McDonalds Introduces Self Serving Kiosks in Response to Min Wage Increase

[jon_berzerk]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

What pay cut?


.

once they go to kiosks

they aint switching back

why would they

 

[Conservative65]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

A government mandated minimum wage shouldn't exist.

 

[Conservative65]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

What pay cut?


.

once they go to kiosks

they aint switching back

why would they

Customer satisfaction will be higher. Order completed in a more prompt manner and correct.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

Minimum wage has not been frozen for eight years. Some have already moved to a $15.00 minimum wage and most states pay above the federal minimum.

No matter what the minimum wage is, many places pay above it anyway since they can't find people to work for minimum wage.

 

[Conservative65]

They are buying the brand name and all the advertising power and recognition that comes with it. it's part of the package. They could open up their own no name burger joint, but they don't. That's the pact they make with McDonald's corporate. Don't go rambling about "economic rent", that is just an excuse people who are lazy and feckless use to get free crap from others.

The real problem is people think they can make an entry level McDonald's job a career that allows for a family and a life of some type of leisure. That is the real crock here.

Only in right wing fantasy, can it be that arbitrary and that capricious; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, simply competes favorably with the cost of social services.

There's a better solution. If the only skill you have get you the current minimum wage, the problem isn't with the one paying but the one offering such shitty skills. Since the one offering the low skills is the cause of the low wage, they shouldn't get a dime to offset what is their fault. If they can't afford food, clothing, shelter, or anything else as a result, that's the best motivator to do better.

Well see, that is where you and I differ. My position is that if you work forty hours a week you deserve the respect and the dignity to be able to support yourself AND at least one other person without government assistance. I don't care if there is skill involved or not. You show up, you do what you are told, and you do it for forty hours a week, you deserve at least that much.

That's where you and I differ. You think someone should be paid a certain amount solely because they breathe and I expect them to earn what they get. If it isn't enough, it's the fault of the one offering shitty skills not the equivalent wages to it.

You deserve what the one doing the paying says you deserve. You don't care about skills. That's why I say there is no reason for some freeloading piece of shit to ever do anything better than the minimum because people like you support paying them a certain amount when they don't. Sad part is you think by doing what you do they'll get better. They don't have to if you enable them to be leeches.

Insofar as labor is one of the factors of production, apply the idea you just articulated above to the supply and demand of labor.

Well, that's the rub, isn't it?

The demand for unskilled labor is falling at such a rapid rate that there are those disenfranchised.

We imported millions of illegal aliens to provided unskilled labor, but now the demand for that labor has fallen to a point that it's difficult to sustain the workers we imported.

Illegals brought in to work packing houses and factories have turned to fast food as those other jobs moved to China. America mostly turned a blind eye because it was mostly teens and inner city (that would be black) workers affected.

We have an abundance of supply, with little demand. This drives the VALUE of unskilled labor down. When the cost of labor exceeds the value of labor, then automation is inevitable. Mandating a cost that is non-synchronous to value will either end the activity incurring the cost, or force innovation.

Automated frying machines, automated grills, and customer kiosks are some of the ways that fast food is realigning the cost/value paradigm.

Something my dad taught me long ago. Anything you have to sell, and that includes you skills/labor, isn't worth what you think it is but what someone is willing to pay for it.

 

[Conservative65]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

Minimum wage has not been frozen for eight years. Some have already moved to a $15.00 minimum wage and most states pay above the federal minimum.

No matter what the minimum wage is, many places pay above it anyway since they can't find people to work for minimum wage.

Seattle moved to the higher minimum and within months, those the left told us would do for themselves and step up if they were paid a higher wage started complaining about making more because they're handouts were being cut.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why are you not paying attention. I don't want anyone to be paid more than the value of their production. NOBODY. Everyone should be paid at least fifteen dollars an hour. If the job doesn't produce at least that much value to the economy--ELIMINATE THE JOB. If the industry shuts down. GOOD. There has to be an alternative use of the resources devoted to perpetuating that job or industry that provides a better return to the economy. Hell, that is what economics is all about.

Economics is a company producing products or goods for a profit. It's the only reason they exist. You nor anybody else can dictate what kind of profit or pay they have. if people are willing to work for six bucks an hour, so be it. Nobody is forcing them to do the work and the worker freely accepted the terms of employment.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

No, I don't go down that Libertarian path. I believe there is some value to patents and trade secrets that should be passed to the owners as a reward for their innovation. But that is just it, there must be innovation. Creating a timed released version or changing the color of a pill is not innovation and should not be rewarded with an extended patent. And, to the extent those rewards actually reflect the value of that patent or trade secret to the economy, well I am not opposed nor would I call it rent seeking. That is not what we are talking about in respect to McDonalds.

I'm not sure what you mean "Libertarian Path."

