Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick signs sweeping anti-NRA gun bill into law

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Under the new guidelines, Massachusetts police chiefs who desire to deny or revoke a FID license for a shotgun or rifle would have to petition the court system with a written notice as to the reason for the requested denial. The court, in turn must find that the chief has “reliable, articulable, and credible information” that the applicant “could potentially create a risk to public safety” before granting such a request.

And what constitutes “reliable, articulable, and credible information”?

Citizens cannot be denied their civil liberties simply because government 'thinks' or 'believes' or 'feels' that someone 'might' do something wrong. The FBI NICS E-Check system is perfectly adequate to determine whether or not a potential gun owner should indeed be in possession of a firearm, there is no need for permits, licenses (save that of concealed carry), or prior authorization by state or local officials, where such requirements clearly manifest an undue burden to exercising the Second Amendment right.

 

[RDD_1210]

Well, the NYPD is not under the control of the Massachusetts Legislature. Are we debating NYC or Mass?

The police chiefs already have the discretion to deny a FID for a handgun purchase. I asked if they are abusing this discretion. All you have to do is verify that they are abusing their discretion and I'm on board with you. If they're not abusing their discretion, if all of their decisions are sound and upheld by courts, for instance, everyone who has been denied has made public threats, has a restraining order against them, has been in a mental hospital, then I'm not seeing the problem with extending the same logic to long guns.

What's the problem in MA? Is it a real problem or a hypothetical problem?

If it's a hypothetical problem, meaning that existing practice isn't objectionable, then that implies that existing practice needs to be scrapped and all restrictions on everyone be lifted.

I don't want a dude who thinks he's Maldor from from planet Gripnos walking around zapping humans who look like Begnoids who he thinks are the eternal enemies of the Gripnos species. If this guy is so far gone, then I could end up on the wrong of a gun held by a delusional man.

This site does not welcome common sense viewpoints. Please take that nonsense elsewhere.

any time a gun grabber uses the term "common sense" they are advocating tyranny, plain and simple.

Rikurzhen is a "gun grabber"?

 

[RDD_1210]

Watch gun violence in mass increase and kidrock claim it's all the nra's fault

And when it doesn't, we won't hear a peep from you. That's for sure.

 

[The Rabbi]

Under the new guidelines, Massachusetts police chiefs who desire to deny or revoke a FID license for a shotgun or rifle would have to petition the court system with a written notice as to the reason for the requested denial. The court, in turn must find that the chief has “reliable, articulable, and credible information” that the applicant “could potentially create a risk to public safety” before granting such a request.

And what constitutes “reliable, articulable, and credible information”?

Citizens cannot be denied their civil liberties simply because government 'thinks' or 'believes' or 'feels' that someone 'might' do something wrong. The FBI NICS E-Check system is perfectly adequate to determine whether or not a potential gun owner should indeed be in possession of a firearm, there is no need for permits, licenses (save that of concealed carry), or prior authorization by state or local officials, where such requirements clearly manifest an undue burden to exercising the Second Amendment right.

Hell just froze over. I agree with you 100%. What the devil have you done with Clayton??

 

[martybegan]

This site does not welcome common sense viewpoints. Please take that nonsense elsewhere.

any time a gun grabber uses the term "common sense" they are advocating tyranny, plain and simple.

Rikurzhen is a "gun grabber"?

No, you are.

 

[paulitician]

Anti-2nd Amendment, not 'Anti-NRA.' It will be challenged.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Anti-2nd Amendment, not 'Anti-NRA.' It will be challenged.

I don't see how any court can say that giving one unelected person the sole discretion whether or not hundreds or possibly thousands of people are allowed to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights is not a violation of the Constitution.

No one person can be allowed to have that much power.

 

[paulitician]

Anti-2nd Amendment, not 'Anti-NRA.' It will be challenged.

I don't see how any court can say that giving one unelected person the sole discretion whether or not hundreds or possibly thousands of people are allowed to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights is not a violation of the Constitution.

No one person can be allowed to have that much power.

This will be challenged. The Anti-2nd Amendment Communists/Progressives are gonna keep pushing. Americans will have to stay vigilant and continue fighting them.

 

[Anathema]

Folks, I'm working on getting the TRUTH about this legislation put together for people to read. This bill was actually APPLAUDED by the Gun Owners Action League of Massachusetts. No, it wasn't perfect, but it did make some MAJOR positive changes to the law, which MSNBC has chosen to ignore. I'll have those summarized and a link to the Gun Owners' Action League - GOAL.org - "Protecting Your Freedom Begins Here" update from last weekend about this legislation shortly.

