Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

[Foxfyre]

I confess I grump a bit when I receive a "Happy Holidays" card. When Target and Wal-Mart dropped "Christmas" from their promotional materials last year, I'll admit feeling insulted. For me, the season is Christmas and "Merry Christmas" is the way it should be, and, being one not too gung go on PC stuff, I stubbornly use that phrase in my greetings this time of year. And that beautiful old creche on the courthouse lawn is just fine.

At the same time, if I know my neighbor or friend or associate is Jewish, I wish him/her Happy Hannukah or whatever. I try not to be a total jerk.

So how is it for you? Big deal? Of no import? Should Christmas be politically correct? Or should Christians be accommodated in a season founded on a figure that they worship?

And while you are pondering that: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

 

[ReillyT]

I confess I grump a bit when I receive a "Happy Holidays" card. When Target and Wal-Mart dropped "Christmas" from their promotional materials last year, I'll admit feeling insulted. For me, the season is Christmas and "Merry Christmas" is the way it should be, and, being one not too gung go on PC stuff, I stubbornly use that phrase in my greetings this time of year. And that beautiful old creche on the courthouse lawn is just fine.

At the same time, if I know my neighbor or friend or associate is Jewish, I wish him/her Happy Hannukah or whatever. I try not to be a total jerk.

So how is it for you? Big deal? Of no import? Should Christmas be politically correct? Or should Christians be accommodated in a season founded on a figure that they worship?

And while you are pondering that: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

Don't care... sentiment is what is important. Merry Christmas!

 

[DiogenesDog]

I confess I grump a bit when I receive a "Happy Holidays" card.

Or should Christians be accommodated in a season founded on a figure that they worship?

And while you are pondering that: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

What Makes A "Good" Christmas?

Ben Stein Says It's Not What is Under Your Tree But What's In Your Heart

Some of the best Christmases I have had have been in places where people know very little about Western Christmas. I have experienced the time without the hustle and bustle of getting everything just right in a commercial way. I have had very good "Season of Joy" without being reminded from every media source that the reason of the Holiday is spending.

We tend to forget that there is a Spirit that we celebrate. That Spirit is best expressed in people around the world in the ways of their native culture. In the US, our celebratory theme is a direct lift from Pagan practices of Roman and Teutonic antiquity. Now, some may consider that a slap in the face of conventionality, but to me it serves to remind us that humans have been seeking and celebrating the coming of the Infinite for a long time.

I read a particularly biased blast at Kwanza this past week. I had to respond in a pointed comment that the Entity which is the object of the season was first honored and celebrated in Asia and Africa before it was relayed to Anglos and Teutons. The most ancient traditions relate that the first visitors to the events were Wisemen, Kings of Knowledge from the East and that one of their number was a black African.

I also viewed a presentation called Nativity: The Art and Spirit of the Crèche. That theme is reproducible across a wide swath of cultural expression. It can be very anatomically correct or it can be very impressionistic. It is an expression of diversity and simplicity in a world of seeming empire and rigid dominion for-your-own-good. It is the very antithesis of the dominion of the Temple, of the City of Rome, and the terror of the conventional thought.

The season as expressed by the Crèche is the lesson. It is not parochial or sectarian. It is ancient and universal. It is a lesson of acceptance and perseverance in the face of seeming dominion (enrolling in the census) , persecution (killing of newborns) and lack (being born in a place where animals are quartered).

I have been accused of being too grumpy and not a good participant in the season. I find that my joy is within and needs no promiscuous displays of convention to fuel that joy.

Go! Be joyful!

I AM

Lantern Bearer

 

[Abelian Sea]

Merry Christmas!

That's my impulse. It seems that just about everybody, for just about forever, has celebrated at this time of year. In my neck of the woods, we call it "Christmas."

For me, it's never really been a Christian issue. It's not like Jesus was born in the wintertime, and c'mon: Santa with his magic reindeer and Elven cohorts, Christmas trees, the general decedance? It ranks up there with Easter and Holloween for blatantly being an "old school" seasonal holiday with roots far deeper than any particular mythos. (I guess Summer doesn't really need its own major holiday; it's nice enough out that you can just have numerous sponteneous local parties).

Not that I mean any disrespect. Christmastime is about huddling in with what's really important, like family, and for most people that includes a religion, and pretty much every religion has had the good sense to establish some sort of mid-winter tradition. So, if I know someone is getting into something specific, I'll wish them a happy whatever-it-is, but by default I say Christmas. It beats "merry universal-human-impluse-to-celebrate-in-the-heart-of-winter!" And "happy holidays" is a little too general; I'm not wishing them a happy Labor Day, or Forth of July, or any other holiday; I specifically mean that holiday that more or less coincides with the winter solstice.

But all that's beside the point.