Murray Rothbard would certainly never suggest that patents OR BRANDING be hampered by the state.

McDonalds has built a brand name that holds a great deal of value. To expect or demand the owners of that brand to simply give it away is ignorant. Branding is an important type of innovation, whether that is creating the Coca-Cola brand or one's personal brand through professional reputation. Brand carries reputation and is one of the most critical elements of marketing.

The Marxian concept that we should eschew rents is highly ignorant of how markets work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Seattle moved to the higher minimum and within months, those the left told us would do for themselves and step up if they were paid a higher wage started complaining about making more because they're handouts were being cut.

They wanted to do that over here in Cleveland. They voted it down because they knew it would chase industries out of the city and into the suburbs. Mind you all members of the city are Democrats too, and even they understood this basic concept.

 

[Conservative65]

They are buying the brand name and all the advertising power and recognition that comes with it. it's part of the package. They could open up their own no name burger joint, but they don't. That's the pact they make with McDonald's corporate. Don't go rambling about "economic rent", that is just an excuse people who are lazy and feckless use to get free crap from others.

The real problem is people think they can make an entry level McDonald's job a career that allows for a family and a life of some type of leisure. That is the real crock here.

Only in right wing fantasy, can it be that arbitrary and that capricious; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, simply competes favorably with the cost of social services.

There's a better solution. If the only skill you have get you the current minimum wage, the problem isn't with the one paying but the one offering such shitty skills. Since the one offering the low skills is the cause of the low wage, they shouldn't get a dime to offset what is their fault. If they can't afford food, clothing, shelter, or anything else as a result, that's the best motivator to do better.

Well see, that is where you and I differ. My position is that if you work forty hours a week you deserve the respect and the dignity to be able to support yourself AND at least one other person without government assistance. I don't care if there is skill involved or not. You show up, you do what you are told, and you do it for forty hours a week, you deserve at least that much.

That's where you and I differ. You think someone should be paid a certain amount solely because they breathe and I expect them to earn what they get. If it isn't enough, it's the fault of the one offering shitty skills not the equivalent wages to it.

You deserve what the one doing the paying says you deserve. You don't care about skills. That's why I say there is no reason for some freeloading piece of shit to ever do anything better than the minimum because people like you support paying them a certain amount when they don't. Sad part is you think by doing what you do they'll get better. They don't have to if you enable them to be leeches.

Why are you not paying attention. I don't want anyone to be paid more than the value of their production. NOBODY. Everyone should be paid at least fifteen dollars an hour. If the job doesn't produce at least that much value to the economy--ELIMINATE THE JOB. If the industry shuts down. GOOD. There has to be an alternative use of the resources devoted to perpetuating that job or industry that provides a better return to the economy. Hell, that is what economics is all about.

When you said you don't care about skills and that people should be paid based on them working forty hours, since doing so would produce that very result, you do want someone being paid more than the value they offer.

Not all jobs are worth $15/hour. If you pay a floor sweeper, trash emptier, and toilet cleaner that much, what value do they provide to production. What they do produces zero revenue but costs a lot to do that.

 

[Conservative65]

[

No, I don't go down that Libertarian path. I believe there is some value to patents and trade secrets that should be passed to the owners as a reward for their innovation. But that is just it, there must be innovation. Creating a timed released version or changing the color of a pill is not innovation and should not be rewarded with an extended patent. And, to the extent those rewards actually reflect the value of that patent or trade secret to the economy, well I am not opposed nor would I call it rent seeking. That is not what we are talking about in respect to McDonalds.

I'm not sure what you mean "Libertarian Path."

Murray Rothbard would certainly never suggest that patents OR BRANDING be hampered by the state.

McDonalds has built a brand name that holds a great deal of value. To expect or demand the owners of that brand to simply give it away is ignorant. Branding is an important type of innovation, whether that is creating the Coca-Cola brand or one's personal brand through professional reputation. Brand carries reputation and is one of the most critical elements of marketing.

The Marxian concept that we should eschew rents is highly ignorant of how markets work.

I do. It means he opposes the government not having a say in what a private business does related to pay and benefits.

 

[Winston]

Why are you not paying attention. I don't want anyone to be paid more than the value of their production. NOBODY. Everyone should be paid at least fifteen dollars an hour. If the job doesn't produce at least that much value to the economy--ELIMINATE THE JOB. If the industry shuts down. GOOD. There has to be an alternative use of the resources devoted to perpetuating that job or industry that provides a better return to the economy. Hell, that is what economics is all about.

Economics is a company producing products or goods for a profit. It's the only reason they exist. You nor anybody else can dictate what kind of profit or pay they have. if people are willing to work for six bucks an hour, so be it. Nobody is forcing them to do the work and the worker freely accepted the terms of employment.

