MH17 was shot by Ukrainian army. New evidences by Russian Defense Ministry

[Eugene]

Stalin was a Nazi. Good to know

He never placed one nation above another. And he wasn't Russian.

We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us.

Thoughts of a person spoiled by capitalistic way of living.
If people are born, grown up and educated in ideology of truth, justice and duty to work, the model is quite workable.

 

[theHawk]

The globalists and neocons can’t refute the facts about the Ukraine and what went down with the revolution and ethnic Russians in the east voting and choosing to separate from Ukraine. They would rather Russia did nothing and have the Ukraine rule over those people against their will, or a bloody civil war.

Thank you to the Ukrainians who posted here telling the reality of what happened and how things are now.

 

[Stratford57]

The globalists and neocons can’t refute the facts about the Ukraine and what went down with the revolution and ethnic Russians in the east voting and choosing to separate from Ukraine. They would rather Russia did nothing and have the Ukraine rule over those people against their will, or a bloody civil war.

Thank you to the Ukrainians who posted here telling the reality of what happened and how things are now.

Thank you, Hawk. The truth is our only weapons at the moment. the truth is what Deep State and its puppets all over the world are so afraid of and trying to hide as much as they can. The truth is what costed lives to some people both in USA and Ukraine ("suicides" of witnesses with 2 bullets in the head started in Ukraine during Yucshenko's times).


The American Conservative, July 17 By PATRICK J. BUCHANAN

Was it U.S. complicity in the Kiev coup that ousted the elected pro-Russian regime that caused Putin to seize Crimea to hold onto Russia’s Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol?

Many Putin actions we condemn were reactions to what we did.

Russia annexed Crimea bloodlessly. But did not the U.S. bomb Serbia for 78 days to force Belgrade to surrender her cradle province of Kosovo?

How was that more moral than what Putin did in Crimea?
Trump Calls Off Cold War II

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The globalists and neocons can’t refute the facts about the Ukraine and what went down with the revolution and ethnic Russians in the east voting and choosing to separate from Ukraine. They would rather Russia did nothing and have the Ukraine rule over those people against their will, or a bloody civil war.

Thank you to the Ukrainians who posted here telling the reality of what happened and how things are now.

They would rather Russia did nothing and have the Ukraine rule over those people against their will

Suddenly Russians are concerned that people are ruled against their will? Hilarious!!!

 

[ESay]

1. How many Russian soldiers have you seen in your city/town for the last 4.5 years? I have seen NONE. But what i keep seeing is a lot of American officials in Ukrainian parliament controlling the new crooked rulers and telling us whom to love, whom to hate and whom to be with. You have to agree that in Ukraine you are "a patriot" only if you hate or harm Russia/Russians otherwise you are a traitor and you can find yourself in a "Mirotvorets" site for future murdering ( lot of people who were displayed on that site have been already killed including Ukrainian famous journalist Buzina).

Russian soldiers took over administrative buildings, Ukrainian bases, airports and so on in Crimea. It isnt denied on official level in Russia now. There has been Russian military assistance to the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine. It is denied officially but recognised even on Russian forums. Call that invasion or not, but only insane will deny Russian involvement.

 

[ESay]

2. Kiev junta so far is who is rewriting the history. According to them Ukrainians were the first people on the Earth, that's what you want me to believe, Esay? And yes, you are half-Russian too. Even Ukrainian
language is proving it: it's a combination of Russian and Polish languages.

It is a lie. Show me a textbook where it is written about the Ukrainians being the first people on the Earth.

There were several tribes in the ancient Rus which formed contemporary Russians, Ukrainians and Belirussians. Also, in forming Russian people significant role played Finnish tribes, in forming Ukrainians significant role played people of the Steppe. Various parts of Rus had its own history of forming and develompent. The unity of Rus is virtually a myth.

 

[Stratford57]

It is a lie. Show me a textbook where it is written about the Ukrainians being the first people on the Earth.

