looks like I was right

scruffy

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The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:
Creationism is the ... belief that nature, and aspects such as the universe, Earth, life, and humans, originated with supernatural acts of divine creation.

The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course. To reconcile that with the evidence though, you have to change your understanding of concepts like "life".

Life is complexity. Information. Not a bag of water. The bag of water is the SUBSTRATE for life, but it's not life itself. Life is deeper, more subtle Life is everywhere, even in empty space. Amino acids are even in the interstellar dust.

Life is a basic physical property of the universe, just like gravity, and electricity. If you're interested in creation, look there. The idea that man was created as-is is a non starter.

If you're interested in creation, read Emmy Noether and try to understand why every symmetry has a conservation law attached to it. All of biochemistry is just favorable energy transfers, it's really pretty simple stuff. The mystery is in the symmetry. Why this symmetry and not that one? Carbon is easy, it's the only one that allows dynamic folding. So look beyond it. What symmetries does a photon have? What symmetries are involved in entanglement? That"s where creation lives, not in a bag of water.

If you want to study creation you better be a physicist. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke, and the best thing is to admit it's a matter of faith and leave it at that.

1725522282761.png



Conservation of energy is a time invariance symmetry..

Conservation of momentum is a translation invariance.

Emmy Noether didn't live long enough to get into stochastic invariance. That's why Wikipedia doesn't have an entry about it.

But you can study it, and learn it. Noether's theorem is algebraic, it uses group theory. So, begin with stochastic groups.


To address creation, you need to understand why things aren't "completely" random. This universe wouldn't exist at all if things were "completely" random. Instead, some symmetries exist and some don't. Why is that? What favors the ones that exist, and why are the others excluded?

This is the only way for creationists to get scientific credibility.

Badmouthing evolution isn't going to cut it. Abuse of probability isn't going to cut it. Words from a book aren't going to cut it.

This is the only way.
 
The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:


The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course. To reconcile that with the evidence though, you have to change your understanding of concepts like "life".

Life is complexity. Information. Not a bag of water. The bag of water is the SUBSTRATE for life, but it's not life itself. Life is deeper, more subtle Life is everywhere, even in empty space. Amino acids are even in the interstellar dust.

Life is a basic physical property of the universe, just like gravity, and electricity. If you're interested in creation, look there. The idea that man was created as-is is a non starter.

If you're interested in creation, read Emmy Noether and try to understand why every symmetry has a conservation law attached to it. All of biochemistry is just favorable energy transfers, it's really pretty simple stuff. The mystery is in the symmetry. Why this symmetry and not that one? Carbon is easy, it's the only one that allows dynamic folding. So look beyond it. What symmetries does a photon have? What symmetries are involved in entanglement? That"s where creation lives, not in a bag of water.

If you want to study creation you better be a physicist. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke, and the best thing is to admit it's a matter of faith and leave it at that.

View attachment 1006719


Conservation of energy is a time invariance symmetry..

Conservation of momentum is a translation invariance.

Emmy Noether didn't live long enough to get into stochastic invariance. That's why Wikipedia doesn't have an entry about it.

But you can study it, and learn it. Noether's theorem is algebraic, it uses group theory. So, begin with stochastic groups.


To address creation, you need to understand why things aren't "completely" random. This universe wouldn't exist at all if things were "completely" random. Instead, some symmetries exist and some don't. Why is that? What favors the ones that exist, and why are the others excluded?

This is the only way for creationists to get scientific credibility.

Badmouthing evolution isn't going to cut it. Abuse of probability isn't going to cut it. Words from a book aren't going to cut it.

This is the only way.
Interesting....I would like to be there on your Judgement Day when you are explaining this theory to your Creator.
 
I figure it's best to live your life on your own terms, not the terms others set for you.

Take and use the "tools" (ideas, notions, and such) of the folks that have gone on before you (if they suit you) and pretty much disregard the rest.

Now that might sound like the musings of a dullard, but it's held me in good stead.
 
The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:


The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course
Then it would not be called creation.

Seems like you're a closet creationist
:laughing0301:
 
The presence of the natural world cannot be explained naturally.

scruffy made an OP that uses hundreds of words to befuddle you and probably himself too. What he needs to do is how how the above statement could possibly be false. He must be able to show that the presence of the natural world can be explained naturally, but he never has.

