Medicare is a mandated health insurance.

[Quantum Windbag]

Medicare is not a mandatede health insurance program. An individual can opt out if they want to and purchse whatever health insurance they can afford. Example: Mitt Romney just turned 65. He has opted out of Medicare without any recriminations from the federal government.

Sure it is.

Explain something to me.

If Medicare is actually a mandated health insurance, and that actually proved that mandates are somehow constitutional, why didn't the government simply argue that Medicare proves the mandate is constitutional? Why did no one on either side of the argument try to make that argument in court? Where they all so stupid they didn't see it? Did no one ever see the blindingly obvious until some genius on a book blog saw it?

 

[starcraftzzz]

When I turned 65, I got my medicare enrollment form as well as a form to fill out if I intended to opt out. If I opted to accept medicare, the premiums would be deducted from my social security check, if I opted out, there woud be no deduction.

So no it isn't mandated. There is no fine or penalty if someone opts out.

How come government employees get to opt out of FICA?

ROTFL i see so according to you paying Medicare taxes and not using Medicare means there is no fine to opt out of Medicare

 

[Interpol]

C.O.B.R.A. is also a health care mandate, but shhhhh! Don't tell anyone.....Reagan passed it....

 

[Old Rocks]

Because you would never really get that care. It would be like every other country with socialized medicine. Medical care would be rationed to keep costs down. Only pallative care, until you die is universal because they don't do anything except let you lay there and die.

There is no form of medical care that isn't paid for. None. Doctors and nurses don't work free. Medical equipment is not provided free. As high as taxes are in England to support the massive health service it's still not enough.

Hmmm...... Japan, Canada, and virtually every other industrial nation in the world pay less of the GNP for health care than we do. And they all cover all of their citizens. Their results are far better than ours, in longevity, and in infant mortality.

So they are paying less for better results. And most of the rest of what you state is just bullshit. Very few in any of these nations would trade their system for ours. In fact, Canadian citizens by over 90% approve of their system.

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting point here. Up to the age of 65, most of the industrial nations have far better health statistics than we do. After the age of 65, we are almost equal to the other industrial nations for the citizens past that age. The differance? MediCare and MediAid.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Because you would never really get that care. It would be like every other country with socialized medicine. Medical care would be rationed to keep costs down.

I see so according to you 100% of the population having medical care in Socialized countrys is rationing but here in American where only 85% of people have access to health care its not rationed. Perhaps you should look up the definition of rationed because you don't know it.
Furthermore people in socialized health car systems USE health care services more often then Americans.
Cost Related Access Problems in Past Two Years - The Commonwealth Fund
^Americans are 160% more likely to not get health care due to cost. 54% of Americans don't get some form of care because of cost
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
1) USA spends 150% more than the OCED average.
2) OCED has 33% more patients
3) OCED has 71% more doctor visits
4) OCED has 25% more doctors
5 OCED has 46% more hospital beds
6) OCED has 75% less deaths due to medical errors

Home | TPMCafe
==37% of Americans don't get care, compared to 5% of candidaians. American number is deflated because you have to have Care to know you need more.

There is no form of medical care that isn't paid for. None. Doctors and nurses don't work free. Medical equipment is not provided free. As high as taxes are in England to support the massive health service it's still not enough.

England spends less then HALF per capital that what we spend dumbass

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I see so according to you 100% of the population having medical care in Socialized countrys is rationing but here in American where only 85% of people have access to health care its not rationed. Perhaps you should look up the definition of rationed because you don't know it.

That's good advice. You should practice it. First of all, it's a lie that only 85% of people in this country have access to health care, but you already knew that.

Second, to ration means to sparingly distribute a scarce resource or service. Therefore the 15 or so percent of people in this country who lack health insurance at any given time has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of rationing.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

England spends less then HALF per capital that what we spend dumbass

They also have a lower survival rate of serious illnesses than we do and wait far longer to get care when sick and suffering.

 

[dblack]

MEDICARE IS A MANDATED HEALTH INSURANCE.