The point is that it's cold and dark and the world is weird and wild, so gather to ye your family, bask in the warmth of human affection, and let peace, cheer, and good will reign! It's Christmastime!

*party*

 

[Foxfyre]

Well said guys.

 

[Shogun]

To be honest, I find it hilarious that the product of market forces (happy holidays) irks the very same people who are otherwise preaching about the free market and it's gracious invisible hand.

I think that liberals and anyone else that gets the scapegoat treatment for this little seasonal fandango should organize an effort to call Bill Oreilly and wish him a Merry Christmas en mass.

Im thinking that if THIS is the biggest problem you have this holiday season then count your blessings.

 

[midcan5]

To be honest, I find it hilarious that the product of market forces (happy holidays) irks the very same people who are otherwise preaching about the free market and it's gracious invisible hand.

I think that liberals and anyone else that gets the scapegoat treatment for this little seasonal fandango should organize an effort to call Bill Oreilly and wish him a Merry Christmas en mass.

Im thinking that if THIS is the biggest problem you have this holiday season then count your blessings.

Well said.

 

[Gem]

Shogun said it brilliantly:

Im thinking that if THIS is the biggest problem you have this holiday season then count your blessings.

Here, here!

 

[Foxfyre]

Nobody said it was a huge problem. It is just interesting in the fabric of our culture and a coercive political correctness that too often tries to order our speech and behavior these days. Sometimes when we understand that a more realistic perspective is necessary in the small things, we don't wind up with such things becoming greatly exaggerated and a big deal.

There would be no Christmas if Christians did not worship the Christ and chose to celebrate the nativity with a specific feast day or festival. Yes, other religions also celebrate in the period around the Winter Solstice, but Christmas takes nothing away from those, nor does it have anything to do with those.

Christians should not be offended by those who do not wish to say Merry Christmas. But the season we are celebrating is Christmas just the same, and nobody should be offended by being wished a Merry Christmas or the equivalent in any language elsewhere, and I would like to see Christans not be made to feel self conscious when they say it.

 

[Shogun]

Nobody said it was a huge problem. It is just interesting in the fabric of our culture and a coercive political correctness that too often tries to order our speech and behavior these days. Sometimes when we understand that a more realistic perspective is necessary in the small things, we don't wind up with such things becoming greatly exaggerated and a big deal.

There would be no Christmas if Christians did not worship the Christ and chose to celebrate the nativity with a specific feast day or festival. Yes, other religions also celebrate in the period around the Winter Solstice, but Christmas takes nothing away from those, nor does it have anything to do with those.

Christians should not be offended by those who do not wish to say Merry Christmas. But the season we are celebrating is Christmas just the same, and nobody should be offended by being wished a Merry Christmas or the equivalent in any language elsewhere, and I would like to see Christans not be made to feel self conscious when they say it.

Again, Happy Holidays is NOT the product of being politically correct. It's the product of the same MARKET FORCES that capitalists like to claim will regulate our economy. No one, not a single soul, FORCES companies to say Holidays instead of christmas.

Indeed, the reason YOU may be celebrating may be christmas and I hope you have a good one.. But, if christians feel self conscious about saying marry christmas then perhaps they need to stop insisting on the exclusive right to broadcast their observations every winter. Besides, since dec. 25 is pretty much a surrogate date anyway....

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, Happy Holidays is NOT the product of being politically correct. It's the product of the same MARKET FORCES that capitalists like to claim will regulate our economy. No one, not a single soul, FORCES companies to say Holidays instead of christmas.

Indeed, the reason YOU may be celebrating may be christmas and I hope you have a good one.. But, if christians feel self conscious about saying marry christmas then perhaps they need to stop insisting on the exclusive right to broadcast their observations every winter. Besides, since dec. 25 is pretty much a surrogate date anyway....

Happy Holidays IS the product of being politically correct when some Target and Wal-Mart managers ordered their employees to say it to customers and not say Merry Christmas. (No, it apparently was not the official policy of either organization but they did officially remove Merry Christmas from their promotional materials last year and some managers assumed it was the official policy.) And it IS the product of being politically correct if people alter their greeting just in case somebody might be offended by Merry Christmas.

How the date was set is immaterial to this discussion and accusations of "insisting on exclusive rights" is both straw man and red herring as well as being absurd.

The point is that the season is celebrated however it is celebrated in America because Christians chose to include the birth of Christ within the general liturgical calendar. And because it was deemed a feast day or festival it has become a celebration observed by just about everybody regardless of their particular religious beliefs or non beliefs.

And while Happy Holidays is fine for those not wanting to say Merry Christmas, wishing all people a Merry Christmas at such a time should not be a problem or issue for anybody.