Russian soldiers took over administrative buildings, Ukrainian bases, airports and so on in Crimea. It isnt denied on official level in Russia now. There has been Russian military assistance to the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine. It is denied officially but recognised even on Russian forums. Call that invasion or not, but only insane will deny Russian involvement.

Show me at least one Russian soldier in Ukrainian streets then (may be) I'll show you a textbook. Deal?

I wonder how much Ukrainian lying Media has already damaged you since you can't see the difference between the words "invasion" and "agreement". Russians were in Crimea legally because there was an agreement (a treaty) between Russia and Ukraine about their presence in Crimea until 2042.

The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option

Kharkiv Pact - Wikipedia

 

[ESay]

Russia annexed Crimea using its Army and supplies the rebels in Eastern Ukraine with ammunition, equipment, arms and military advisors.

3. Have you been to Crimea recently? The life standards there are uncomparably better now with Russia than 4 years ago with Ukraine. People are HAPPY to be with Russia. I'm happy for them and you, Esay, seem to be be happier if Crimeans were destroyed by Ukrainian Army same or even worse than Donbass is now. BTW, the situation Ukraine would be a lot better with Russia than with Washington. You can see: Washington only brings chaos, deaths, crimes, corruption and misery (and terrorism) everywhere it comes with its stinky "democracy". In spring 2014 (before the war) I used to come to demonstrations against junta with a banner "Where America comes she brings the war" in 2 languages: Russian and English. Sure enough, we didn't have to wait long for Washington to confirm it. (But they blamed Putin as always, somebody must be guilty, and it's never Deep State and their puppets!)

The residents of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia (to which it used to belong until the Communists gave it to Ukraine). The Crimean Parliament then duly announced its secession from Ukraine and re-entry into the embrace of Mother Russia, where it rightly figured the Crimean people would be a lot safer and more prosperous. Russia backed that up with military muscle just in case the strutting clowns in Kiev got any funny ideas about ignoring the will of the people in the true tradition of Western-style democracy and snatched it back again.
http://www.stevecookwriter.co.uk/2016/02/kiev-understandably-embarrassed-by.html

Crimea has chosen its path in the referendum” — said Mariani at the press conference in Moscow.
Thierry Mariani: Better to be Crimean Tatar than Russian in Baltics

Crimea’s reunification with Russia reflects the will of the majority of the Crimean people, the head of a French delegation visiting the peninsula says. He added that if it had not joined Russia, it could have been turned into a battle zone like east Ukraine.
Crimea referendum reflected people’s will – French delegation head

4. The life standards in Ukraine have dropped significantly since the coup not due Russians but due to Kiev junta intentionally killing all the industry and jobs. They have two goals (dictated to them from Washington): to reduce the population as much as possible and to harm Russia. So far that's the only two things they've been doing excellently and that's why their Deep State Washington bosses keep them alive and in power.

The Bible says: "Those who have ears wouldn't hear and those who have eyes wouldn't see." Thanks to Deep State propaganda in both USA and Ukraine that's exactly what we are witnessing right now.

I dont think that the life standards dropped significantly. Yes, the price of utilitis has risen significantly, and other prices rose, but also rose wages. I can say for sure only about my family of course.

The major plants and fabrics in my city were closed when I was a child and teenager. And this is the case not only in my city. The point of no return has been passed long ago.

 

[ESay]

It is a lie. Show me a textbook where it is written about the Ukrainians being the first people on the Earth.

Russian soldiers took over administrative buildings, Ukrainian bases, airports and so on in Crimea. It isnt denied on official level in Russia now. There has been Russian military assistance to the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine. It is denied officially but recognised even on Russian forums. Call that invasion or not, but only insane will deny Russian involvement.

Show me at least one Russian soldier in Ukrainian streets then (may be) I'll show you a textbook. Deal?

I wonder how much Ukrainian lying Media has already damaged you since you can't see the difference between the words "invasion" and "agreement". Russians were in Crimea legally because there was an agreement (a treaty) between Russia and Ukraine about their presence in Crimea until 2042.