Not quite. All government programs are 'mandated'. That's the nature of government. But the difference between Medicare (Social Security, etc) is that it is a government controlled program, nominally under control of taxpayers via our representatives. Mandating that we fork over payments to a third party, for a service we may or may not want, is another matter entirely. It essentially extends the power of taxation to the insurance industry. Yet insurance companies remain privately held corporations, with a fiduciary responsibility to turn a profit for their shareholders. The PPACA is unabashed corporatism of the ugliest sort. Here's hoping the court strikes the damned thing down.

 

[Intense]

MEDICARE IS A MANDATED HEALTH INSURANCE.
But no one is suing to have it repealed.
Social Security Retirement is a federally mandated program run by the Social Security Administration (SSA) and supported by tax dollars.
Healthcare is not a product like broccoli but a service every body needs a sometime in it’s lifetime. Medical care could be a matter of life and death but not broccoli. Broccoli will not set a broken bone and cure pneumonia. I don’t want to pay for your medical care through my taxes or high hospital cost.
No kind of national healthcare program can work without a mandate for all to participate in. Medicare and Social Security will not work if a few participated. Even Illegal Aliens pay into the Medicare and social security system. I paid into the Medicaid program and never used it.
You may not be mandated to buy and pay for healthcare but I am mandated to pay for your medical care through my taxes and medical care cost. Why should I pay for my healthcare and yours when you are able? Not like some on Medicaid who are disabled.
Those who are screaming the loudest to repeal Obamacare and screaming louder “hands of my Medicare.”


Medicare IS Mandated Health Insurance

The Attorney Generals filing lawsuits have alleged that government has never mandated people buy insurance. That is false – look at Medicare.
I’ve also heard those Attorney Generals say that the government has never said they would send the IRS after people if they didn’t buy health insurance. That is also false – look at Medicare.
FACT:
Medicare IS insurance that the government forces, mandates, us to “buy” via FICA. Even though we may never want to use Medicare – we are still forced to “buy” Medicare via FICA.

IF: any person refuses to pay their share of FICA
THEN: The IRS does, in deed, impose a penalty & interest on the person.
THEN: If the person continues to refuse to buy Medicare via FICA they are jailed.
Medicare IS Mandated Health Insurance | MyFDL

Medicare is paid for through Tax Dollars. The Medicare Tax.

 

[Trajan]

Medicare is not a mandatede health insurance program. An individual can opt out if they want to and purchse whatever health insurance they can afford. Example: Mitt Romney just turned 65. He has opted out of Medicare without any recriminations from the federal government.

he won't get social security then, if I recall correctly the gov. can if you opt out block SS ....he may not need it, just making the larger point here.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I see so according to you 100% of the population having medical care in Socialized countrys is rationing but here in American where only 85% of people have access to health care its not rationed. Perhaps you should look up the definition of rationed because you don't know it.

That's good advice. You should practice it. First of all, it's a lie that only 85% of people in this country have access to health care, but you already knew that.

Second, to ration means to sparingly distribute a scarce resource or service. Therefore the 15 or so percent of people in this country who lack health insurance at any given time has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of rationing.

Oh I see it is not rationing if poor people are the ones who dont get the services

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I see so according to you 100% of the population having medical care in Socialized countrys is rationing but here in American where only 85% of people have access to health care its not rationed. Perhaps you should look up the definition of rationed because you don't know it.

That's good advice. You should practice it. First of all, it's a lie that only 85% of people in this country have access to health care, but you already knew that.

Second, to ration means to sparingly distribute a scarce resource or service. Therefore the 15 or so percent of people in this country who lack health insurance at any given time has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of rationing.

Oh I see it is only rationing if poor people are the ones who dont get the services

No, you don't see. I told you what rationing is. Poor, rich, in the middle is completely irrelevant.

 

[starcraftzzz]

England spends less then HALF per capital that what we spend dumbass

They also have a lower survival rate of serious illnesses than we do and wait far longer to get care when sick and suffering.

