MASSIVE SHOOTING in MAINE RIGHT NOW and shooter on the lose

[M14 Shooter]

So you support people who hear voices telling them to kill being allowed to keep their guns? Y

The actual question is if people who are simply diagnosed as mentally ill retain their rights.
Widely-held is the premise people who have been diagnosed mentally ill are too dangerous to themselves and others to have a gun.
However true that may be if they are indeed that dangerous, then they are, necessarily, dangerous to themselves and other, period, and should be taken into custody for the same reason they should be kept away from guns.

Should that be the case?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So you support people who hear voices telling them to kill being allowed to keep their guns? Your yellow flag laws allowed nobody to get involved. Maines yellow flag doesn’t require any reporting unless the person is forcibly institutionalized. This meant all Mr Card had to do is check himself in voluntarily, which is exactly what he did, and the mental health professional wasn’t required to report him. Face it your yellow flag law failed miserably.

Again in most cases yellow flag is ok. The source of the complaint needs to be considered. But this was a clear cut case of mental illness and having a red flag law also on the books would have saved lives. Anyone hearing voices should not own guns because something is seriously wrong mentally, physically or both. The proof is Mr Cards rampage. Again the founding fathers who created the Constitution would agree because crazy is crazy then or 200+ years later. This guy was nuts! His extreme mental illness forfeited his right to own a gun.

I am saying that red flag laws would have accomplished exactly the same.

Can you tell me right now, how many guns do I own and where are they located? Everyone would be in the same situation. I know where my guns are, but no one else does. How do you resolve that conundrum if my cheese slips off my cracker?

The same situation was the case with the transgender shooter in Nashville. Her parents thought she had no weapons. Little did they know what she would do with the ones he/she hid.

 

[2aguy]

So you support people who hear voices telling them to kill being allowed to keep their guns? Your yellow flag laws allowed nobody to get involved. Maines yellow flag doesn’t require any reporting unless the person is forcibly institutionalized. This meant all Mr Card had to do is check himself in voluntarily, which is exactly what he did, and the mental health professional wasn’t required to report him. Face it your yellow flag law failed miserably.

Again in most cases yellow flag is ok. The source of the complaint needs to be considered. But this was a clear cut case of mental illness and having a red flag law also on the books would have saved lives. Anyone hearing voices should not own guns because something is seriously wrong mentally, physically or both. The proof is Mr Cards rampage. Again the founding fathers who created the Constitution would agree because crazy is crazy then or 200+ years later. This guy was nuts! His extreme mental illness forfeited his right to own a gun.

Nope, the Yellow Flag law protocols were activated, and the police dropped the ball.....the ball would have been dropped with Red Flag laws as well...the police failed in their part of the process and are going to be sued into the ground.

Nope.....the Yellow Flag law simply requires a pschiatric evaluation before the police can go to a judge and get a court order.....he was in the facility, he was evaluated, and his psychiatric Doctors told his military chain of command he was dangerous, the military chain of command called the police, and the police failed to pull his guns.....

The psychiatric evaluation was done.....that is the first part of the Yellow Flag law.....the police were notified...that is the second part of the Yellow Flag law...that was done...the police failed to take his guns...

You are just wrong.

 

[Marianne]

The actual question is if people who are simply diagnosed as mentally ill retain their rights.
Widely-held is the premise people who have been diagnosed mentally ill are too dangerous to themselves and others to have a gun.
However true that may be if they are indeed that dangerous, then they are, necessarily, dangerous to themselves and other, period, and should be taken into custody for the same reason they should be kept away from guns.

Should that be the case?

Depends on the mental illness and how it presents itself. I have OCD. I landed in the hospital because of it. I was afraid of dirt and germs. I wasn’t going to kill someone or myself necessarily. I did wash my hands until they bled and stopped eating and almost stopped drinking. I was a danger to myself somewhat, I was more of a danger to the finish on my furniture that I literally scrubbed off. In my case a gun wouldn’t have been a problem however perhaps a yellow flag law might be considered in my case, my gun locked up by my husband until my OCD was under control, just to be on the safe side. I didn’t need to be taken into custody. I already had an appointment with a doctor the following week. I knew something was wrong. I just needed some Ativan to get me through until the appointment.