No economics is the study of the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. One of the goals, maximize the use of resources. That is what we are talking about here. And "freely accepted" must mean with equal power and equal consideration in a legitimate "free" market. You can't believe that is the case within the current market of low skilled labor.

 

[Southern Dad]

It's about ROI. When labor is cheaper than technology then employers use labor. When it appears labor costs are going to go up, employers look into automation, outsourcing, and offshoring. It's pretty simple.

ROI, or more accurately ROCE in this case.

The capital costs have a tipping point, increased labor costs move the fulcrum.

Exactly. I've been looking at installing a second inserting machine. The only thing that has stopped me for the last few years is the readily available supply of $10 per hour labor. If that went up to $15 per hour, the return on the capital investment costs suddenly comes along much faster. Oh, and it puts some people out of work.

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

They won't. Once the investment is made in the technology, those jobs are gone. They aren't coming back. Employers have been worried about a significant increase in the minimum wage for quite a while now. Liberals have been saying that they wanted $10 or $15 per hour to be the floor. Employers are looking for ways to automate, outsource, or offshore. Then there was that extra whammy from the Obamacare mandate.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No economics is the study of the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. One of the goals, maximize the use of resources. That is what we are talking about here. And "freely accepted" must mean with equal power and equal consideration in a legitimate "free" market. You can't believe that is the case within the current market of low skilled labor.

It's exactly what I believe. If you apply for a job and it doesn't offer you what you need, you simply decline the offer. If an employer can't find workers for the money offered, then he either has to increase his offer or shut down because he can't find enough help.

Maximizing resources is an individual call, not a social or government call. It's none of our business what an employer makes off of his employees or what kind of profit he makes.

 

[Winston]

[

No, I don't go down that Libertarian path. I believe there is some value to patents and trade secrets that should be passed to the owners as a reward for their innovation. But that is just it, there must be innovation. Creating a timed released version or changing the color of a pill is not innovation and should not be rewarded with an extended patent. And, to the extent those rewards actually reflect the value of that patent or trade secret to the economy, well I am not opposed nor would I call it rent seeking. That is not what we are talking about in respect to McDonalds.

I'm not sure what you mean "Libertarian Path."

Murray Rothbard would certainly never suggest that patents OR BRANDING be hampered by the state.

McDonalds has built a brand name that holds a great deal of value. To expect or demand the owners of that brand to simply give it away is ignorant. Branding is an important type of innovation, whether that is creating the Coca-Cola brand or one's personal brand through professional reputation. Brand carries reputation and is one of the most critical elements of marketing.

The Marxian concept that we should eschew rents is highly ignorant of how markets work.

You might want to rethink that Rothbard bit. Yes, he supported Intellectual Property Rights, like copyrights. But patents, not so much. I mean look at your statement, it is almost comical. What do you mean patents be hampered by the state, hell the state is the one handing them out.

And boy howdy do you have it wrong when you say it is Marxism that eschews rent seeking activity. Again, a free market is free of rent seeking activity. That is what a free market is. Marxism sees rent seeking as the inevitable destination of capitalism, the proverbial "rope" that capitalism will provide for it's hanging. The free market concept was initially conceived in order to prevent this rope creation. Now the meaning has been co-opted and rent seeking has begun it's eventual destruction of capitalism.

And Rothbard was concerned with rent seeking, especially the kind granted by government privilege. Here is what he said, simplified as best I can.

Remember, easiest way to explain rent seeking, it is attempting to get more pie without making more pie but by taking more of the pie that is already there. Rothbard was worried that when firms profited more by taking more of the pie, instead of producing more pie, they would increasingly seek ways to get more pie at the expense of the innovation and production required to make more pie. He was worried that society would become increasingly segmented, wealth inequality would explode and poverty would increase. In the end, it all degrades into a freakin mess where nobody is making pie and everyone is fighting like hell for the pie that is already there.

Now, stop for a moment and think about that. Firms are more concerned about generating additional rents instead of creating new products and services. Now think about McDonalds. Who are we kidding. They are having problems. What is this, their third CEO in five years or less? What got McDonald's started? What made them explode?

Innovation. Their "fast food", cheap, and most importantly, consistent quality, was a new innovation. Now tell me, when was the last time McDonald's was innovative? The dollar menu, a copy. Gourmet coffee, chasing Starbucks. All day breakfast, yep--another copy of a competitor. Kiosks, all kinds of gas station truck stop chains have been doing it for years. Table service, are you kidding me.

Nothing, they have had nothing. Mostly, because they have not had to be innovative. Much more rewarding to seek more rents. Now, they got a bunch of rent seeking experts and no innovators.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

What pay cut?.

once they go to kiosks

they aint switching back

why would they

Customer satisfaction will be higher. Order completed in a more prompt manner and correct.