 

[jillian]

I confess I grump a bit when I receive a "Happy Holidays" card. When Target and Wal-Mart dropped "Christmas" from their promotional materials last year, I'll admit feeling insulted. For me, the season is Christmas and "Merry Christmas" is the way it should be, and, being one not too gung go on PC stuff, I stubbornly use that phrase in my greetings this time of year. And that beautiful old creche on the courthouse lawn is just fine.

At the same time, if I know my neighbor or friend or associate is Jewish, I wish him/her Happy Hannukah or whatever. I try not to be a total jerk.

So how is it for you? Big deal? Of no import? Should Christmas be politically correct? Or should Christians be accommodated in a season founded on a figure that they worship?

And while you are pondering that: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

Businesses should do what they choose and they'll do so based on where there business comes from. It's really no big thing.

Being wished a merry christmas neither offends me nor gives me a good warm feeling. I prefer happy holidays if a generic greeting is being given. It's inclusive and, specifically, is inclusive of me. Nor was the season founded on a Christian Holiday, so I'm not quite certain why you should be "accommodated". I do believe Chanukah came a few thousand years earlier. So I figure we all get to share.

That said, I wish my Christian friends Merry Christmas and expect they'll wish me a Happy Chanukah, but don't care if they wish me merry christmas, too.

 

[mattskramer]

I’m agnostic but it does not bother me if someone presumptuously says “Merry Christmas”. Unless I hear someone say “Merry Christmas” (if I’m the one to speak first) I probably say “Seasons Greetings” or go so far as to say “Happy Holidays”. If I am told, “Merry Christmas, I would not correct the person or educate him on my lack of belief, but reply in kind.

My advice:

Don’t be so quick to be annoyed by hearing someone tell you “Season’s Greetings”. That person might not know whether you are a Christian or not – and does not want to take the risk on unintentionally offending you. Think of it as a sensitive nice gesture.

Season’s Greetings

 

[Shogun]

Happy Holidays IS the product of being politically correct when some Target and Wal-Mart managers ordered their employees to say it to customers and not say Merry Christmas. (No, it apparently was not the official policy of either organization but they did officially remove Merry Christmas from their promotional materials last year and some managers assumed it was the official policy.) And it IS the product of being politically correct if people alter their greeting just in case somebody might be offended by Merry Christmas.

How the date was set is immaterial to this discussion and accusations of "insisting on exclusive rights" is both straw man and red herring as well as being absurd.

The point is that the season is celebrated however it is celebrated in America because Christians chose to include the birth of Christ within the general liturgical calendar. And because it was deemed a feast day or festival it has become a celebration observed by just about everybody regardless of their particular religious beliefs or non beliefs.

And while Happy Holidays is fine for those not wanting to say Merry Christmas, wishing all people a Merry Christmas at such a time should not be a problem or issue for anybody.

1. Do you want to toss out a guess on what makes being holiday neutral appealing to BUSINESSES? If it didn't sell then help me understand WHY a BUSINESS would bother. Is this the product of mere "political correctness"? If so, then WHO IS FORCING TARGET TO COMPLY? Or, is this, like I said, a product of the very same MARKET FORCES that conservatives are usually waving about when talking about the economy?

2. No, it does matter what the arbitrary day is since your own observations are, at best, a guess and, AT WORST, a total rip off of pagan seasonal harvest rituals. if you don't have any greater claim to this time of year than a date conscripted by some church in some point in time then, certainly, you can share recognition in this secular america (damn that first amendment!)

3. Your opinion is just that. when you have investing 51% chares in Target then what you think might be relevant to their business plan. Otherwise, I THINK (see how that works?) that christians who need to feel a social pat on the back every winter is missing the point of their dogma altogether. Cashiers saying happy holidays to you are not hindering your religous observations one iota. If you don't like the door greeting then shop somewhere that fits your christian criteria. Issues like this make christianity a superficial farce. Like I said, if this is the biggest roman lion you encounter this year...

 

[tigerbob]

1. Do you want to toss out a guess on what makes being holiday neutral appealing to BUSINESSES? If it didn't sell then help me understand WHY a BUSINESS would bother. Is this the product of mere "political correctness"?

My company employs around 70,000 people globally. Despite being headquartered in Britain and the US - two predominantly Christian countries - all our internal greeting messages (corporate screensavers, e-mails, etc.) use the term "Happy Holidays".

Is this political correctness? Well....yes it is. We are not talking to consumers but to employees, so we are obviously not worried about losing their custom. So, clearly businesses do use the term Happy Holidays for non fiscal reasons.

When I send something out, I naturally feel more comfortable wishing someone Happy Christmas than Happy Holidays. But it's meant to be the season of goodwill, so I have no problem wishing someone Happy Holidays if I suspect that Happy Christmas will have little meaning to them.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. Do you want to toss out a guess on what makes being holiday neutral appealing to BUSINESSES? If it didn't sell then help me understand WHY a BUSINESS would bother. Is this the product of mere "political correctness"? If so, then WHO IS FORCING TARGET TO COMPLY? Or, is this, like I said, a product of the very same MARKET FORCES that conservatives are usually waving about when talking about the economy?

