Majority Believe Dems Abused Power

[NYcarbineer]

Explain to me how subsidizing college tuition pertains to healthcare?

You have to go to college to become a doctor.

So he's only subsidizing medical students?

I was humoring you because your question was so off-topic. Get with it.

Actually there are items in the bill to encourage an increase in general practitioners if I'm not mistaken, which are a real need. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[Truthmatters]

The Dems are hoping people forget.

But they aren't understanding human nature very well. Obama fooled people once - and now many of them (especially Independents and moderate GOP members) feel burned. I doubt they are wiling to be fooled again.

About what?

Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.

Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing the legislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon?????

Those lies are being found out as we speak

 

[The Rabbi]

The Dems are hoping people forget.

But they aren't understanding human nature very well. Obama fooled people once - and now many of them (especially Independents and moderate GOP members) feel burned. I doubt they are wiling to be fooled again.

About what?

Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.

Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing the legislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon?????

Those lies are being found out as we speak

Actually they are more and more being discovered as the truth.
Except in the echo chamber that left-wingers inhabit.

 

[goldcatt]

I think most people are repulsed by the tactics. But..... I suspect that repulsion is the same whether it is Democrat or Republican.

To me, the interesting point is not that the public disapprove of it now - but that they have always disapproved of it. We're just better at making it known now.

It's not about parties.... it's about politics.

There's a reason for that old saying about making laws and sausage. Both are ugly, always have been.

IMO, the problem is most people are just now waking up to some of what is going on, but have no real knowledge base beyond what the Olbermanns and Becks tell them to think. So there are a lot of skewed opinions out there and not enough in the way of context, history and facts. It's all suddenly new and evil and hasn't been going on since the dawn of civilization.

Not people's fault, hell I've been told it takes a few years even for Members to catch up with all the procedure and rules. I'm sure no expert, although I try to get the gist of it anyway. But you're right about things just being better known now - and yet, the perception that's created makes it less known than ever.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I need more coffee!

Yea, I can see your point (even caffine deficient, it makes more sense than the 'left'/'right' rants - ). I guess, if one becomes interested and starts watching someone like Olbermann or Beck, then one might have a somewhat skewed view of what is going on.

What I find really pathetic is that people do the:

1. The GOP did it too so therefore it is fine.

2. Obama is worse than anyone else on the planet.

Both grate on my intellect.

I - and I don't think I'm alone - am completely sick and tired of either side justifying abusing the process. I don't care about 'it's legal', it is not moral - morals matter as much as the law. Maybe we've never had ethics in politics but that doesn't mean that we should not expect ethical behavior.... on both sides. I don't give a rats ass who did what. We should draw a line and say 'this far and no further'.

There is not one individual in that den of thieves that would get my vote.

I think there's a difference between pointing out this kind of stuff has happened since the days of Rome and saying "Look Ma, they did it too!" to justify it. In fact, I don't justify a lot of it at all no matter who does it. But to say it's somehow new or Obama's fault or anything but human nature when left unchecked by the people who are "supposed" to be keeping an eye on them is ridiculous.

I was commenting specifically on the OP's poll though, which asked about the process used to pass the bill. My point is nothing unusual or against the rules was used, so in my interpretation there was no "abuse". I definitely understand (and agree with) your point about the rules themselves being ugly and even immoral. But the OP's spin that this is somehow a partisan tilt, especially if you look at the context of the rest of the data collected, is disingenuous at best. I agree, it's more a general disgust.

First, as you point out the rules are not partisan, they're just politics. Second, you see how the two of us look at it in completely different but both very rational ways - me by whether the existing rules were violated, you by whether the rules themselves are moral or ethical. I'm sure there was no definition of "abuse" offered up in a brief phone poll to have any real context on what those numbers mean. "Abuse" is a vague term, and when there is no understanding of definitions whatever follows is completely meaningless.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You have to go to college to become a doctor.

So he's only subsidizing medical students?

I was humoring you because your question was so off-topic. Get with it.

Actually there are items in the bill to encourage an increase in general practitioners if I'm not mistaken, which are a real need. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

In other words, you have nothing but speculation.

 

[Misty]

A couple other items from that Gallup poll:

"It should include a government-run insurance plan, also called a public option"

Yes 53% No 43%


"It does not go far enough in regulating the health care industry"

Agree 51% Disagree 41%

...so, when the Republicans do their fabulous repeal and replace bill, will they do it according to the polls? Now that polls are the be all end all of conservative thinking...