Mr Card was a completely different mental illness. Voices are a serious thing. Threatening to kill or the urge to kill is a serious thing. That type of illness needs a red flag law. He was a danger by his own admission. His guns should have been taken and yes he should have been forcibly committed for his own sake as well as others. If he had Mr Card and his victims might be alive today.

The truth is for centuries people in this country were locked up in asylums by their families. Given residential care. Now it was primitive bordering on barbaric care because nothing could be done. Today insurance companies decide who gets care and how much. Residential facilities closed down in part because insurance companies didn’t want to pay for them. Out patient is cheaper so the money decides not what’s in the best interest of the patient. I’m curious if Mr Cards insurance company was responsible for him leaving the mental health facility; if they gave him the boot because he was about to lose coverage,or if he simply checked himself out.

Wether guns get confiscated because of mental illness should be case by case decision.

 

[2aguy]

Depends on the mental illness and how it presents itself. I have OCD. I landed in the hospital because of it. I was afraid of dirt and germs. I wasn’t going to kill someone or myself necessarily. I did wash my hands until they bled and stopped eating and almost stopped drinking. I was a danger to myself somewhat, I was more of a danger to the finish on my furniture that I literally scrubbed off. In my case a gun wouldn’t have been a problem however perhaps a yellow flag law might be considered in my case, my gun locked up by my husband until my OCD was under control, just to be on the safe side. I didn’t need to be taken into custody. I already had an appointment with a doctor the following week. I knew something was wrong. I just needed some Ativan to get me through until the appointment.

Mr Card was a completely different mental illness. Voices are a serious thing. Threatening to kill or the urge to kill is a serious thing. That type of illness needs a red flag law. He was a danger by his own admission. His guns should have been taken and yes he should have been forcibly committed for his own sake as well as others. If he had Mr Card and his victims might be alive today.

The truth is for centuries people in this country were locked up in asylums by their families. Given residential care. Now it was primitive bordering on barbaric care because nothing could be done. Today insurance companies decide who gets care and how much. Residential facilities closed down in part because insurance companies didn’t want to pay for them. Out patient is cheaper so the money decides not what’s in the best interest of the patient. I’m curious if Mr Cards insurance company was responsible for him leaving the mental health facility; if they gave him the boot because he was about to lose coverage,or if he simply checked himself out.

Wether guns get confiscated because of mental illness should be case by case decision.

The shooter was already reported under the Yellow Flag law...what part of that do you not understand....he had already been evaluated and that evaluation was given to the police...the police failed to stop him, the same they would have failed under the Red Flag law...

What do you not understand?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Not saying that it doesn't hold the weight of law or whether the sign is legal or not, what I'm saying is if you are going to post a sign like that, otherwise telling people that they can't bring protection into the business, then the business is responsible to protect the people while on their premises. That can be in the form of hired security or management being armed or whatever it's supposed to be, but telling the people via a sign that they have no need of their concealed weapon is taking on the responsibility for their safety themselves as business owners.

It's best not to have a sign like that, and therefore it best to depend on the public who legally carry concealed to be welcomed into the establishment..... FACT.

Gun free zones due to fear of a gun being carried by law abiding citizens, uhhhh is as chicken shite as it gets, and the results bare that out.

In some places, it's legally required by state law to prohibit guns if a business serves alcohol. (Which the bowling alley did.)

 

[MarathonMike]

Another nutcase who acquired guns legally goes on a shooting spree. When are you gun control pushers going to admit you are wrong? How about work on outlawing mental illness.

 

[Marianne]

The shooter was already reported under the Yellow Flag law...what part of that do you not understand....he had already been evaluated and that evaluation was given to the police...the police failed to stop him, the same they would have failed under the Red Flag law...

What do you not understand?

What I don’t understand is how, if he was reported, it could possibly take this long to act. That’s the problem I’m having.

