Maybe the SCOTUS is about to connect some more dots!

[Chuz Life]

No, it's the very definition of social engineering (incentivizing or deterring marriage). I think you bristled at the term. Social Engineering includes, for example, using tax policy to incentive behaviors, like marriage.

Which is precisely what we do.


And so are loin cloths and a life expectancy of 30. Times change.

Well, worry no more, society is already here. We don't need to start a society. We need to live together in the one that exists. In THIS reality. Not in the fever dreams of various mythologies, where people can live forever. God will handle that, if I understand the mythologies correctly..

So, to put it it bluntly... just mind your business on this one. And so will I. If someone proposes gay marriage to you, say no thanks. If someone you love gets gay married, go hide to have your tantrum. Just show the most basic of good manners, as a small child might be asked to do at the grocery store.

It's such a small ask, which makes the anti gay marriage crusaders look very ridiculous. What a bunch of freaking babies.

All that begs the question of whether I feel that "gay marriage" is a necessary part of a society.

I don't.

It also begs the question (IMHO) about whether or not Gay marriage is detrimental to a society. I think I'm on the fence with that one.

That said, my reason for making this thread has been and remains the same.

"Marriage is a legal construct that should be determined as each State sees fit, based on the desires of the people in that State. The Constitution, IMHO, allows for that.

However, IMHO, the wording of the Constitution does not allow for the definitions for what a Person or Personhood to vary in the same way - from one State to another."

To put it a different way, it is INSANE to me that anyone who thinks it is unacceptable for a legal construct like marriage to vary State by State, but are perfectly fine with the ******* PERSONHOOD and basic human rights of children, varying State by State at the same ******* time.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Can you cite the portion of the Constitution which makes civil marriage a right.

Why are you asking me? Ask the court that ruled it is a constitutionally protected right. They wrote out the decision, ya know.

Their first question will be to ask you if you understand what unenumerated rights are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

All that begs the question of whether I feel that "gay marriage" is a necessary part of a society.

No, I think it separates what you feel from what other people experience. You can feel any way you like, and nobody could ever possibly stop you. No, I assure you, the point is that nobody has to care what you feel about it. And vice versa.

Marriage is a legal construct that should be determined as each State sees fit, based on the desires of the people in that State. The Constitution, IMHO, allows for that.

Which is just code for, "i want States to delete gay marriage."

Let's not pretend this is a puritan struggle on your part for the philosophical ideals of States' rights. You would insult everyone's intelligence to do so.

Okay, now that that ruse is put aside, I understand why you want this to happen. Your reasons are just not good, as it affects other people.

"The best way to start a society"... then go start one, we already have one.

"It's old"... so is living in caves instead of houses. Not compelling.

"The best way"... the shaman hath spoken? The best response to this is, "Then do it that way. Who is stopping you?" You haven't made any progress.

I'm not seeing any compelling reason to ban gay marriages. You aren't going to have fewer gay people, thats for sure. You just think they are the ones who should have to cross the street, because you're walking down the same sidewalk. Some "society" that is...

 

[Rogue AI]

Read the Constitution

Read the majority opinion
Connect the dots

Marriage is not in the constitution, but heterosexuals who are of age have always seen it as a right and it has always been treated as such by the government

There are numerous un-enumerated rights in the constitution that you take for granted every day, Rights that are fundamental rights but not explicitly listed in the U.S. Constitution but recognized as protected under the Ninth Amendment. Examples include the right to privacy, the right to travel, and the right to make personal decisions about one's health

Any more "gotcha" questions??

[td]


[/td]​

None of which has anything to do with the 10th amendment and state's right to issue licenses on matters that do not pertain to the federal government. See the various other licenses that have previously discussed. Precedent here lies with the states.

 

[Couchpotato]

Why are you asking me? Ask the court that ruled it is a constitutionally protected right. They wrote out the decision, ya know.

Their first question will be to ask you if you understand what unenumerated rights are.

Are you really this stupid?

If every state legislature voted to rescind any and all laws pertaining to marriage and stopped issuing marriage licenses to everyone. Where in the Constitution would you point to say they couldn’t do that?

 

[Chuz Life]

No, I think it separates what you feel from what other people experience. You can feel any way you like, and nobody could ever possibly stop you. No, I assure you, the point is that nobody has to care what you feel about it. And vice versa.

Did I claim to speak for anyone else?

I put my views out to see if anyone agrees or disagrees.