 

[Anathema]

Here are the major points from GOAL's summation of the new law. This is not necessarily totally inclusive, and reflects the OPINIONS of the Gun Owner's Action League. Please remember that as you read it.

Positive changes:

Juniors: this now allows trainers to provide firearms to junior shooters and hunters with parental consent. Juniors are now able to apply for their FID card a year early (age 14) and receive their card at 15.

Pepper Spray: Person over the age of 18 will no longer need an FID card to purchase pepper spray. 15-17 year olds can still possess – but must have an FID card

FID: Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card….. The language also includes defined time limits, if there is no decision rendered in the prescribed amount of time, the license will be issued.

LTC: The Class B License was eliminated; going forward there is only one License to Carry. (LTC). Chiefs now have to put denials in writing so that the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court. Also, for the first time gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court.

Both licenses: The term "prohibited person" is now being used for both licenses – instead of "unsuitable". This change in the language provides a much-needed change in framework around who is prohibited. Also the 90-day grace period - license renewal issue was fixed. Gun owners will now receive a receipt upon renewal, which makes the license valid until the new license is received.

Mental Health: Language was added protecting people who voluntary seek mental health help preventing them from being listed as a prohibited person. This also gives protection to people who voluntarily seek help for drug and alcohol abuse issues.

Olympic-style Handguns: There will be exemptions for the dealer transfer of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth. These were previously not legal to transfer by licensed dealers in the Commonwealth.

Curios and Relic Collectors: 01 FFL’s can now legally transfer C&R handguns and firearms to licensed C&R dealers. (03 FFL)

Online portal: Created online portal for face-to-face transfers, preserving private sales

Confiscation: We added language-providing protection of property for firearms owners. Now, if firearms are confiscated, the licensing authority is required, at that time, to inform the person in writing of their ability to transfer their firearms to an independent licensed individual

Lost & Stolen Firearms: GOAL added language so that a person who, in good faith, reports lost or stolen firearms will have protection, so that the licensing authority cannot consider them a prohibited person.

Military Personnel: We extended the time period an active duty military member has to become licensed, or renew their license from 90 to 180 days. We exempted active duty military members from having to take the mandatory gun safety training classes.


The down side – what we didn’t like.

MA Police Chiefs now have more power over license applicants via applying suitability to FID cards.

Increased penalties for violating storage laws.

Increased penalties for being in possession of a firearm on school grounds.

Here's the link to the story from GOAL..... http://goal.org/alert-defeat-chapter-180-part2.htmlutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed+GoalNews-GunOwnersActionLeague+GOAL+News+-+Gun+Owners+Action+League

 

[RDD_1210]

any time a gun grabber uses the term "common sense" they are advocating tyranny, plain and simple.

Rikurzhen is a "gun grabber"?

No, you are.

Interesting. Thanks for telling me what my stance is.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't see the problems here. The Police Chiefs ALREADY have the ability to withhold a FID for handguns, so what makes the extension to long guns so problematic from a legal perspective?

Or.... priests have been molesting little boys for so long, what's the issue with them expanding to little girls as well?

An agent of the state having the power to make an arbitrary judgement as to can and cannot exercise a right should be unacceptable to everyone, regardless of the right.

 

[martybegan]

Rikurzhen is a "gun grabber"?

No, you are.

Interesting. Thanks for telling me what my stance is.

You are welcome.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't understand how conservatives could say that this is a bad thing.

Because you do not understand the concept of constitutionally protected rights.

 

[martybegan]

Here are the major points from GOAL's summation of the new law. This is not necessarily totally inclusive, and reflects the OPINIONS of the Gun Owner's Action League. Please remember that as you read it.

Positive changes:

Juniors: this now allows trainers to provide firearms to junior shooters and hunters with parental consent. Juniors are now able to apply for their FID card a year early (age 14) and receive their card at 15.

Pepper Spray: Person over the age of 18 will no longer need an FID card to purchase pepper spray. 15-17 year olds can still possess – but must have an FID card

FID: Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card….. The language also includes defined time limits, if there is no decision rendered in the prescribed amount of time, the license will be issued.

LTC: The Class B License was eliminated; going forward there is only one License to Carry. (LTC). Chiefs now have to put denials in writing so that the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court. Also, for the first time gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court.

Both licenses: The term "prohibited person" is now being used for both licenses – instead of "unsuitable". This change in the language provides a much-needed change in framework around who is prohibited. Also the 90-day grace period - license renewal issue was fixed. Gun owners will now receive a receipt upon renewal, which makes the license valid until the new license is received.

Mental Health: Language was added protecting people who voluntary seek mental health help preventing them from being listed as a prohibited person. This also gives protection to people who voluntarily seek help for drug and alcohol abuse issues.