Would it have failed under red flag? The process is way longer under yellow flag than red flag. Yellow flag has a lot of back and forth trying not to step on Constitutional rights which is ok in most cases but not good with mental illness.

If it was reported what took so long eh? There’s no back and forth with red flag. It goes before a judge and done. The yellow flag paper work on this man is probably sitting on someone’s desk waiting for processing because there’s several steps. This guy was in the mental health facility LAST SUMMER for two weeks, we are about to go into November and the guy still had his guns. That’s unacceptable. This guy was bat shit crazy, everyone knew it and nothing was done except a silencer wasn’t sold to him because he admitted to having been in a mental health facility. What good is that? Silencers don’t kill people, people do. The yellow flag law is a fail for people suffering from mental health issues. Too long a process is too late for someone having a psychotic break. People having a psychotic break need immediate same day attention, two days tops. Those guns should have been gone by the time he left the hospital. What part of that don’t YOU understand?

 

[Marianne]

Nope, the Yellow Flag law protocols were activated, and the police dropped the ball.....the ball would have been dropped with Red Flag laws as well...the police failed in their part of the process and are going to be sued into the ground.

Nope.....the Yellow Flag law simply requires a pschiatric evaluation before the police can go to a judge and get a court order.....he was in the facility, he was evaluated, and his psychiatric Doctors told his military chain of command he was dangerous, the military chain of command called the police, and the police failed to pull his guns.....

The psychiatric evaluation was done.....that is the first part of the Yellow Flag law.....the police were notified...that is the second part of the Yellow Flag law...that was done...the police failed to take his guns...

You are just wrong.

We’ll see when this goes to court.

 

[Marianne]

I am saying that red flag laws would have accomplished exactly the same.

Can you tell me right now, how many guns do I own and where are they located? Everyone would be in the same situation. I know where my guns are, but no one else does. How do you resolve that conundrum if my cheese slips off my cracker?

The same situation was the case with the transgender shooter in Nashville. Her parents thought she had no weapons. Little did they know what she would do with the ones he/she hid.

If you lived in Connecticut the government would know. Not only do they know how many I have they know how many bullets it holds. Why? Because mine are legally owned. In Connecticut because of Sandy Hook you have to jump through hoops to get a legal gun. I have to go through a gun course, apply to both the city I live in and the state. The city has its own requirements. Meet all requirements for both, be fingerprinted, background check,and pay a fortune for the pleasure. Then and only then am I allowed to purchase the gun which has to only hold 10 bullets. Anything above that is considered an assault weapon. I have a handgun that was grandfathered in that holds 16. I can load it with all 16 as long as it stays inside my house. If I leave the house I can only have 10 bullets. Connecticut doesn’t allow assault rifles at all which I think is unconstitutional but what are you going to do. All this is well documented so yes the police know what I have. As for where my guns are stored Connecticut has Ethan’s law so the police would know to look for the gun safe. It’s not rocket science. The only guns unaccounted for are illegal guns.

Yes it’s government overreach however considering how stupid people are these days and let’s face it, anyone who would participate in tik tok challenges where you swallow tide pods would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks, it’s 100% necessary. Our society is in mental decline. If other states don’t have that maybe they shouldn’t be so loosey goosey with gun safety and laws. I have no doubt Connecticuts red flag laws would have my guns gone in about one to two days. Once you live through something like Sandy Hook you don’t want to repeat it. People tend make sure they don’t drop that particular ball because a classroom full of dead kids is horrible to live through.

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https://www.cga.ct.gov/2022/rpt/pdf/2022-R-0257.pdf

 

[2aguy]

What I don’t understand is how, if he was reported, it could possibly take this long to act. That’s the problem I’m having.

Would it have failed under red flag? The process is way longer under yellow flag than red flag. Yellow flag has a lot of back and forth trying not to step on Constitutional rights which is ok in most cases but not good with mental illness.

