Looks like Baghdad imploding

[whutTHEYsay]

Barry was citing Yemen

Why are you running from your ignorance based commentary on Iraq that I challenged. Do you agree with me now that pulling US troops out if Iraq when Bush agreed they could be pulled out had nothing to do with the rise of ISIS in Syria and then following that, seizing territory in Iraq.

The spark that lit the Daesh fire was the 2003 US invasion of Iraq. You cannot erase history to suit your need to blame everything on Obama.

 

[ChrisL]

ChrL 11033743

Yup, you did. You said that you didn't believe it. OCS syndrome.

If you think I did - post it - or if you can't - well then, keeping running as you just did again right there in post# 11033743.

There is no post #11033743. How many posts do you think are ON this thread?

Also, stop editing people's replies for god's sake! Don't you know how to post YET? Just use the "post reply" option, you tard.

 

[Unkotare]

Barry was citing Yemen

Why are you running from your ignorance based commentary on Iraq that I challenged. Do you agree with me now that pulling US troops out if Iraq when Bush agreed they could be pulled out had nothing to do with the rise of ISIS in Syria and then following that, seizing territory in Iraq.

The spark that lit the Daesh fire was the 2003 US invasion of Iraq. You cannot erase history to suit your need to blame everything on Obama.

obama's arrogant incompetence has directly led to the inferno that the region has become. A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement instead of eagerly and irresponsibly pulling out as fast as possible so he could have a fucking 5-minute media moment without giving a thought (as if he had one to give) about the consequences. Consequences that President Bush very specifically warned against. Exactly what he cautioned against has happened, and our hapless, careless, clueless 'President' has no idea what to do other than deny reality and responsibility.

obama flicked his cigarette butt aside so he could grin into a camera and it sparked a wildfire that could well engulf much more than just the Middle East. People need to keep such things in mind when they vote. It's not just a game.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Unko 11066745

A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement

Obama listened to every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General that told him not to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008. The Iraqis refused to budge on the immunity issue. That is a natter of historical record that you are ignoring or deny that it exists. Why do you base your opinion on denial of a major crucial fact. The Iraqis would not sign or pass a SOFA in 2011 that contained legal immunity for US troops. That is the reality you miss.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

ChrL 11066501

There is no post #11033743.

Your post just now was Post# 11,066,501. The post you said was no post was Post# 11,033,743. That was about 33,000 posts by all posters between your two.

When dealing with so many false facts and unfounded opinion by right-wingers it is easier for me to find them on the MB's overall numbering system. No big deal except to those of you needing to divert attention away from all your losing arguments no natter on which thread they keep repeating them or sometime changing them to suit the mist recent argument they are trying to make.

 

[ChrisL]

ChrL 11066501

There is no post #11033743.

Your post just now was Post# 11,066,501. The post you said was no post was Post# 11,033,743. That was about 33,000 posts by all posters between your two.

When dealing with so many false facts and unfounded opinion by right-wingers it is easier for me to find them on the MB's overall numbering system. No big deal except to those of you needing to divert attention away from all your losing arguments no natter on which thread you keep repeating them or sometime changing them to suit the mist recent argument they are trying to make.

I'm not going to respond to your posts until you start quoting the right way and stop cutting quotes short. Use the "post reply" option and quote the ENTIRE post.

 

[Unkotare]

Unko 11066745

A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement

Obama listened to every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General that told him not to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008. The Iraqis refused to budge on the immunity issue. That is a natter of historical record that you are ignoring or deny that it exists. Why do you base your opinion on denial of a major crucial fact. The Iraqis would not sign or pass a SOFA in 2011 that contained legal immunity for US troops. That is the reality you miss.

News discussions - Boston.com

Key general Iraq pullout plan a disaster - Washington Times


George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post


Leon Panetta criticizes Obama for Iraq withdrawal - CBS News


President Bush Warned Obama Not to Pull Out of Iraq Lubbock Online Lubbock Avalanche-Journal


Be warned America s withdrawal from Iraq heralds a world of instability John Bolton World news The Guardian

 

[Oldstyle]

Unko 11066745

A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement

Obama listened to every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General that told him not to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008. The Iraqis refused to budge on the immunity issue. That is a natter of historical record that you are ignoring or deny that it exists. Why do you base your opinion on denial of a major crucial fact. The Iraqis would not sign or pass a SOFA in 2011 that contained legal immunity for US troops. That is the reality you miss.

