London on Lockdown

[California Girl]

I'm not, nor do I dismiss logical ideas from people I disagree with. Tank is rather outspoken when it comes to race relations. In many cases, I agree with him despite his poor choice of words.
Very rarely is Tank flat out wrong. Is he a racist or a pragmatist? Hard for me to judge.
You obviously do see him as racist and automatically reject anything he says based on that assessment.

Yes I do, when he puts this situation down to blacks. A quick review of the available photography shows the rioters are both black and white, but it suits his particular agenda to ignore that fact.

Oh come off it, Colin. Let's be honest with ourselves, eh? I'll grant you that the more this spreads to areas that are less predominantly black, the baton will be picked-up by thugs of whatever creed. But at the moment, however hard it is for you to swallow, the looters causing all the destruction across London are mainly black. I'm here, and I'm seeing it with my own eyes. They're mostly black, get over it.

While that is true, they are not rioting because they are black. They are rioting because they are thugs. It's not about race, other than inner city areas where the riots are braking out are predominantly black. Happenstance, not race.

 

[Swagger]

That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities. Modern societies do not provide that.

You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.

As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?

I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.

These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy. What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.

 

[syrenn]

Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two. Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.

Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals.


I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.

Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.

Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.

I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.

 

[Ravi]

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.

 

[California Girl]

Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals.


I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.

Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.

Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.

I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.

This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.

 

[Ernie S.]

That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities. Modern societies do not provide that.

You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.

As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

Are there not buses and trains in GB? Cannot a kid born in the estates go to Edinburgh and find work? Can he not develop a skill that he can exploit in order to better himself? Or is it just easier for him to remain on the dole and blame his condition on government?

 

[Colin]

Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two. Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.

That's one of the main problems with discipline in Britain. Too many ******* bleeding hearts in the judiciary. Punishment NEVER fits the crime these days! And thanks to the EU and Tony Blair's administration, human rights law favours the criminal and not the victim!
I'm not at all confident these scumbags will get the sentence they deserve.

But that kid who pissed on the cenotaph got 16 months in prison. That seemed reasonable to me. He's still in prison, I think. They do need to toughen up on sentencing, I agree.... but I think the Conservatives are doing that. Or they say they are. LOL.

I totally agree about the EU/Blair comment. That's kind of what I meant with my comment about this being the result of liberal policies... but I think it pre-dates Blair. Y'all got soft on crime long ago.... and pandering to the hordes of welfare babies does not help.

Yes, 16 months but due to our system, with good behaviour...out in eight. I don't think that is enough.

Blair brought the European human rights law into British law. There was no reason to do this and that's when our real problems re sentencing started. Who benefits most as a result? Certainly not the public. No. The ******* fat cat cat legal profession who make millions out of applying human rights to the cases of all sorts of criminal scumbags and the criminals themselves!

 

[syrenn]

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.

So its the have nots doing the whole, if i cant have it you cant either thing? Nice cause for a riot.

 

[syrenn]

Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.

Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.

I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.

This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.

its always the normal hard working people who end up cleanup the mess of the ass holes.


And i do hope you are staying home today CG.

 

[California Girl]

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.

The police are targeting poor people? Really?

 

[California Girl]

I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.

This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.

its always the normal hard working people who end up cleanup the mess of the ass holes.


And i do hope you are staying home today CG.

Nope. Thugs ain't gonna stop me going about my business. I was out first thing this morning, and I'm probably gonna be going into Bristol tonight for dinner - they had riots there last night.

But.... I'm an American... they mess with me, I mess with them.

 

[Intense]

That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities. Modern societies do not provide that.

You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.

As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.

 

[California Girl]

As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.

This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.

 

[St.Blues]

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.

In theaters and coming to a neighborhood near you soon!

Blues

PS: You owe me some and I want it!

 

[Intense]

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.

This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.

They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.

All this time I thought England was the 51st State!

 

[California Girl]

You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.

This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.

They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.

All this time I thought England was the 51st State!

Britain doesn't 'advocate' Christianity. In fact, it treats Christians quite badly... they pander to Muslims though.

 

[St.Blues]

You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.

This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.

They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.

All this time I thought England was the 51st State!

A State, The USA's partner in crime is more like.. what do ya say?

Blues

 

[alexa]

As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?

My 'bleeding heart' is my education. I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience. What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?

I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.

I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice. That simply isn't true.

However, £65 dole per week buys sfa in this country. Have you never heard of relative poverty. While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.

Absolute poverty means not enough to eat

relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.

Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers. They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.

You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.

These areas need input. Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.

They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime. They need opportunities and support to move on.

These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy. What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.

These are children. I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.

Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man. Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want. The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.

Now my lawn needs cut.

 

[English Dave]

I watched our glorious leader, newly returned from his holiday villa this morning on TV.
Tonight will decide who is in charge of this country, the thugs or the law. I watched with
amazement on TV last night, these thieves and rioters running amoke in London and a few
other cities. The police just seemed to be standing there, and doing nothing. Hopefully
tonight the kid gloves will be taken off, I shall wait and see.......

 

[California Girl]

I wasn't opposing it to anything. You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs. You can't. Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime. Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more

Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?

My 'bleeding heart' is my education. I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience. What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?

I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.

I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice. That simply isn't true.

However, £65 dole per week buys sfa in this country. Have you never heard of relative poverty. While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.

Absolute poverty means not enough to eat

relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.

Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers. They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.

You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.

These areas need input. Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.

They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime. They need opportunities and support to move on.

These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy. What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.

These are children. I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.

Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man. Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want. The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.

Now my lawn needs cut.

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.