If it was reported what took so long eh? There’s no back and forth with red flag. It goes before a judge and done. The yellow flag paper work on this man is probably sitting on someone’s desk waiting for processing because there’s several steps. This guy was in the mental health facility LAST SUMMER for two weeks, we are about to go into November and the guy still had his guns. That’s unacceptable. This guy was bat shit crazy, everyone knew it and nothing was done except a silencer wasn’t sold to him because he admitted to having been in a mental health facility. What good is that? Silencers don’t kill people, people do. The yellow flag law is a fail for people suffering from mental health issues. Too long a process is too late for someone having a psychotic break. People having a psychotic break need immediate same day attention, two days tops. Those guns should have been gone by the time he left the hospital. What part of that don’t YOU understand?

The Yellow Flag Protocols had already been met....he had been evaluated and the police had been alerted.......the police dropped the ball.

 

[2aguy]

If you lived in Connecticut the government would know. Not only do they know how many I have they know how many bullets it holds. Why? Because mine are legally owned. In Connecticut because of Sandy Hook you have to jump through hoops to get a legal gun. I have to go through a gun course, apply to both the city I live in and the state. The city has its own requirements. Meet all requirements for both, be fingerprinted, background check,and pay a fortune for the pleasure. Then and only then am I allowed to purchase the gun which has to only hold 10 bullets. Anything above that is considered an assault weapon. I have a handgun that was grandfathered in that holds 16. I can load it with all 16 as long as it stays inside my house. If I leave the house I can only have 10 bullets. Connecticut doesn’t allow assault rifles at all which I think is unconstitutional but what are you going to do. All this is well documented so yes the police know what I have. As for where my guns are stored Connecticut has Ethan’s law so the police would know to look for the gun safe. It’s not rocket science. The only guns unaccounted for are illegal guns.

Yes it’s government overreach however considering how stupid people are these days and let’s face it, anyone who would participate in tik tok challenges where you swallow tide pods would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks, it’s 100% necessary. Our society is in mental decline. If other states don’t have that maybe they shouldn’t be so loosey goosey with gun safety and laws. I have no doubt Connecticuts red flag laws would have my guns gone in about one to two days. Once you live through something like Sandy Hook you don’t want to repeat it. People tend make sure they don’t drop that particular ball because a classroom full of dead kids is horrible to live through.

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portal.ct.gov

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2022/rpt/pdf/2022-R-0257.pdf

Yeah...those laws you cited are really stupid.

 

[eagle1462010]

If you lived in Connecticut the government would know. Not only do they know how many I have they know how many bullets it holds. Why? Because mine are legally owned. In Connecticut because of Sandy Hook you have to jump through hoops to get a legal gun. I have to go through a gun course, apply to both the city I live in and the state. The city has its own requirements. Meet all requirements for both, be fingerprinted, background check,and pay a fortune for the pleasure. Then and only then am I allowed to purchase the gun which has to only hold 10 bullets. Anything above that is considered an assault weapon. I have a handgun that was grandfathered in that holds 16. I can load it with all 16 as long as it stays inside my house. If I leave the house I can only have 10 bullets. Connecticut doesn’t allow assault rifles at all which I think is unconstitutional but what are you going to do. All this is well documented so yes the police know what I have. As for where my guns are stored Connecticut has Ethan’s law so the police would know to look for the gun safe. It’s not rocket science. The only guns unaccounted for are illegal guns.

Yes it’s government overreach however considering how stupid people are these days and let’s face it, anyone who would participate in tik tok challenges where you swallow tide pods would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks, it’s 100% necessary. Our society is in mental decline. If other states don’t have that maybe they shouldn’t be so loosey goosey with gun safety and laws. I have no doubt Connecticuts red flag laws would have my guns gone in about one to two days. Once you live through something like Sandy Hook you don’t want to repeat it. People tend make sure they don’t drop that particular ball because a classroom full of dead kids is horrible to live through.

404 Error Page

portal.ct.gov

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2022/rpt/pdf/2022-R-0257.pdf

And as soon as they find a way to ban them all they will take your guns or else.

Happened in Canada. Worked with a guy long ago 20 or so years. Kicked his front door in to take his registered guns.

Eventually that is what they want.