Obama IGNORED every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General who warned him that a premature withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq could destabilize the area.

Obama never made an effort to negotiate a new Status of Forces Agreement as the Bush SOFA expired because Obama never intended to keep American combat troops in Iraq.

THAT is the reality that you ignore...

 

[whutTHEYsay]

ChrL 11067078

I'm not going to respond to your posts until you start quoting the right way and stop cutting quotes short. Use the "post reply" option and quote the ENTIRE post.

I am using the quote or reply function the full quote is a mouse click away if you think you thought was not fuller represented by selective quote - and poster,are allowed to select specific statements that one wishes to focus on - while cutting out the useless stuff such as references to having oral,sex with the president.


Since you said you would find posts by me filled with hate; Since you can't find a poll that shows Americans opposing negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran are the majority; you are not going to respond to my posts. Goodbye again.


And I just used the search function to find all posts by me that were in response to you ChrL. It worked great. I can see all the posts you are running from such as this one:

NF 11024759.

Is there a General there being directly quoted advising Obama to keep one single soldier in Iraq after January 1 2012.without having the protection of legal immunity?

An I can show when you said there was no post number 11033743 and a taught you the fact that there is:,

There is no post #11033743. How many posts do you think are ON this thread?

You just can't admit when you are wrong can you?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Unko 11066745

A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement

NF 11066907

Obama listened to every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General that told him not to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008.

Unko 11067175

News discussions - Boston.com

Key general Iraq pullout plan a disaster - Washington Times

George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post

Leon Panetta criticizes Obama for Iraq withdrawal - CBS News

President Bush Warned Obama Not to Pull Out of Iraq Lubbock Online Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Be warned America s withdrawal from Iraq heralds a world of instability John Bolton World news The Guardian

Which one of those links contains anyone in 2011 that had advised Obama to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008?

You cited my post but you did not respond to the point that I made about the necessity for immunity for any remaining troops after 2011. You provide links to wall after wall of text that do not address the critical point. I-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y


So where is the quote I am seeking?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

OS 11067735

Obama IGNORED every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General who warned him that a premature withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq could destabilize the area.

No he did not ignore them. Those civilian advisers and active duty military advisers had no way to persuade the Iraqis to grant immunity to our troops after the Bush/Maliki 2008 SOFA expired at the end of 2011. You are confused. It was the Iraqis that ignored that advice mainly because Bush was pushed into a very short term deal in 2008. The Iraqis had final say. After right winger generally claim that 4484 US troops needed to die in order to give the Iraqis a sovereign democratic state ruled by majority Shiite rule that is quite friendly with the theocratic state in neighboring Iran.

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11067735

Obama IGNORED every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General who warned him that a premature withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq could destabilize the area.

No he did not ignore them. Those civilian advisers and active duty military advisers had no way to persuade the Iraqis to grant immunity to our troops after the Bush/Maliki 2008 SOFA expired at the end of 2011. You are confused. It was the Iraqis that ignored that advice mainly because Bush was pushed into a very short term deal in 2008. The Iraqis had final say. After right winger generally claim that 4484 US troops needed to die in order to give the Iraqis a sovereign democratic state ruled by majority Shiite rule that is quite friendly with the theocratic state in neighboring Iran.

Of course he ignored them! He made a political decision that pulling the troops out would get him reelected. The results of that decision he now owns. He was told by his military advisers that a rushed withdrawal could endanger stability in Iraq but he chose to ignore their advice and do it anyways. The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq. That's on nobody but Barry!

 

[whutTHEYsay]

OS 11072849

Of course he ignored them! He made a political decision that pulling the troops out would get him reelected.

Should Obama have ignored the more important advice from those same advisers who said no troops should stay if Iraq does not extend the immunity that was given with the previous SOFA?

Tell me you think Obama should have ignored the personal safety of the troops under his command

 

[Camp]

OS 11067735

Obama IGNORED every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General who warned him that a premature withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq could destabilize the area.