2. No, it does matter what the arbitrary day is since your own observations are, at best, a guess and, AT WORST, a total rip off of pagan seasonal harvest rituals. if you don't have any greater claim to this time of year than a date conscripted by some church in some point in time then, certainly, you can share recognition in this secular america (damn that first amendment!)

3. Your opinion is just that. when you have investing 51% chares in Target then what you think might be relevant to their business plan. Otherwise, I THINK (see how that works?) that christians who need to feel a social pat on the back every winter is missing the point of their dogma altogether. Cashiers saying happy holidays to you are not hindering your religous observations one iota. If you don't like the door greeting then shop somewhere that fits your christian criteria. Issues like this make christianity a superficial farce. Like I said, if this is the biggest roman lion you encounter this year...

If I had 51% shares in Target, I would be DEMANDING that a "Merry Christmas" greeting not only be allowed but be encouraged in the United States where, like it or not, most people do celebrate Christmas and a majority profess some ties with the Christian faith. If the store was located in Istanbul or Jerusalem, then of course "Merry Christmas" would not be an appropriate greeting. I doubt those places have a significant Christmas sales season anyway. If for no other reason than commerical practicality, I would cater to the bulk of those buying Christmas gifts rather than worry about the very few who might take offense at a "Merry Christmas".

 

[liberalogic]

I confess I grump a bit when I receive a "Happy Holidays" card. When Target and Wal-Mart dropped "Christmas" from their promotional materials last year, I'll admit feeling insulted. For me, the season is Christmas and "Merry Christmas" is the way it should be, and, being one not too gung go on PC stuff, I stubbornly use that phrase in my greetings this time of year. And that beautiful old creche on the courthouse lawn is just fine.

At the same time, if I know my neighbor or friend or associate is Jewish, I wish him/her Happy Hannukah or whatever. I try not to be a total jerk.

So how is it for you? Big deal? Of no import? Should Christmas be politically correct? Or should Christians be accommodated in a season founded on a figure that they worship?

And while you are pondering that: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

If everyone had to accommodate christians on this holiday, I don't think there would be Santa Clause or Rudolph or any other Christmas figure. Christmas is probably more of a secular holiday at this point. I don't think it solely belongs to Christians anymore because they've turned it over to the free market. I know many Jews and Hindus who put up Christmas Trees and celebrate the holiday.

 

[Foxfyre]

If everyone had to accommodate christians on this holiday, I don't think there would be Santa Clause or Rudolph or any other Christmas figure. Christmas is probably more of a secular holiday at this point. I don't think it solely belongs to Christians anymore because they've turned it over to the free market. I know many Jews and Hindus who put up Christmas Trees and celebrate the holiday.

Yes, if it was necessary to be a Christian in order to celebrate Christmas, it would be an inappropriate Federally recognized holiday. And while there would be no Christmas had there not been Christ, Christians are neither stingy nor exclusive with the celebration nor do they claim it all to themselves. All are welcome to share in it just as those without a drop of Irish blood still enjoy celebrating St. Patrick's Day. I lived many years in North Central Kansas in which most little communities have a strong cultural heritage from immigrants from this or that European country. Most celebrate that heritage in a city festival honoring those traditions including dressing up in appropriate costume, teaching the kids the folk dances, and sharing favorite ethnic foods and greeting one another in traditional greetings often in the old country language. Certainly many citizens join in the festivities whether they have any ancestral ties with the 'old country' or not. It is great fun for all.

Christmas should be like that.

 

[tigerbob]

All are welcome to share in it just as those without a drop of Irish blood still enjoy celebrating St. Patrick's Day.

Interesting parallel. If suddenly there was a call for St Patrick's Day to be called 'Green Day' or 'Irish Day', would that be a problem?

Or is it mainly due to the fact that Christmas is claimed in general as a public holiday that makes the difference (i.e. everyone feels some degree of ownership whether they are Christian or not)?

 

[Larkinn]

My company employs around 70,000 people globally. Despite being headquartered in Britain and the US - two predominantly Christian countries - all our internal greeting messages (corporate screensavers, e-mails, etc.) use the term "Happy Holidays".

Is this political correctness? Well....yes it is. We are not talking to consumers but to employees, so we are obviously not worried about losing their custom. So, clearly businesses do use the term Happy Holidays for non fiscal reasons.

When I send something out, I naturally feel more comfortable wishing someone Happy Christmas than Happy Holidays. But it's meant to be the season of goodwill, so I have no problem wishing someone Happy Holidays if I suspect that Happy Christmas will have little meaning to them.

You don't think that keeping businesses want to keep their employees happy for fiscal reasons?