Maryland Woman Fined $310 for Killing Police Officer

[Diuretic]

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Breaking the law doesn't automatically make it negligent. Especially if the law is such that they feel its unimportant enough that its not even a crime, and you only get cited for it.

Good luck with that. If there's an event and it's cause is human error (I'm not even going to intention) then it's evident that negligence is involved.

 

[Diuretic]

Within the context of intentionally violating the law -- meaning if Laura Bush ran the stop sign because she just didn't feel like slowing down, not in the least. I'd still go for a manslaughter charge.

If she ran the sign because she did not know of its existence and/or did not see it, THEN I could see her not being charged.

In the case of the woman in the original article, she was speeding. Intentionally violating the law. Her intentional violation of the law resulted in the death of another human being.

Unless I misunderstand definitions, she could actually be charged with second degree murder, correct? My going for manslaughter in this case IS actually taking into account that the death was not intentional and the officer partly to blame.

The fact is, the jury had a different opinion and she walked after paying her traffic fines. A crushing blow, but I'll live.

I don't see this woman as being guilty of manslaughter. Perhaps death by negligent driving (in my state) but even then there's the contributory negligence of the police officer himself. How much did his actions contribute to his own demise? That's always going to be an important question.

 

[Dogger]

Within the context of intentionally violating the law -- meaning if Laura Bush ran the stop sign because she just didn't feel like slowing down, not in the least. I'd still go for a manslaughter charge.

If she ran the sign because she did not know of its existence and/or did not see it, THEN I could see her not being charged.

In the case of the woman in the original article, she was speeding. Intentionally violating the law. Her intentional violation of the law resulted in the death of another human being.

Unless I misunderstand definitions, she could actually be charged with second degree murder, correct? My going for manslaughter in this case IS actually taking into account that the death was not intentional and the officer partly to blame.

The fact is, the jury had a different opinion and she walked after paying her traffic fines. A crushing blow, but I'll live.

It's interesting how your thinking became more nuanced when I presented you with a real case rather than a hypothetical.

The real issue here is proximate cause. Speeding is negligent per se, but that was not the proximate cause of the accident. The officer's decison to step in front of her caused it. In contrast, Ms. Bush's conduct was the proximate cause and the sole cause of her accident. Her intent is not relevant except to distinguish murder from manslaughter.

Speeding may be intentional or it may just result from going with the flow of traffic rather than watching the speedometer. It could easily be a matter of going with the flow when doing 71 in a 55 mph zone. In either event, unless her speeding (or drunkeness as in the hypothetical) was the direct cause, the accident is not a homicide on that basis.

I once handled an appeal where two women were killed when struck from behind by a speeder. They were doing the speed limit of 55 mph on a divided highway, 2 lanes in each direction, in their left lane. The victims shifted to the right lane as the defendant attempted to pass on the right and hit them. The defendant was sentenced to 30 years in prison for 2 counts of second degree murder. What would you decide if you were a judge in that case?

 

[Gunny]

Fair enough, speed could possibly be the reason for the other 22,000 but I think Larkinn is right in that there could be a whole host of other reasons, too.

However, you also have to take into account the percentages. Let's say 16,000 people were killed by drunk drivers and 22,000 people were killed by speeders. I'd say there are a shitload more speeders than drunk drivers. Say there were 1 million people caught drunk driving last year and 16,000 people were killed that involved somebody driving under the influence that's 1 person killed for every 62 drunks. I'd bet any thing you like that at least 20 times the number of people were caught speeding. So 20 million divisible by 22,000 is 909. So you are 15 times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver. I pulled those figures out my arse, but just going from experience, that's my opinion.

And when you have two cops and an ex cop telling you, from the coal face, that they do see a difference, maybe there is. As an aside, most drunk driving fatalities I came across, almost ALL involved speed....second common most cause with drunks was falling asleep at the wheel..

I have no problem with your opinion. I have a problem with the punishment not being the same for taking a life while intentionally violating the law. The drunk isn't "more" intentionally violating the law than a speeder. The end result is the same.

I'm not even saying the woman should be crucified. Her intentionally unlawful actions DID however cause a wrongful death.

As I said, the jury doesn't agree with my opinion. I'll get over it.

 

[Dogger]

I have no problem with your opinion. I have a problem with the punishment not being the same for taking a life while intentionally violating the law. The drunk isn't "more" intentionally violating the law than a speeder. The end result is the same.

I'm not even saying the woman should be crucified. Her intentionally unlawful actions DID however cause a wrongful death.

As I said, the jury doesn't agree with my opinion. I'll get over it.

As I said above, intent is not the issue. It's causation. Drunk driving usually causes the accident, whereas speeding usually does not, unless the speed is so excessive it constitutes reckless driving or reckless disregard for human life. In the murder appeal I discussed above, the defendant was traveling 130 mph, which was 75 mph over the speed limit.