No he did not ignore them. Those civilian advisers and active duty military advisers had no way to persuade the Iraqis to grant immunity to our troops after the Bush/Maliki 2008 SOFA expired at the end of 2011. You are confused. It was the Iraqis that ignored that advice mainly because Bush was pushed into a very short term deal in 2008. The Iraqis had final say. After right winger generally claim that 4484 US troops needed to die in order to give the Iraqis a sovereign democratic state ruled by majority Shiite rule that is quite friendly with the theocratic state in neighboring Iran.

Of course he ignored them! He made a political decision that pulling the troops out would get him reelected. The results of that decision he now owns. He was told by his military advisers that a rushed withdrawal could endanger stability in Iraq but he chose to ignore their advice and do it anyways. The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq. That's on nobody but Barry!

Which military advisors, former officers, etc. advised that troops be left in Iraq without a renewed SOFA? Of course you can name the ones who gave the simple opinion and advice to leave troops, but that is easy for a person not in control and responsible for the decision and when the little caveat about the SOFA is ignored. So, give us the name or names of the military advisers that told him to leave troops in Iraq despite the Iraqi governments refusal to grant a new SOFA.

 

[Unkotare]

Unko 11066745

A LEADER would have listened to his generals and renegotiated a SOF agreement

Obama listened to every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General that told him not to negotiate a SOFA that did not have the same legal immunity as the Bush/Maliki SOFA of 2008. The Iraqis refused to budge on the immunity issue. That is a natter of historical record that you are ignoring or deny that it exists. Why do you base your opinion on denial of a major crucial fact. The Iraqis would not sign or pass a SOFA in 2011 that contained legal immunity for US troops. That is the reality you miss.

News discussions - Boston.com

Key general Iraq pullout plan a disaster - Washington Times


George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post


Leon Panetta criticizes Obama for Iraq withdrawal - CBS News


President Bush Warned Obama Not to Pull Out of Iraq Lubbock Online Lubbock Avalanche-Journal


Be warned America s withdrawal from Iraq heralds a world of instability John Bolton World news The Guardian

.

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11072849

Of course he ignored them! He made a political decision that pulling the troops out would get him reelected.

Should Obama have ignored the more important advice from those same advisers who said no troops should stay if Iraq does not extend the immunity that was given with the previous SOFA?

Tell me you think Obama should have ignored the personal safety of the troops under his command

You're conflating two issues and trying to make them one. Obama couldn't have cared less about the personal safety of the troops because he never intended to have them THERE! He made a political decision to remove combat troops from Iraq and used the expiring SOFA as an excuse once it became obvious that it wasn't a good policy choice because it left Iraq vulnerable to attack from ISIS.

The bottom line has always been that Barack Obama didn't push for a new SOFA because Barack Obama didn't want US troops in Iraq. He ignored the military advice he got because he wanted his political legacy to be that of the President who "stopped wars"!

He now faces the exact same situation in Afghanistan and although he'd LOVE to pull troops out of there as well and declare that he "stopped" another war...it's finally dawned on him that leaving a power vacuum can lead to "JV teams" taking over countries! Only took him six plus years to get a semblance of a clue!

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11067735

Obama IGNORED every military adviser and every active and inactive duty General who warned him that a premature withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq could destabilize the area.

No he did not ignore them. Those civilian advisers and active duty military advisers had no way to persuade the Iraqis to grant immunity to our troops after the Bush/Maliki 2008 SOFA expired at the end of 2011. You are confused. It was the Iraqis that ignored that advice mainly because Bush was pushed into a very short term deal in 2008. The Iraqis had final say. After right winger generally claim that 4484 US troops needed to die in order to give the Iraqis a sovereign democratic state ruled by majority Shiite rule that is quite friendly with the theocratic state in neighboring Iran.

Of course he ignored them! He made a political decision that pulling the troops out would get him reelected. The results of that decision he now owns. He was told by his military advisers that a rushed withdrawal could endanger stability in Iraq but he chose to ignore their advice and do it anyways. The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq. That's on nobody but Barry!

Which military advisors, former officers, etc. advised that troops be left in Iraq without a renewed SOFA? Of course you can name the ones who gave the simple opinion and advice to leave troops, but that is easy for a person not in control and responsible for the decision and when the little caveat about the SOFA is ignored. So, give us the name or names of the military advisers that told him to leave troops in Iraq despite the Iraqi governments refusal to grant a new SOFA.

