote "Inside American Education- The Decline, The Deception, The Dogma" 1993.
More revealing of the social change is, the education of teachers beginning in the 1960's that has lead to progressively dehumanizing education, dramatically increasing the reality of efficient organizations crushing individual liberty and power, and devastating our concept of morals and justice. Ever generation we get further from the culture we had, the stronger this new, efficient culture becomes. This is how we are as the enemy we defeated in two world wars.

I want to point out, especially when it comes to morals and justice, we are being reactionary and we are failing to base our judgments on scientific reasoning. College philosophy classes teaching German philosophy rather than the classics, is more important to this thread, than military matters. Your response to my statement about morals being about good manners and universal law, seems to demonstrate the education problem of which I speak.

 

[zzzz]

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition

"National Defense Education Act (NDEA), federal legislation passed in 1958 providing aid to education in the United States at all levels, public and private. NDEA was instituted primarily to stimulate the advancement of education in science, mathematics, and modern foreign languages; but it has also provided aid in other areas, including technical education, area studies, geography, English as a second language, counseling and guidance, school libraries and librarianship, and educational media centers. The act provides institutions of higher education with 90% of capital funds for low-interest loans to students. NDEA also gives federal support for improvement and change in elementary and secondary education. The act contains statutory prohibitions of federal direction, supervision, or control over the curriculum, program of instruction, administration, or personnel of any educational institution. "


The major focus of the act was to have Americans trained in the areas in which we eventually excelled; science, mathematics, and technology. Not all of these areas deal exclusively with the military. The act also contributed to the increase of people being able to afford to go to college and let’s face it, the technological explosion over the last 40 years can be tied directly to the act. There are still liberal art Colleges and Universities that teach the classics.

Where this act had a detrimental effect on the population’s morals and such still escapes me. In the 1950’s America had families, a father, mother and children and the parents taught morals and discipline. In the 1960’s the family started to disintegrate. To me this is what led to the corruption in morals today. Now saying that is being simplistic because there were other factors involved too.