Actually you are 100% incorrect
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
1) USA spends 150% more than the OCED average.
2) OCED has 33% more patients
3) OCED has 71% more doctor visits
4) OCED has 25% more doctors
5 OCED has 46% more hospital beds
6) OCED has 75% less deaths due to medical errors

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf
Core Health Indicators
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
OECD Health Data 2011 - Frequently Requested Data
==Academic standards show America has worse healthcare then other countries.
USA compared to government health care. (all statistics are per capita).
Where America is worse.
1) America has 50% more Medical errors.
2) America is worst in preventable deaths. If America was like government health care 200,000 people would be saved a year.
3) America has 2 million more medical bankruptcies compared to 0.
4) America has 26% less doctors.
5) America has 4% less nurses.
6) America has 46% less hospital beds.
7) America saw half the life expectancy change than countries who changed to government health care.
8) Infant mortality rates are 17% higher in America.
9) America has 100% less Psychiatric care beds.
10) America has 20% less people who go to hospitals.
11) America has 26% more years of life lost due to medical reasons.
12) America has 40% more Respiratory deaths
13) US Tuberculosis treatment success is 10% less

Preventable Deaths for selected countries, 1997-1998 and 2002-2003, issued 2008
France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking | Reuters
==USA worst in preventable deaths.
==If USA was at the average 75,000 less people would die a year.


Canada outranks U.S. in healthcare report card | Reuters
^United states is ranked last on health care outcomes among 16 nations.

 

[starcraftzzz]

That's good advice. You should practice it. First of all, it's a lie that only 85% of people in this country have access to health care, but you already knew that.

Second, to ration means to sparingly distribute a scarce resource or service. Therefore the 15 or so percent of people in this country who lack health insurance at any given time has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of rationing.

Oh I see it is only rationing if poor people are the ones who dont get the services

No, you don't see. I told you what rationing is. Poor, rich, in the middle is completely irrelevant.

Oh I see so if you distribute health care out so only 85% of the population can use the resource its not rationing because those people are poor... no wait it is. Perhaps if you were literate..

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

England spends less then HALF per capital that what we spend dumbass

They also have a lower survival rate of serious illnesses than we do and wait far longer to get care when sick and suffering.

Actually you are 100% incorrect
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
1) USA spends 150% more than the OCED average.
2) OCED has 33% more patients
3) OCED has 71% more doctor visits
4) OCED has 25% more doctors
5 OCED has 46% more hospital beds
6) OCED has 75% less deaths due to medical errors

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf
Core Health Indicators
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
OECD Health Data 2011 - Frequently Requested Data
==Academic standards show America has worse healthcare then other countries.
USA compared to government health care. (all statistics are per capita).
Where America is worse.
1) America has 50% more Medical errors.
2) America is worst in preventable deaths. If America was like government health care 200,000 people would be saved a year.
3) America has 2 million more medical bankruptcies compared to 0.
4) America has 26% less doctors.
5) America has 4% less nurses.
6) America has 46% less hospital beds.
7) America saw half the life expectancy change than countries who changed to government health care.
8) Infant mortality rates are 17% higher in America.
9) America has 100% less Psychiatric care beds.
10) America has 20% less people who go to hospitals.
11) America has 26% more years of life lost due to medical reasons.
12) America has 40% more Respiratory deaths
13) US Tuberculosis treatment success is 10% less

Preventable Deaths for selected countries, 1997-1998 and 2002-2003, issued 2008
France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking | Reuters
==USA worst in preventable deaths.
==If USA was at the average 75,000 less people would die a year.


Canada outranks U.S. in healthcare report card | Reuters
^United states is ranked last on health care outcomes among 16 nations.

Do you actually take the time to read the links you post? They back up what I said.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Oh I see it is only rationing if poor people are the ones who dont get the services

No, you don't see. I told you what rationing is. Poor, rich, in the middle is completely irrelevant.

Oh I see so if you distribute health care out so only 85% of the population can use the resource its not rationing because those people are poor... no wait it is. Perhaps if you were literate..

No, you don't see. I never said any of that. I have no idea where you're getting it from.

And obviously I'm literate or I couldn't be replying to you. I have a Master's Degree in Business Administration, actually.

It's been my experience that people like you who constantly insult others in a discussion do so because you're incapable of defending your claims with any honesty, facts, or logic and also lack a certain amount of maturity. Is that your issue?

 

[starcraftzzz]

They also have a lower survival rate of serious illnesses than we do and wait far longer to get care when sick and suffering.