The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option

Kharkiv Pact - Wikipedia

Unfortunatelly, the demaged is you if you dont understand the difference between what you are writing and what is being said to you. The Russian troops were in Crimea according to the agreement between Russia and Ukraine, yes. But no agreement allowed them taking over Ukrainian bases and property. Moreover, there were significant limitations imposed on them: they couldnt move significant forces in and over Crimea without Ukrain's consent, they werent allowed to move weapons across Crimea without the consent and so on.

 

[Eugene]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

 

[Eugene]

There were several tribes in the ancient Rus which formed contemporary Russians, Ukrainians and Belirussians. Also, in forming Russian people significant role played Finnish tribes, in forming Ukrainians significant role played people of the Steppe. Various parts of Rus had its own history of forming and develompent. The unity of Rus is virtually a myth.

You wish to get historical argue here?
Ok, be so kind to inform us when there is 1st mentioning of such nations like Ukrainians and Belorussians.

Tribes you mentioned were joined in 9-10 century by Knyazes of Rurik dynasty. Ukrainians and Belorussians appeared in 20th century.
But a kind of separation of Rus' was in 13-14th century while Mongols invasion as they divided Rus' in 2 parts. One part got free of them in Moscow, another - on the west and was called Malorussia (small russia) and it tended to join main Russian lands. As a result Russia rejoined and by 20th century we got Russian Empire which included Poland and Finland.
Those 2 regions were very different from the rest of Russia so they separated from Russia in 1917.

Here is my "myth" based on official historical data.
Now I'm interested to see yours

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

 

[Eugene]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

 

[OsteInmar]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Have you ever seen how this American "mathematics" makes mathematical calculations?
I hope you've heard about the idiotic division system in 100 receptions. Are you trying to prove anything to him?

Hahaha
There is also a "Doctor" at the forum, with a higher education, who is sure that modern Russians can not buy Adidas sneakers and drink Stolichnaya vodka.
Above them you just have to scoff, and not try to prove anything.
Adequate Americans in this forum are more, and they do not object to these topics. The only thing they object: the USSR had a great deal of help from the United States. But this argument fits easily.

 

[OsteInmar]

For such blablabla:
Russian soldiers took over administrative buildings, Ukrainian bases, airports and so on in Crimea. It isnt denied on official level in Russia now. There has been Russian military assistance to the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine. It is denied officially but recognised even on Russian forums. Call that invasion or not, but only insane will deny Russian involvement.

You need to give the same level:
America should return Alaska Russia, Texas - Mexico and give independence to the Lakota Indians
Dot.

 

[Eugene]

You need to give the same level:
America should return Alaska Russia

Here is a 4 years old joke from Russia:

[Crimea in Russian sounds like 'crym']
So, new name for Alaska is 'Ice-cream'!

 

[ESay]

There were several tribes in the ancient Rus which formed contemporary Russians, Ukrainians and Belirussians. Also, in forming Russian people significant role played Finnish tribes, in forming Ukrainians significant role played people of the Steppe. Various parts of Rus had its own history of forming and develompent. The unity of Rus is virtually a myth.

You wish to get historical argue here?
Ok, be so kind to inform us when there is 1st mentioning of such nations like Ukrainians and Belorussians.

Tribes you mentioned were joined in 9-10 century by Knyazes of Rurik dynasty. Ukrainians and Belorussians appeared in 20th century.
But a kind of separation of Rus' was in 13-14th century while Mongols invasion as they divided Rus' in 2 parts. One part got free of them in Moscow, another - on the west and was called Malorussia (small russia) and it tended to join main Russian lands. As a result Russia rejoined and by 20th century we got Russian Empire which included Poland and Finland.
Those 2 regions were very different from the rest of Russia so they separated from Russia in 1917.

Here is my "myth" based on official historical data.
Now I'm interested to see yours

Frankly not. The historical argue is pointless because everyone will stay with his own opinion. I will write my opinion and we will finish with that.