I suspect the ones that don't think the bill regulates enough and are in favor of a public option, are mad because they wanted FREE healthcare.

Free for them, higher taxes for me.

 

[Misty]

The Dems are hoping people forget.
But they aren't understanding human nature very well. Obama fooled people once - and now many of them (especially Independents and moderate GOP members) feel burned. I doubt they are wiling to be fooled again.

About what?
Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing thelegislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon????
Those lies are being found out as we speak

The democrats voted for the war too and Obama has just sent more troops so I just debunked that theory

and Obama has increased our debt and shows no signs of stopping.

 

[beowolfe]

Very interesting results in the new Gallup Poll. Gallup's sampling method generally overweights in favor of the Dems. Even with this bias, the recent poll shows that 53% view the Dems' tactics to pass ObamaCare as an Abuse of Power.

Blame Spread Around for Post-Healthcare Vandalism, Threats


The Dems have lost Independents. Despite how much Obama exhorts and scolds the nation to "move along" and give health care a chance, he's lost support. As Obama said, that's what elections are for. He'll see in November.

Like I said before, intellectually, America ain't what it used to be.

 

[Claudette]

The Dems are hoping people forget.
But they aren't understanding human nature very well. Obama fooled people once - and now many of them (especially Independents and moderate GOP members) feel burned. I doubt they are wiling to be fooled again.

About what?
Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing thelegislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon????
Those lies are being found out as we speak

The democrats voted for the war too and Obama has just sent more troops so I just debunked that theory

and Obama has increased our debt and shows no signs of stopping.

Don't bother Misty.

TM believes only Reps are evil. The Dems and Barry boy walk on water. They will save us all.

This new HC bill won't cost a dime. It certainly won't drive up the debt. We won't be paying higher premium costs. It will wonderful.

Just ask TM. She'll be more than happy to tell you how great it is.

As for the tactics Dems used. Well I daresay the Reps would have done the same. Doesn't make it palatable or right but it is what it is.

 

[beowolfe]

I think most people are repulsed by the tactics. But..... I suspect that repulsion is the same whether it is Democrat or Republican.

To me, the interesting point is not that the public disapprove of it now - but that they have always disapproved of it. We're just better at making it known now.

It's not about parties.... it's about politics.

There's a reason for that old saying about making laws and sausage. Both are ugly, always have been.

IMO, the problem is most people are just now waking up to some of what is going on, but have no real knowledge base beyond what the Olbermanns and Becks tell them to think. So there are a lot of skewed opinions out there and not enough in the way of context, history and facts. It's all suddenly new and evil and hasn't been going on since the dawn of civilization.

Not people's fault, hell I've been told it takes a few years even for Members to catch up with all the procedure and rules. I'm sure no expert, although I try to get the gist of it anyway. But you're right about things just being better known now - and yet, the perception that's created makes it less known than ever.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I need more coffee!

Yea, I can see your point (even caffine deficient, it makes more sense than the 'left'/'right' rants - ). I guess, if one becomes interested and starts watching someone like Olbermann or Beck, then one might have a somewhat skewed view of what is going on.

What I find really pathetic is that people do the:

1. The GOP did it too so therefore it is fine.

2. Obama is worse than anyone else on the planet.

Both grate on my intellect.

I - and I don't think I'm alone - am completely sick and tired of either side justifying abusing the process. I don't care about 'it's legal', it is not moral - morals matter as much as the law. Maybe we've never had ethics in politics but that doesn't mean that we should not expect ethical behavior.... on both sides. I don't give a rats ass who did what. We should draw a line and say 'this far and no further'.

There is not one individual in that den of thieves that would get my vote.

Now I understand why he irks you so. You don't have that much for him to grate on.

 

[NYcarbineer]

A couple other items from that Gallup poll:

"It should include a government-run insurance plan, also called a public option"

Yes 53% No 43%


"It does not go far enough in regulating the health care industry"

Agree 51% Disagree 41%

...so, when the Republicans do their fabulous repeal and replace bill, will they do it according to the polls? Now that polls are the be all end all of conservative thinking...

I suspect the ones that don't think the bill regulates enough and are in favor of a public option, are mad because they wanted FREE healthcare.