Actually you are 100% incorrect
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
1) USA spends 150% more than the OCED average.
2) OCED has 33% more patients
3) OCED has 71% more doctor visits
4) OCED has 25% more doctors
5 OCED has 46% more hospital beds
6) OCED has 75% less deaths due to medical errors

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf
Core Health Indicators
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
OECD Health Data 2011 - Frequently Requested Data
==Academic standards show America has worse healthcare then other countries.
USA compared to government health care. (all statistics are per capita).
Where America is worse.
1) America has 50% more Medical errors.
2) America is worst in preventable deaths. If America was like government health care 200,000 people would be saved a year.
3) America has 2 million more medical bankruptcies compared to 0.
4) America has 26% less doctors.
5) America has 4% less nurses.
6) America has 46% less hospital beds.
7) America saw half the life expectancy change than countries who changed to government health care.
8) Infant mortality rates are 17% higher in America.
9) America has 100% less Psychiatric care beds.
10) America has 20% less people who go to hospitals.
11) America has 26% more years of life lost due to medical reasons.
12) America has 40% more Respiratory deaths
13) US Tuberculosis treatment success is 10% less

Preventable Deaths for selected countries, 1997-1998 and 2002-2003, issued 2008
France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking | Reuters
==USA worst in preventable deaths.
==If USA was at the average 75,000 less people would die a year.


Canada outranks U.S. in healthcare report card | Reuters
^United states is ranked last on health care outcomes among 16 nations.

Do you actually take the time to read the links you post? They back up what I said.

I did not realize you said that American had worse heath outcomes and more deaths due to medical related errors despite costing 150% more

 

[starcraftzzz]

No, you don't see. I told you what rationing is. Poor, rich, in the middle is completely irrelevant.

Oh I see so if you distribute health care out so only 85% of the population can use the resource its not rationing because those people are poor... no wait it is. Perhaps if you were literate..

No, you don't see. I never said any of that. I have no idea where you're getting it from.

And obviously I'm literate or I couldn't be replying to you. I have a Master's Degree in Business Administration, actually.

It's been my experience that people like you who constantly insult others in a discussion do so because you're incapable of defending your claims with any honesty, facts, or logic and also lack a certain amount of maturity. Is that your issue?

You never really said anything intellectual I know. Business ROTF. People with actual degrees make fun of Business majors for basically not be educated and having class difficulties in the high school range.
ROTFL I see so according to you statistics, and data aren't facts.
Its hard to take you seriously when everything you say is either wrong or at an intellectual level below 5th grade standards.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Actually you are 100% incorrect
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
1) USA spends 150% more than the OCED average.
2) OCED has 33% more patients
3) OCED has 71% more doctor visits
4) OCED has 25% more doctors
5 OCED has 46% more hospital beds
6) OCED has 75% less deaths due to medical errors

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf
Core Health Indicators
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf
OECD Health Data 2011 - Frequently Requested Data
==Academic standards show America has worse healthcare then other countries.
USA compared to government health care. (all statistics are per capita).
Where America is worse.
1) America has 50% more Medical errors.
2) America is worst in preventable deaths. If America was like government health care 200,000 people would be saved a year.
3) America has 2 million more medical bankruptcies compared to 0.
4) America has 26% less doctors.
5) America has 4% less nurses.
6) America has 46% less hospital beds.
7) America saw half the life expectancy change than countries who changed to government health care.
8) Infant mortality rates are 17% higher in America.
9) America has 100% less Psychiatric care beds.
10) America has 20% less people who go to hospitals.
11) America has 26% more years of life lost due to medical reasons.
12) America has 40% more Respiratory deaths
13) US Tuberculosis treatment success is 10% less

Preventable Deaths for selected countries, 1997-1998 and 2002-2003, issued 2008
France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking | Reuters
==USA worst in preventable deaths.
==If USA was at the average 75,000 less people would die a year.


Canada outranks U.S. in healthcare report card | Reuters
^United states is ranked last on health care outcomes among 16 nations.

Do you actually take the time to read the links you post? They back up what I said.

I did not realize you said that American had worse heath outcomes and more deaths due to medical related errors despite costing 150% more

Notice how the idiot runs and cries when it is proven that his position is 100% incorrect and only shared with ignorant tools