The ancient Rus state emerged in the 9 century with Rurik reigning in Novgorod. Then Oleg extended his rule, took over Kiev and made it his capital. This is considered the time when the history of Kievan Rus began. The state existed roughly 250 years, from the late 9th century till the Mongol invasion in 1240s.
There was so called Golden age of KR. Some think that this age lasts during the reigns of Vladimir the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, other think that the age was only during Yaroslav's rule and even not in full extention of his rule. Roughly 50 years. During the Golden age the KR enjoed prosperity due to stable political system based on the authority of the Great Duke, economical gains, cultural rise and so on. 50-60 years out of 250. Out of this period, there were constant battles between various principalities (so called mezhduusobizy) about which ruler will be the first among others. To the time of Mongol invasion, there were virtualy no single state. So, in addition to the ethnic differences (East Slavic tribes despite being related to each other had different dialects, customs etc.) the Kievan Rus was politically fragmentated.
The Mongol invasion only made things worse. After that Moscow kingdom rose in so called Nort-Eastern Rus, and the lands of so called South-Western Rus became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

To be continued.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

​

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

 

[Eugene]

There were several tribes in the ancient Rus which formed contemporary Russians, Ukrainians and Belirussians. Also, in forming Russian people significant role played Finnish tribes, in forming Ukrainians significant role played people of the Steppe. Various parts of Rus had its own history of forming and develompent. The unity of Rus is virtually a myth.

You wish to get historical argue here?
Ok, be so kind to inform us when there is 1st mentioning of such nations like Ukrainians and Belorussians.

Tribes you mentioned were joined in 9-10 century by Knyazes of Rurik dynasty. Ukrainians and Belorussians appeared in 20th century.
But a kind of separation of Rus' was in 13-14th century while Mongols invasion as they divided Rus' in 2 parts. One part got free of them in Moscow, another - on the west and was called Malorussia (small russia) and it tended to join main Russian lands. As a result Russia rejoined and by 20th century we got Russian Empire which included Poland and Finland.
Those 2 regions were very different from the rest of Russia so they separated from Russia in 1917.

Here is my "myth" based on official historical data.
Now I'm interested to see yours

Frankly not. The historical argue is pointless because everyone will stay with his own opinion. I will write my opinion and we will finish with that.

The ancient Rus state emerged in the 9 century with Rurik reigning in Novgorod. Then Oleg extended his rule, took over Kiev and made it his capital. This is considered the time when the history of Kievan Rus began. The state existed roughly 250 years, from the late 9th century till the Mongol invasion in 1240s.
There was so called Golden age of KR. Some think that this age lasts during the reigns of Vladimir the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, other think that the age was only during Yaroslav's rule and even not in full extention of his rule. Roughly 50 years. During the Golden age the KR enjoed prosperity due to stable political system based on the authority of the Great Duke, economical gains, cultural rise and so on. 50-60 years out of 250. Out of this period, there were constant battles between various principalities (so called mezhduusobizy) about which ruler will be the first among others. To the time of Mongol invasion, there were virtualy no single state. So, in addition to the ethnic differences (East Slavic tribes despite being related to each other had different dialects, customs etc.) the Kievan Rus was politically fragmentated.
The Mongol invasion only made things worse. After that Moscow kingdom rose in so called Nort-Eastern Rus, and the lands of so called South-Western Rus became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

To be continued.

Right you are but I cannot see inconsistencies of "my and your" history. You wrote it more detailed while I put attention to 1st appearing of Ukrainians and Belorussians.

The only thing I don't agree - 9th century is not the time of emerging of Rus' but it is the date we have more or less reliable information about it. Though in Scandinavian sagas Gardarika (their name of Rus') is mentioned since 4th century as rich, developed and strong country.

And constant battles of principalities is typical for the whole Europe of middle ages.

Pay attention that term "Kievan Rus'" appeared in 19th century by historic Solovyov who used it just to show which city was the capital at some certain period. He also mentioned Novgorodian Rus', Moscovian Rus' and others. Those terms refer to time not territory.

 

[Eugene]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

What oppression?
Check the economy of Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia now and while "under oppression". They have no industry now, their economy is fully dependent from west Europe and USA. They have no freedom to choose their own policy now.
So they are under American oppression now!