Olympic-style Handguns: There will be exemptions for the dealer transfer of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth. These were previously not legal to transfer by licensed dealers in the Commonwealth.

Curios and Relic Collectors: 01 FFL’s can now legally transfer C&R handguns and firearms to licensed C&R dealers. (03 FFL)

Online portal: Created online portal for face-to-face transfers, preserving private sales

Confiscation: We added language-providing protection of property for firearms owners. Now, if firearms are confiscated, the licensing authority is required, at that time, to inform the person in writing of their ability to transfer their firearms to an independent licensed individual

Lost & Stolen Firearms: GOAL added language so that a person who, in good faith, reports lost or stolen firearms will have protection, so that the licensing authority cannot consider them a prohibited person.

Military Personnel: We extended the time period an active duty military member has to become licensed, or renew their license from 90 to 180 days. We exempted active duty military members from having to take the mandatory gun safety training classes.


The down side – what we didn’t like.

MA Police Chiefs now have more power over license applicants via applying suitability to FID cards.

Increased penalties for violating storage laws.

Increased penalties for being in possession of a firearm on school grounds.

Here's the link to the story from GOAL..... http://goal.org/alert-defeat-chapter-180-part2.htmlutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed+GoalNews-GunOwnersActionLeague+GOAL+News+-+Gun+Owners+Action+League

Link is 404. The problem is getting little back in return for a vast increase in a governments ability to prevent its citizen from arming themselves.

One asshole should not be able to decide I cannot buy a firearm, only 12 assholes in a court of law can.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But the law makes it a discretionary decision of the CLEO whether someone can exercise a right or not. Don't you see a problem with that?

I do, in fact, see a problem with unchecked discretionary authority. I don't see a problem with judicious use of discretionary authority vested with the Chief of Police who has the burden of proof before a judge.

See, there's the problem.
The judge, if not limited by law to uphold denials only when the LEO proves it is illegal for someone so denied to own a gun, has arbitrary discretion as well -- "you're right, chief - while this guy is legally able to own a gun, I think its a bad idea and so uphold your denial."

 

[M14 Shooter]

Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick rocks!
Gov. Deval Patrick signs sweeping gun bill into law | MSNBC

I don't understand how conservatives could say that this is a bad thing.

Them don't read so good.

Thank you for adding absolutely nothing of value to the discussion, as per the norm.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Here are the major points from GOAL's summation of the new law. This is not necessarily totally inclusive, and reflects the OPINIONS of the Gun Owner's Action League. Please remember that as you read it.

Positive changes:

Juniors: this now allows trainers to provide firearms to junior shooters and hunters with parental consent. Juniors are now able to apply for their FID card a year early (age 14) and receive their card at 15.

Pepper Spray: Person over the age of 18 will no longer need an FID card to purchase pepper spray. 15-17 year olds can still possess – but must have an FID card

FID: Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card….. The language also includes defined time limits, if there is no decision rendered in the prescribed amount of time, the license will be issued.

LTC: The Class B License was eliminated; going forward there is only one License to Carry. (LTC). Chiefs now have to put denials in writing so that the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court. Also, for the first time gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court.

Both licenses: The term "prohibited person" is now being used for both licenses – instead of "unsuitable". This change in the language provides a much-needed change in framework around who is prohibited. Also the 90-day grace period - license renewal issue was fixed. Gun owners will now receive a receipt upon renewal, which makes the license valid until the new license is received.

Mental Health: Language was added protecting people who voluntary seek mental health help preventing them from being listed as a prohibited person. This also gives protection to people who voluntarily seek help for drug and alcohol abuse issues.

Olympic-style Handguns: There will be exemptions for the dealer transfer of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth. These were previously not legal to transfer by licensed dealers in the Commonwealth.

Curios and Relic Collectors: 01 FFL’s can now legally transfer C&R handguns and firearms to licensed C&R dealers. (03 FFL)

Online portal: Created online portal for face-to-face transfers, preserving private sales

Confiscation: We added language-providing protection of property for firearms owners. Now, if firearms are confiscated, the licensing authority is required, at that time, to inform the person in writing of their ability to transfer their firearms to an independent licensed individual

Lost & Stolen Firearms: GOAL added language so that a person who, in good faith, reports lost or stolen firearms will have protection, so that the licensing authority cannot consider them a prohibited person.

Military Personnel: We extended the time period an active duty military member has to become licensed, or renew their license from 90 to 180 days. We exempted active duty military members from having to take the mandatory gun safety training classes.


The down side – what we didn’t like.