Scientism is a danger, you've been warned.
 
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Then it would not be called creation.

I can think of at least a dozen ways it could.

The two concepts are not at odds.

For an example and an enjoyable read, check out the short science fiction book by Frank Herbert called "the Eyes of Heisenberg".

Seems like you're a closet creationist
:laughing0301:
Closet? No. Nothing about me is closet. :)

There is no mutual exclusion between these ideas, any that exists is artificial and man made and the product of erroneous logic.

We have to look forward, not back.
 
Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:

The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course.
I like how you end your straw man argument with an internal contradiction.
 
I can think of at least a dozen ways it could.

The two concepts are not at odds.

For an example and an enjoyable read, check out the short science fiction book by Frank Herbert called "the Eyes of Heisenberg".


Closet? No. Nothing about me is closet. :)

There is no mutual exclusion between these ideas, any that exists is artificial and man made and the product of erroneous logic.

We have to look forward, not back.
Fiction? Okay.

"artificial and man made and the product of erroneous logic?" sounds like you're describing a faith in a higher power that is a creationist.
 
Fiction? Okay.

"artificial and man made and the product of erroneous logic?" sounds like you're describing a faith in a higher power that is a creationist.
I'm describing a way to get a testable hypothesis.

Which is something no creationist has ever done.

Surely you're familiar with the rules of science. Repeatable and independently verifiable. Math qualifies. Faith doesn't.
 
The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:


The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course. To reconcile that with the evidence though, you have to change your understanding of concepts like "life".

Life is complexity. Information. Not a bag of water. The bag of water is the SUBSTRATE for life, but it's not life itself. Life is deeper, more subtle Life is everywhere, even in empty space. Amino acids are even in the interstellar dust.

Life is a basic physical property of the universe, just like gravity, and electricity. If you're interested in creation, look there. The idea that man was created as-is is a non starter.

If you're interested in creation, read Emmy Noether and try to understand why every symmetry has a conservation law attached to it. All of biochemistry is just favorable energy transfers, it's really pretty simple stuff. The mystery is in the symmetry. Why this symmetry and not that one? Carbon is easy, it's the only one that allows dynamic folding. So look beyond it. What symmetries does a photon have? What symmetries are involved in entanglement? That"s where creation lives, not in a bag of water.

If you want to study creation you better be a physicist. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke, and the best thing is to admit it's a matter of faith and leave it at that.

View attachment 1006719


Conservation of energy is a time invariance symmetry..

Conservation of momentum is a translation invariance.

Emmy Noether didn't live long enough to get into stochastic invariance. That's why Wikipedia doesn't have an entry about it.

But you can study it, and learn it. Noether's theorem is algebraic, it uses group theory. So, begin with stochastic groups.


To address creation, you need to understand why things aren't "completely" random. This universe wouldn't exist at all if things were "completely" random. Instead, some symmetries exist and some don't. Why is that? What favors the ones that exist, and why are the others excluded?

This is the only way for creationists to get scientific credibility.

Badmouthing evolution isn't going to cut it. Abuse of probability isn't going to cut it. Words from a book aren't going to cut it.

This is the only way.
Well obviously it looks to you that you were right about something, but I'm sorry that's TLDR, what was it that you were "right" about exactly?
 
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The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:


The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course. To reconcile that with the evidence though, you have to change your understanding of concepts like "life".

Life is complexity. Information. Not a bag of water. The bag of water is the SUBSTRATE for life, but it's not life itself. Life is deeper, more subtle Life is everywhere, even in empty space. Amino acids are even in the interstellar dust.

Life is a basic physical property of the universe, just like gravity, and electricity. If you're interested in creation, look there. The idea that man was created as-is is a non starter.

If you're interested in creation, read Emmy Noether and try to understand why every symmetry has a conservation law attached to it. All of biochemistry is just favorable energy transfers, it's really pretty simple stuff. The mystery is in the symmetry. Why this symmetry and not that one? Carbon is easy, it's the only one that allows dynamic folding. So look beyond it. What symmetries does a photon have? What symmetries are involved in entanglement? That"s where creation lives, not in a bag of water.

If you want to study creation you better be a physicist. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke, and the best thing is to admit it's a matter of faith and leave it at that.