Nobody advised that. His generals told him that withdrawing troops was dangerous because it would lead to instability. The need for a new SOFA would only exist if you intended to leave troops in Iraq and Barry never had that intention no matter what his military advisers told him. Iraqi politicians had no stomach for backing a new SOFA because they quite correctly realized that Obama didn't want troops in Iraq and at best was going to leave a token force behind.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq.

ISIS was formerly AQI which formed in Iraq about four years before Senator Obama ran for president. Then they were not destroyed by the Bush Administration. They simply moved into Syria and watched Bush get suckered into first the 2007 trap by Maliki when he sent a letter to the UN demanding that the US authority to operate combat operations in Iraq come to an end by December 2008.

The second trap was the 2008 trap that was set up by the first trap. Bush was forced to negotiate in one year a SOFA or else all troops had to leave by January 1, 2009. That was full advantage for Iraqis. They had Bush under their thumb and pressed hard to get all troops out US cities by June 2009 and all combat operations by US forces had to be approved in advance by Maliki.

The transformation from AQI to ISIS happened in Syria not Iraq anyway. There was no advice by generals to keep 24.000 troops in Syria in 2011 or thereafter.

Your storyline is quite,flawed Oldstyle - it really is.,

Have you ever mentioned immunity in one of your posts? Will you ever use that term in your lifetime?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

OS 11073103

You're conflating two issues and trying to make them one.

First of all Camp is exactly correct here: 11072964

Which military advisors, former officers, etc. advised that troops be left in Iraq without a renewed SOFA? Of course you can name the ones who gave the simple opinion and advice to leave troops, but that is easy for a person not in control and responsible for the decision and when the little caveat about the SOFA is ignored. So, give us the name or names of the military advisers that told him to leave troops in Iraq despite the Iraqi governments refusal to grant a new SOFA.

But your point Oldstyle is invalid. There is no separation of continuing a troop presence and having a legal agreement with the host country's granting immunity for those troops.

Iraq was not going to grant immunity and the US was not going to keep one single troop there without it. It's called an impasse. One impasse that could never have been overcome.,

Just so your are aware, Obama authorized the tripling of US troops in Afghanistan within his first year, which alienated the anti-war wing of the Democratic Party including many members of the Congressional black caucus. Early Spring 2009 Obama authorized the largest US Marine air to ground assault into Helmand and Kandahar Province since the Vietnam war. Obama has never catered to or tried to please the anti war wing of his party.

 

[Oldstyle]

The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq.

ISIS was formerly AQI which formed in Iraq about four years before Senator Obama ran for president. Then they were not destroyed by the Bush Administration. They simply moved into Syria and watched Bush get suckered into first the 2007 trap by Maliki when he sent a letter to the UN demanding that the US authority to operate combat operations in Iraq come to an end by December 2008.

The second trap was the 2008 trap that was set up by the first trap. Bush was forced to negotiate in one year a SOFA or else all troops had to leave by January 1, 2009. That was full advantage for Iraqis. They had Bush under their thumb and pressed hard to get all troops out US cities by June 2009 and all combat operations by US forces had to be approved in advance by Maliki.

The transformation from AQI to ISIS happened in Syria not Iraq anyway. There was no advice by generals to keep 24.000 troops in Syria in 2011 or thereafter.

Your storyline is quite,flawed Oldstyle - it really is.,

Have you ever mentioned immunity in one of your posts? Will you ever use that term in your lifetime?

What's "flawed" is your rather pathetic attempts to make Barack Obama's Middle East policy failures something that George Bush is at fault for! When Bush left office, Obama inherited a stable Iraq. Since that time Obama has managed to totally FUBAR not only Iraq but the entire Middle East. What he was lauding as a success just last year...Yemen...is now imploding. Syria is a disaster. Libya is a disaster. Iran is busily finishing off a nuke. He even tried to influence an Israeli election only to see that turn into another disaster.

Barack Obama is AWFUL when it comes to foreign policy. The longer he stays in office the worse things become. I dare you to find a single foreign policy of Barry's that's been successful. He's THAT BAD!