MA Police Chiefs now have more power over license applicants via applying suitability to FID cards.

Increased penalties for violating storage laws.

Increased penalties for being in possession of a firearm on school grounds.

Here's the link to the story from GOAL..... http://goal.org/alert-defeat-chapter-180-part2.htmlutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed+GoalNews-GunOwnersActionLeague+GOAL+News+-+Gun+Owners+Action+League

Thanks for the pretty straight-forward summary. I hope this makes for better discussion. I'm just way over the "gun grabber" and "trigger happy" mindless bickering.

 

[The Rabbi]

Here are the major points from GOAL's summation of the new law. This is not necessarily totally inclusive, and reflects the OPINIONS of the Gun Owner's Action League. Please remember that as you read it.

Positive changes:

Juniors: this now allows trainers to provide firearms to junior shooters and hunters with parental consent. Juniors are now able to apply for their FID card a year early (age 14) and receive their card at 15.

Pepper Spray: Person over the age of 18 will no longer need an FID card to purchase pepper spray. 15-17 year olds can still possess – but must have an FID card

FID: Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card….. The language also includes defined time limits, if there is no decision rendered in the prescribed amount of time, the license will be issued.

LTC: The Class B License was eliminated; going forward there is only one License to Carry. (LTC). Chiefs now have to put denials in writing so that the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court. Also, for the first time gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court.

Both licenses: The term "prohibited person" is now being used for both licenses – instead of "unsuitable". This change in the language provides a much-needed change in framework around who is prohibited. Also the 90-day grace period - license renewal issue was fixed. Gun owners will now receive a receipt upon renewal, which makes the license valid until the new license is received.

Mental Health: Language was added protecting people who voluntary seek mental health help preventing them from being listed as a prohibited person. This also gives protection to people who voluntarily seek help for drug and alcohol abuse issues.

Olympic-style Handguns: There will be exemptions for the dealer transfer of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth. These were previously not legal to transfer by licensed dealers in the Commonwealth.

Curios and Relic Collectors: 01 FFL’s can now legally transfer C&R handguns and firearms to licensed C&R dealers. (03 FFL)

Online portal: Created online portal for face-to-face transfers, preserving private sales

Confiscation: We added language-providing protection of property for firearms owners. Now, if firearms are confiscated, the licensing authority is required, at that time, to inform the person in writing of their ability to transfer their firearms to an independent licensed individual

Lost & Stolen Firearms: GOAL added language so that a person who, in good faith, reports lost or stolen firearms will have protection, so that the licensing authority cannot consider them a prohibited person.

Military Personnel: We extended the time period an active duty military member has to become licensed, or renew their license from 90 to 180 days. We exempted active duty military members from having to take the mandatory gun safety training classes.


The down side – what we didn’t like.

MA Police Chiefs now have more power over license applicants via applying suitability to FID cards.

Increased penalties for violating storage laws.

Increased penalties for being in possession of a firearm on school grounds.

Here's the link to the story from GOAL..... http://goal.org/alert-defeat-chapter-180-part2.htmlutm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed+GoalNews-GunOwnersActionLeague+GOAL+News+-+Gun+Owners+Action+League

Those poor peasants, cowering and grateful for being allowed to maybe exercise their rights as long as they dont offend any police chiefs. I really pity them.
I see why they support it. In their shoes I might as well, figuring I'm getting more than I'm giving up. But in the big picture the whole scenario sucks.

And thank you, Anathema, for doing the hard work tracking the real story down.

 

[Anathema]

Those poor peasants, cowering and grateful for being allowed to maybe exercise their rights as long as they dont offend any police chiefs. I really pity them. I see why they support it. In their shoes I might as well, figuring I'm getting more than I'm giving up. But in the big picture the whole scenario sucks.

And thank you, Anathema, for doing the hard work tracking the real story down.

As a Massachusetts Resident, Gun Owner, and GOAL member, this is something I've been following for several months. No need to "track the real story down", I knew it from the beginning. I just wanted to find it in someone else's writing, so that it could be validated rather than becoming "He Said, She Said."

Today's Massachusetts isn't what it was in 1775. This is probably one of the "Bluest" states in the nation, largely because of the population centers and the EASTERN part of the state. Where I live, in the Central/Western part of the state you find a lot more at least pseudo-Conservatives.

There are few if any truly Consrevative legislators simply because they can't win elections with the population centers being so Liberal. The few that are there generally end up having to go along to get along.

Honestly, after the Chapter 180 issues from 1998 and the fight that we gun owners have been putting up for the last decade and a half, this is a MAJOR victory for gun owners in the Commonwealth. Especially if you saw the ORIGINAL legislation that was proposed.