Same as everyone else does.

Which is just code for, "i want States to delete gay marriage."

That is a wrongful assumption on your part. If I wanted States to delete Gay Marriage, I would have no problems saying so. I have no fear in taking even the most unpopular opinions if that's where the facts lead me.

Let's not pretend this is a puritan struggle on your part for the philosophical ideals of States' rights. You would insult everyone's intelligence to do so.

No idea what you mean by that.

Okay, now that that ruse is put aside, I understand why you want this to happen. Your reasons are just not good, as it affects other people.

"The best way to start a society"... then go start one, we already have one.

"It's old"... so is living in caves instead of houses. Not compelling.

"The best way"... the shaman hath spoken? The best response to this is, "Then do it that way. Who is stopping you?" You haven't made any progress.

I'm not seeing any compelling reason to ban gay marriages. You aren't going to have fewer gay people, thats for sure. You just think they are the ones who should have to cross the street, because you're walking down the same sidewalk. Some "society" that is...

You are tugging so hard at my heart strings. . . Now I'm thinking of those poor same sex siblings who might want to marry. . . or those groups of three or four who think they should have a right to marry as a group, as well.

Who would either of us be to deny THEM their Constitutional right to "marry?"

On what basis could any State ever say "no?"

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If every state legislature voted to rescind any and all laws pertaining to marriage and stopped issuing marriage licenses to everyone.

Then there would be no more institutionalized marriage. Okay, falls right in line with what I said. The right to access to this system then becomes moot, for heteros and for homos.

okay, burn down the gym, because you lost. So now we all play basketball outside.



Pat yourself on the back, I guess.

 

[Couchpotato]

Then there would be no more institutionalized marriage. Okay, falls right in line with what I said. The right to access to this system then becomes moot, for heteros and for homos.

okay, burn down the gym, because you lost. So now we all play basketball outside.



Pat yourself on the back, I guess.

You said marriage was a right. A Constitutionally protected one. If that’s the case how could state legislatures make it go away?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did I claim to speak for anyone else?

I am pretty directly pointing out that you speak ONLY for you. And that you are free to think anything you like. Not ONE single soul is asking you to think anything, much less asking you to think gay marriage is necessary. You are free to hate gay marriage with all of your being. But also try to act like a normal adult and have manners, like you have been around people before.

It's not a big ask. Just mind your business.

That is a wrongful assumption on your part.

No, it is spot on, and I am not going to participate in your ruse that you argue for this to argue for states' rights. You are arguing for it so that States can have their way with it. And you have made it clear which way that is. This transparent ruse didn't work with abortion, and it won't work with gay marriage. Everyone knows exactly what you want and why you want it. Including you.

Now I'm thinking of those poor same sex siblings who might want to marry

Then you need to get your mind out of the gutter. Giving gays equal access to a system that does not allow sibling marriage does not then give anyone the right to marry their sibling. And I really shouldn't have to spell that out for you.

This nonsense from you is just the crusty old pulpit propaganda line of conflating homosexuality with incest and bestiality. The pedo conflation wasn't far from the front of your mind too, I bet.

You have all of the old chestnuts in your bag, I bet.

 

[Chuz Life]

It's not a big ask. Just mind your business.

I'm not going to silence my views to meet your expectations for me to mind my own business.

You can ask but I'm not going to.

No, it is spot on, and I am not going to participate in your ruse that you argue for this to argue for states' rights. You are arguing for it so that States can have their way with it. And you have made it clear which way that is. This transparent ruse didn't work with abortion, and it won't work with gay marriage. Everyone knows exactly what you want and why you want it. Including you.

It's not a ruse.

There is no deception or any attempt to deceive in my posts. I've been very transparent with my reasoning.

Then you need to get your mind out of the gutter. Giving gays equal access to a system that does not allow sibling marriage does not then give anyone the right to marry their sibling. And I really shouldn't have to spell that out for you.

I really would like to know what the Constitutional argument would be for allowing two unrelated same sex citizens to marry but forbidding two same sex siblings from marrying as well.

This nonsense from you just the crusty old pulpit propaganda line of conflating homosexuality with incest and bestiality. The pedo conflation wasn't far from the front of your mind too, I bet.

You have all of the old chestnuts in your bag, I bet.

Your personal attacks only confirm that my arguments are making the point that I was aiming to raise.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm not going to silence my views to meet your expectations for me to mind my own business.