View attachment 1006719


Conservation of energy is a time invariance symmetry..

Conservation of momentum is a translation invariance.

Emmy Noether didn't live long enough to get into stochastic invariance. That's why Wikipedia doesn't have an entry about it.

But you can study it, and learn it. Noether's theorem is algebraic, it uses group theory. So, begin with stochastic groups.


To address creation, you need to understand why things aren't "completely" random. This universe wouldn't exist at all if things were "completely" random. Instead, some symmetries exist and some don't. Why is that? What favors the ones that exist, and why are the others excluded?

This is the only way for creationists to get scientific credibility.

Badmouthing evolution isn't going to cut it. Abuse of probability isn't going to cut it. Words from a book aren't going to cut it.

This is the only way.
Was the big bang intentional or happenstance?
 
Emmy Noether was Einstein's tutor.


"The most important woman in the history of mathematics".

After working without pay for 7 years as a post-doc, she was invited to join the faculty at Gottingen by David Hilbert and Felix Klein.

In 1933 she was kicked out by the Nazis because she was Jewish, and came to America where she taught at Bryn Mawr and Princeton.

She died two years later at the age of 53.
 
Emmy Noether was Einstein's tutor.


"The most important woman in the history of mathematics".

After working without pay for 7 years as a post-doc, she was invited to join the faculty at Gottingen by David Hilbert and Felix Klein.

In 1933 she was kicked out by the Nazis because she was Jewish, and came to America where she taught at Bryn Mawr and Princeton.

She died two years later at the age of 53.
Was the big bang intentional or happenstance?
 
The creationists ran away.

I was right.

They weren't here to talk about science, they were here to badmouth it.

When we showed them it was impossible, they ran away.

Here's the fundamental flaw in creationism as it exists today. Read:


The bolded is the logical flaw.

There's no such thing as "super" natural.

If you're looking at it, it's natural. By definition.

Creationists are better served with better logic.

We need to look for NATURAL means of creation. "Super" natural is hocus pocus. Mumbo jumbo. If creation happened, it happened naturally.

Could creation have happened naturally? Why yes, of course. To reconcile that with the evidence though, you have to change your understanding of concepts like "life".

Life is complexity. Information. Not a bag of water. The bag of water is the SUBSTRATE for life, but it's not life itself. Life is deeper, more subtle Life is everywhere, even in empty space. Amino acids are even in the interstellar dust.

Life is a basic physical property of the universe, just like gravity, and electricity. If you're interested in creation, look there. The idea that man was created as-is is a non starter.

If you're interested in creation, read Emmy Noether and try to understand why every symmetry has a conservation law attached to it. All of biochemistry is just favorable energy transfers, it's really pretty simple stuff. The mystery is in the symmetry. Why this symmetry and not that one? Carbon is easy, it's the only one that allows dynamic folding. So look beyond it. What symmetries does a photon have? What symmetries are involved in entanglement? That"s where creation lives, not in a bag of water.

If you want to study creation you better be a physicist. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke, and the best thing is to admit it's a matter of faith and leave it at that.

View attachment 1006719


Conservation of energy is a time invariance symmetry..

Conservation of momentum is a translation invariance.

Emmy Noether didn't live long enough to get into stochastic invariance. That's why Wikipedia doesn't have an entry about it.

But you can study it, and learn it. Noether's theorem is algebraic, it uses group theory. So, begin with stochastic groups.


To address creation, you need to understand why things aren't "completely" random. This universe wouldn't exist at all if things were "completely" random. Instead, some symmetries exist and some don't. Why is that? What favors the ones that exist, and why are the others excluded?

This is the only way for creationists to get scientific credibility.

Badmouthing evolution isn't going to cut it. Abuse of probability isn't going to cut it. Words from a book aren't going to cut it.

This is the only way.
It is natural (a law of nature) that nothing which exists can come into existence without being created.

But we have an enormous volume of space. We live in time. We have lots of matter. And there is an incredible amount of energy in the universe. So: where did it all come from?

Any explanation (or hypothesis) requires a denial of that first premise. The explanation is therefore (by definition) “super natural” since it’s above and beyond and outside of the law of nature.

If you say “God,” you are saying “supernatural.”

Also, though, if you refer to a Big Bang you are saying “super natural.”
 

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