Free for them, higher taxes for me.

No actually, a public option would be non-profit company that you would BUY insurance from. Kind of like your credit union.

 

[The Rabbi]

A couple other items from that Gallup poll:

"It should include a government-run insurance plan, also called a public option"

Yes 53% No 43%


"It does not go far enough in regulating the health care industry"

Agree 51% Disagree 41%

...so, when the Republicans do their fabulous repeal and replace bill, will they do it according to the polls? Now that polls are the be all end all of conservative thinking...

I suspect the ones that don't think the bill regulates enough and are in favor of a public option, are mad because they wanted FREE healthcare.

Free for them, higher taxes for me.

No actually, a public option would be non-profit company that you would BUY insurance from. Kind of like your credit union.

Do you think about anything or is it all just knee jerk?
What happens when you can't pay the premium? Government will pay it for you. How is that not free for the consumer? How is that not the road to single payer?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Dems are hoping people forget.
But they aren't understanding human nature very well. Obama fooled people once - and now many of them (especially Independents and moderate GOP members) feel burned. I doubt they are wiling to be fooled again.

About what?
Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing thelegislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon????
Those lies are being found out as we speak

The democrats voted for the war too and Obama has just sent more troops so I just debunked that theory

and Obama has increased our debt and shows no signs of stopping.

No actually most Democrats voted against the war.

 

[boedicca]

Actually they are more and more being discovered as the truth.
Except in the echo chamber that left-wingers inhabit.

That is why Obama is attacking the Tea Party movement. They are the voice of the growing numbers of people who are disgusted with the Abuse of Power and growth of Big Government.

 

[The Rabbi]

About what?
Lets remember what the repubs do while in office ....they created wars for political and finacial gain and Crashed the world economy twice in one life time.Rs in office are already changing the "repeal" cries and talking about fixing thelegislation.

How about the R lies that it was the end of democracy and armegedon????
Those lies are being found out as we speak

The democrats voted for the war too and Obama has just sent more troops so I just debunked that theory

and Obama has increased our debt and shows no signs of stopping.

No actually most Democrats voted against the war.

More Democrats voted for the war than Republicans voted for the health care debacle.

 

[boedicca]

No actually, a public option would be non-profit company that you would BUY insurance from. Kind of like your credit union.

Along the lines of a GSE like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (except that it is non-profit)?

That would be good.

Yet another aggregation of taxpayer cash to be abused by those who cannot resist the Moral Hazard of other people's money.

 

[HUGGY]

Majority Believe Dems Abused Power
Elections have consequences. You lost. And your point is?????? Elections carry weight...polls carry meaningless conjecture. Why is it that some people forget that thier bullshit was legally and overwhelmingly voted out of office? Now you know where you can shove your pole.

 

[The Rabbi]

No actually, a public option would be non-profit company that you would BUY insurance from. Kind of like your credit union.

Along the lines of a GSE like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (except that it is non-profit)?

That would be good.

Yet another aggregation of taxpayer cash to be abused by those who cannot resist the Moral Hazard of other people's money.

And no one has asked the pertinent question: would that actually save money anywhere?
The answer appears to be no. With for profit insurers reaping a windfall 2-3% profit that is the only advantage a non-profit might have. And since non-profits have no incentive to be efficient the 2-3% profit quickly gets eaten up by inefficiency and waste.

 

[boedicca]

Well, there is an election in November this year.

That one will have consequences as well.

 

[Samson]

.....Obama has, if nothing else, shown a propensity for mobilizing large swaths of people to vote (be it positive or negative) quickly. I think polls around august - september will be more telling of the situation once the lack of propaganda from both sides die down.

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on where you stand) for the White House, the public regularly forgets legislation like this within months if they aren't reminded, so they have the option of downplaying it till election or really trying to ramp its merits up. Either way, I don't really like it, I think they should let the bill speak for itself after shoring up its unsound portions. As long as economic recovery continues and if they can begin to stem job losses, there won't be too much of a switch during the 2010 mid terms. It remains to be seen whether this is good or bad.

Another excellent post

Damnit Hyakku, I wish I could pronounce your username.

Boedicca is purposefully looking at the empty portion of the glass: Ignoring the 36% of Independents that belived Dem's exercised APPROPRIATE use of power, and then rather hopefully thinking this will harm Obama in 2010 (although the presidential election will not happen until 2012).