I refuse to be punished for the crimes of others.

 

[Marianne]

Yeah...those laws you cited are really stupid.

let’s see how stupid Maine thinks they are now.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Yellow Flag Protocols had already been met....he had been evaluated and the police had been alerted.......the police dropped the ball.

Yelliw and red flag laws are stepping stones to confiscation. That is their purpose.

 

[2aguy]

let’s see how stupid Maine thinks they are now.

Yeah....did they stop this guy? Do you think he would have only used 10 bullets?

The gun free zone was the problem, not you owning a rifle and 30 round magazines.

 

[Marianne]

And as soon as they find a way to ban them all they will take your guns or else.

Happened in Canada. Worked with a guy long ago 20 or so years. Kicked his front door in to take his registered guns.

Eventually that is what they want.

I refuse to be punished for the crimes of others.

I agree with you except when it comes to lunatics. This guys was clearly nuts. Adam Lanza was also clearly nuts. Many of the mass shootings are done by two groups, gangbangers shooting up rivals and nutters. When it comes to the mentally ill we need immediate, same day action and better mental health care. That’s all I’m saying. Red flag ASAP as opposed to slower yellow flag. Less processing and more action, done in 24 hours for the safety of society. Not only should Mr Cards guns been confiscated but he should have been committed rather than spending two weeks in the psychiatric hospital and released. How many times do we allow the mentally ill continue to push us in front of trains, shoot us,threaten our lives on the subway, stab us, or run us over before we get the picture. Some people should not be allowed to run free in society.

 

[2aguy]

I agree with you except when it comes to lunatics. This guys was clearly nuts. Adam Lanza was also clearly nuts. Many of the mass shootings are done by two groups, gangbangers shooting up rivals and nutters. When it comes to the mentally ill we need immediate, same day action and better mental health care. That’s all I’m saying. Red flag ASAP as opposed to slower yellow flag. Less processing and more action, done in 24 hours for the safety of society. Not only should Mr Cards guns been confiscated but he should have been committed rather than spending two weeks in the psychiatric hospital and released. How many times do we allow the mentally ill continue to push us in front of trains, shoot us,threaten our lives on the subway, stab us, or run us over before we get the picture. Some people should not be allowed to run free in society.

They had several weeks to take this guys guns.....

Number of mass public shootings in 2022?

12

12 people out of over 350 million....and you want to give the democrats the ability to take your guns away from you, and then you have to hire a lawyer to get them back?

You just do not want to understand that the Yellow Flag laws were more than enough to deal with this guy, and they failed......Red Flag laws would have failed to, since the police didn't take him as a serious threat.

 

[eagle1462010]

I agree with you except when it comes to lunatics. This guys was clearly nuts. Adam Lanza was also clearly nuts. Many of the mass shootings are done by two groups, gangbangers shooting up rivals and nutters. When it comes to the mentally ill we need immediate, same day action and better mental health care. That’s all I’m saying. Red flag ASAP as opposed to slower yellow flag. Less processing and more action, done in 24 hours for the safety of society. Not only should Mr Cards guns been confiscated but he should have been committed rather than spending two weeks in the psychiatric hospital and released. How many times do we allow the mentally ill continue to push us in front of trains, shoot us,threaten our lives on the subway, stab us, or run us over before we get the picture. Some people should not be allowed to run free in society.

Laws were there. Didnt stop it.

Changing to Red doesnt mean the next one will work either. Criminals arent gonna register guns. Only Law abiding citizens who havent committed a crime. The left wants to punish innocent people for the acts of crime.

That is not what this country was ever meant to be.

 

[Marianne]

Yeah....did they stop this guy? Do you think he would have only used 10 bullets?

The gun free zone was the problem, not you owning a rifle and 30 round magazines.

The problem wasn’t the gun, the gun free zone, the number of bullets. The problem was this guy was bat shit crazy and he should have been institutionalized and his guns taken away. That didn’t happen. The human is always the problem. They literally had months to stop this guy but didn’t bother. Now people are dead. Again let’s see what Maine does now.