Not asking you to be silent. Not ever. Just have the basic, decent manners of a decent human being. Mind your business.

It's not a big ask.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Your personal attacks only confirm that my arguments are making the point that I was aiming to raise.

It wasn't a perosnal attack. It was a direct attack on your propaganda. And you ignored it. And we both know why. You dusted off the old pulpit chestnut, homosexuality = incest. Now THAT is almost older than government, haha

 

[Chuz Life]

Not asking you to be silent. Not ever. Just have the basic, decent manners of a decent human being. Mind your business.

It's not a big ask.

If my not being silent offends you?

Just heed your own advice.

MYOB!

 

[Chuz Life]

It wasn't a perosnal attack. It was a direct attack on your propaganda. And you ignored it. And we both know why. You dusted off the old pulpit chestnut, homosexuality = incest. Now THAT is almost older than government, haha

You are dodging the question.

What is the Constitutional basis for denying two same sex siblings from marrying one another?

Stop diverting and dragging other shit into it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If my not being silent offends you?

Well, that would kind of depend on when and where. Are you talking about harassing people at a restaurant? Yeah, then I would probably tell you to shut the **** up, and then hope you did. I would be offended by your behavior, not your thoughts. Please keep that distinction in mind.

Standing outside with a sign? I would probably just make fun of you. But I would defend your right to do it, no matter how offended I am or am not, even though I don't think some nutter standing outside a building with a sign against gay marriage is a "necessary" item in our society. I, however, DO think that free speech is necessary. That everyone has access to it. Same for marriage. Gay love is love.

Posting on the internet? post away. i don't want you to be silent. I want the spotlight to be RIGHT ON you and people of like minds. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I would put you on every TV show every day, so that people could understand what is happening, right now, in this country. Why they need to get out and vote. The way they vote is up to them.

 

[Chuz Life]

I would put you on every TV show every day, so that people could understand what is happening, right now, in this country. Why they need to get out and vote. The way they vote is up to them.

Please do!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Please do!

Agreed!

Let's see how your own social engineering proposals fly with the public. Especially the young people. You understand that is what you argue, right? Tell us more about the "best way" to start (or, did you mean, seed? Let's see how far down the rabbit hole goes...) and manage society. And I will show you your social engineering plan.

You remember that some people did exactly this, right? Like, a year ago? remember how the American public recoiled, and the presidential candidate claimed to know nothing about it?

Surely you don't think all of those same things are suddenly popular.

 

[Chuz Life]

This nonsense from you is just the crusty old pulpit propaganda line of conflating homosexuality with incest and bestiality. The pedo conflation wasn't far from the front of your mind too, I bet.

You have all of the old chestnuts in your bag, I bet.

It wasn't a perosnal attack. It was a direct attack on your propaganda. And you ignored it. And we both know why. You dusted off the old pulpit chestnut, homosexuality = incest. Now THAT is almost older than government, haha

Good to know that none of that was "personal."

 

[Chuz Life]

Agreed!

Let's see how your own social engineering proposals fly with the public. Especially the young people. You understand that is what you argue, right? Tell us more about the "best way" to start (or, did you mean, seed? Let's see how far down the rabbit hole goes...) and manage society. And I will show you your social engineering plan.

You remember that some people did exactly this, right? Like, a year ago? remember how the American public recoiled, and the presidential candidate claimed to know nothing about it?

Surely you don't think all of those same things are suddenly popular.

It's more the law makers and SCOTUS that I would like to reach, but sure! Go for it!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Good to know that none of that was "personal."

Saying you said something you literally just said doesn't make it personal. You said it. It was kind of nasty, for the reasons I mentioned. If you take that personally, that's not my problem.

And yes, I bet you do have all of these old chestnuts in your bag. I know, "the Bible says so" is in there, somewhere. I am trying to directly tell you why these things are not compelling, and why they should not be recognized as a basis for laws.

And that IS, in fact, what you are arguing. That the laws you want would be better, and why. okay. I like your honesty, even if accidental, at times.

And you think society should be engineered in this manner. I think that is futile and is based on old, magical thinking. I also find it to be cruel.

You don't have to agree with me. I'm not even trying to convince you to do so.

I only ask that you leave people alone. Mind your business, in your daily behaviors. Let gay love be gay marriage and pay as much 'mind' to it as you like. I assure you, it will be more than I pay to it.

It's not a big ask. Yes, I will keep saying it.