It's unlikely that order fulfillment accuracly will become better or worse; however, order delivery times should decrease. McDonald's burden for receiving orders and accurately communicating them to the food preparation unit will drop dramatically. Additionally, automating and assigning the order placement process function to the customer will enable a whole new level of performance management capabilities on the remaining routine and exceptional operational processes so that the fulfillment window delta between peak and trough periods can be better anticipated and managed.

For example.

• Let's say that in a given area there are several venues that often have publicized large events that result in "over peak" traffic/demand.
  • Inventory levels -- from "raw materials" and "customer ready" standpoints -- can be predicted so as to:
    • move people through more quickly,
    • optimize inventory levels and need to place a rush order for restocking,
    • have at the ready hot and ready go foods rather than having to ask customers to wait while a new batch of, say, fries is cooked,
    • know what food items to have more and less of at those times, and
    • know what impulse buy promotions/point of sale "ticklers" to use at those and other times.
  • Reduce store manager's span of control so they can devote more time to analyzing and managing store performance and less time performing human resource management.
• Cup and condiment dispensers can be attached to the kiosks to aid in managing traffic flow to the pick-up counter and to ensure customers get the items they need.
• At high volume stores, and at inordinately high traffic times, stores can take automated and human orders.
• In certain types of venues -- airports and arenas, for example -- kiosks can be placed at key locations so that customers can order "now" and by the time they walk to the actual store that's, say, closest to their departure gate, the food will be ready for pickup, thereby reducing the delay. (This tactic can add value especially for slower restaurants like Legal Seafoods that can provide food to-go, but generally require customers to have 10-20 minutes of free time. This can also be done via phone app.)

 

[martybegan]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

They are reading the tea leaves and seeing the trending. The "Fight for $15" movement may not have started the automation trend, but they are adding a force to it.

 

[martybegan]

They are buying the brand name and all the advertising power and recognition that comes with it. it's part of the package. They could open up their own no name burger joint, but they don't. That's the pact they make with McDonald's corporate. Don't go rambling about "economic rent", that is just an excuse people who are lazy and feckless use to get free crap from others.

The real problem is people think they can make an entry level McDonald's job a career that allows for a family and a life of some type of leisure. That is the real crock here.

Only in right wing fantasy, can it be that arbitrary and that capricious; a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, simply competes favorably with the cost of social services.

There's a better solution. If the only skill you have get you the current minimum wage, the problem isn't with the one paying but the one offering such shitty skills. Since the one offering the low skills is the cause of the low wage, they shouldn't get a dime to offset what is their fault. If they can't afford food, clothing, shelter, or anything else as a result, that's the best motivator to do better.

Well see, that is where you and I differ. My position is that if you work forty hours a week you deserve the respect and the dignity to be able to support yourself AND at least one other person without government assistance. I don't care if there is skill involved or not. You show up, you do what you are told, and you do it for forty hours a week, you deserve at least that much.

That's where you and I differ. You think someone should be paid a certain amount solely because they breathe and I expect them to earn what they get. If it isn't enough, it's the fault of the one offering shitty skills not the equivalent wages to it.

You deserve what the one doing the paying says you deserve. You don't care about skills. That's why I say there is no reason for some freeloading piece of shit to ever do anything better than the minimum because people like you support paying them a certain amount when they don't. Sad part is you think by doing what you do they'll get better. They don't have to if you enable them to be leeches.

Why are you not paying attention. I don't want anyone to be paid more than the value of their production. NOBODY. Everyone should be paid at least fifteen dollars an hour. If the job doesn't produce at least that much value to the economy--ELIMINATE THE JOB. If the industry shuts down. GOOD. There has to be an alternative use of the resources devoted to perpetuating that job or industry that provides a better return to the economy. Hell, that is what economics is all about.

That's even dumber than wanting to pay people more than they are worth.

 

[martybegan]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Minimum wage has been frozen for eight years and McDonalds is still moving to kiosks

How much of a pay cut do you want before McDonalds takes them out?

A government mandated minimum wage shouldn't exist.

It cane exist, but it should be a true minimum, i.e something a kid makes when he still lives at home. not something you support a family on. Want to support a family? Learn some skillz.

 

[Slyhunter]

No economics is the study of the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. One of the goals, maximize the use of resources. That is what we are talking about here. And "freely accepted" must mean with equal power and equal consideration in a legitimate "free" market. You can't believe that is the case within the current market of low skilled labor.

It's exactly what I believe. If you apply for a job and it doesn't offer you what you need, you simply decline the offer. If an employer can't find workers for the money offered, then he either has to increase his offer or shut down because he can't find enough help.

Maximizing resources is an individual call, not a social or government call. It's none of our business what an employer makes off of his employees or what kind of profit he makes.

importing people from third world countries to hold down wages is cheating.