Zone1 Mary

[Road Runner]

Nothing in the Bible shows that Mary ever sinned.

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son and who shall ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[theHawk]

The cross. If Mary was sinless then why didn't she just die on the cross instead of making her son do it? Why send Jesus into the world at all if she could just be our savior?

I never claimed she would be our savior. She was the literal ark for the Savior.

Jesus was the new Adam, the new Moses to give new law, and the new High Priest in the order of Melchizedek as the prophets said. There is no way Mary could be those things. Nor was she divine like Jesus, who existed before creation.

 

[Road Runner]

I never claimed she would be our savior. She was the literal ark for the Savior.

And she was not sinless because she isn't our savior. Jesus Christ is as shown by John 3:16.

 

[Road Runner]

In other words God finding favor with Mary isn't equaling to her as the Messiah.

 

[theHawk]

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son and who shall ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

What does that have to do with Mary?

 

[Road Runner]

What does that have to do with Mary?

Nothing that's my point. The only way that verse works is because Jesus Christ was the ONLY person who never sinned.

 

[theHawk]

In other words God finding favor with Mary isn't equaling to her as the Messiah.

Never claimed she was equal to the Messiah.


She is the highest of all saints, a perfect reflection of God as he intended humans to be when he created humans in His image.

 

[theHawk]

Nothing that's my point. The only way that verse works is because Jesus Christ was the ONLY person who never sinned.

Where does it say that? You are interjecting words that aren’t there.

 

[Road Runner]

Never claimed she was equal to the Messiah.

Then how could she possibly be sinless if you already know that she isn't the Messiah?

he is the highest of all saints, a perfect reflection of God as he intended humans to be when he created humans in His image.

I never said that she wasn't but she still sinned.

Where does it say that?

Umm throughout the whole entire Bible?

 

[theHawk]

Here comes the Catholic nonsense. The beginning of the great apostasy that lasted for almost 2 millennia. She was a sinner. Stupid Catholics.

What’s funny is Protestants think the whole Christian church was wrong for 1500 years, and that they had no authority to form councils to decide church doctrine. Yet it was councils and the church that furnished the Holy Bible in the first place. So the Protestants then held their own council, then threw books out they didn’t like, following the very heretical Jews that rejected Jesus in the first place.

They then declared Mary was nothing special.
That purgatory does not exist.
That the Eucharist isn’t the body of Christ.
Essentially ended the sacrament of reconciliation.

To Protestants the Bible is the end all of knowledge of God. For Catholics it is the beginning of knowledge about the Lord.

 

[Road Runner]

Can somebody please tell me if Mary was sinless then why did we even need Jesus?

 

[Road Runner]

Can somebody please tell me if Mary was sinless then why did we even need Jesus?

Still waiting.

 

[Cougarbear]

Wrong. All of the early church fathers assumed that Mary remained a virgin and sinless.

Nothing in the Bible shows that Mary ever sinned.

Oh good grief…that’s like trying to prove a negative. The dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. All people says the Bible fall short the glory of God. All have sinned. Even the righteous sin.

 

[Cougarbear]

What’s funny is Protestants think the whole Christian church was wrong for 1500 years, and that they had no authority to form councils to decide church doctrine. Yet it was councils and the church that furnished the Holy Bible in the first place. So the Protestants then held their own council, then threw books out they didn’t like, following the very heretical Jews that rejected Jesus in the first place.

They then declared Mary was nothing special.
That purgatory does not exist.
That the Eucharist isn’t the body of Christ.
Essentially ended the sacrament of reconciliation.

To Protestants the Bible is the end all of knowledge of God. For Catholics it is the beginning of knowledge about the Lord.

Stop making things up. The Catholic Church wasn’t established until the 6th century. The Council of Nicene decided which books and apostle letters didn’t contradict each other. The Catholic Church decided to add writing from other authors who were not prophets or apostles. Those are not inspired of God. Some are good things and good for history. But, not from apostles or prophets so that they can be considered revelation. This was just one indication of apostasy had begun.

Stop saying Protestants and others don’t look at Mary as someone special. Being a virgin and conceiving without human sexual intercourse is obviously special. Good grief.

 

[Road Runner]

Stop making things up. The Catholic Church wasn’t established until the 6th century. The Council of Nicene decided which books and apostle letters didn’t contradict each other. The Catholic Church decided to add writing from other authors who were not prophets or apostles. Those are not inspired of God. Some are good things and good for history. But, not from apostles or prophets so that they can be considered revelation. This was just one indication of apostasy had begun.

Stop saying Protestants and others don’t look at Mary as someone special. Being a virgin and conceiving without human sexual intercourse is obviously special. Good grief.

Exactly. I have great respect for Mary too as God found great favor with her, but that doesn't mean that she's the Messiah.

 

[Cougarbear]

Exactly. I have great respect for Mary too as God found great favor with her, but that doesn't mean that she's the Messiah.

That’s correct. She did not atone for the sins of the world. She did it establish the resurrection. She is not the mediator between God the Father and mankind. She was a righteous woman worthy of carrying the Christ child.

 

[theHawk]

Can somebody please tell me if Mary was sinless then why did we even need Jesus?

I already told you. See post #22.

Stop playing games.

 

[Road Runner]

I already told you. See post #22.

No you didn't.

 

[theHawk]

Stop making things up. The Catholic Church wasn’t established until the 6th century. The Council of Nicene decided which books and apostle letters didn’t contradict each other. The Catholic Church decided to add writing from other authors who were not prophets or apostles. Those are not inspired of God. Some are good things and good for history. But, not from apostles or prophets so that they can be considered revelation. This was just one indication of apostasy had begun.

Stop saying Protestants and others don’t look at Mary as someone special. Being a virgin and conceiving without human sexual intercourse is obviously special. Good grief.

Wrong. The books were included in the Greek Septuagint and accepted by Jews at the time of Christ.


The same Church that existed before the 6th century was the same that existed after the 6th century.


So you still can’t explain how the church believed in things like intercession, praying for dead souls in purgatory, for all those centuries, then the Protestants just proclaim it isn’t a thing.

How can the Protestant church be “the real church” if it was built on 15 centuries of “heresy”?


I’m a former Protestant so I have heard all these arguments.

 

[theHawk]

No you didn't.

I did. You just didn’t like the answer because it refutes your point.

Mary could not fill the role of the Messiah because she did not meet the criteria outlined throughout the Old Testament.


Psalm 110:4 “You are a priest forever in the manner of Melchizedek.”
Zechariah 6:11-13 Crown on the High Priest. The Priest will be at His right hand.
A woman cannot be a priest.

Isaiah 7:14. The Messiah will be a son, born of a virgin. Mary was not born from a virgin mother, nor is she a boy.


No one is claiming she could be the Messiah, just because she was without sin.

Infants that are killed through abortion don’t commit sin. They are not qualified to be the messiah.