Lol, 23% of Conservatives Are Not Supporting Trump? Really?

[thanatos144]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

The economy has been on life support for a long time. What's your solution?

The conservative one. Lower taxes and regulations .... You know the PROVEN shit.

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

Dude Tariffs are the exact opposite of that and he has Not said he will lower taxes... Actually he has said he will raise them several times but in his defense he talks out of all five of his faces so we really don't know what the **** he will do other then insult cripples and peoples families like a asshole.

 

[Iceweasel]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

The economy has been on life support for a long time. What's your solution?

The conservative one. Lower taxes and regulations .... You know the PROVEN shit.

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

Dude Tariffs are the exact opposite of that and he has Not said he will lower taxes... Actually he has said he will raise them several times but in his defense he talks out of all five of his faces so we really don't know what the **** he will do other then insult cripples and peoples families like a asshole.

Yes, he has said he wants to lower taxes, said it all along. Corporate down to 15%, where were you? And my point was a tariff might make them rethink theirs. If they drop theirs we can drop ours.

I don't really care if he insults a few assholes, they sling mud and expect to be squeaky clean?

 

[Toro]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

The economy has been on life support for a long time. What's your solution?

The conservative one. Lower taxes and regulations .... You know the PROVEN shit.

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

Dude Tariffs are the exact opposite of that and he has Not said he will lower taxes... Actually he has said he will raise them several times but in his defense he talks out of all five of his faces so we really don't know what the **** he will do other then insult cripples and peoples families like a asshole.

Yes, he has said he wants to lower taxes, said it all along. Corporate down to 15%, where were you? And my point was a tariff might make them rethink theirs. If they drop theirs we can drop ours.

I don't really care if he insults a few assholes, they sling mud and expect to be squeaky clean?

Global tariffs are about 2.5%. They were 40% in 1945. They can't go much lower.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

Our country already has tariffs, and always has had tariffs. Our economy grew fastest when we had strong tariffs from 1870 to 1910.

Well, that really wasn't our fastest growth. In fact, that time period was a period of high economic volatility, with some of our worst depressions in history. In fact, about half the time, the economy was in recession or depression. We had our worst depression as a nation until 1929 from 1873 to 1879.

The Development of the Industrial United States (1870-1900)

1870-1900
From the era of Reconstruction to the end of the 19th century, the United States underwent an economic transformation marked by the maturing of the industrial economy, the rapid expansion of big business, the development of large-scale agriculture, and the rise of national labor unions and industrial conflict.

An outburst of technological innovation in the late 19th century fueled this headlong economic growth. However, the accompanying rise of the American corporation and the advent of big business resulted in a concentration of the nation's productive capacities in fewer and fewer hands. Mechanization brought farming into the realm of big business as well, making the United States the world's premier food producer--a position it has never surrendered.

Avoiding the use of inflation altered stats, a comparison of the growth in manufacturing jobs from about 1 million in 1850 to over 5 million in 1900 shows a 400% increase in manufacturing. For that to be the same rate of growth as then, we would have to have created over 25 million manufacturing jobs by 1940 and 100 million by 1980, which obviously did not happen.

Our fastest growth in real terms like number of people hired, iron produced, etc, was from 1850 to 1910, and the fastest period of that was 1870 to 1900.

Yes, the financial industry suffered during that time because people were investing in actual businesses and not playing the Wall Street casino.

Too ******* bad; it was great for the rest of the country.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

We have punitive tariffs in these trade treaties for a reason; to make the participants play fair with the other signees. Mexico and China have been manipulating their currency and dumping shit in our markets for decades now.

It is time to use the punitive provisions of these treaties and get these ***** to play by the rules they agreed to.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The economy has been on life support for a long time. What's your solution?

The conservative one. Lower taxes and regulations .... You know the PROVEN shit.

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

Dude Tariffs are the exact opposite of that and he has Not said he will lower taxes... Actually he has said he will raise them several times but in his defense he talks out of all five of his faces so we really don't know what the **** he will do other then insult cripples and peoples families like a asshole.

Yes, he has said he wants to lower taxes, said it all along. Corporate down to 15%, where were you? And my point was a tariff might make them rethink theirs. If they drop theirs we can drop ours.

I don't really care if he insults a few assholes, they sling mud and expect to be squeaky clean?

Global tariffs are about 2.5%. They were 40% in 1945. They can't go much lower.

But they can still go lower, so what is your point, Einstein?

 

[Toro]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

Our country already has tariffs, and always has had tariffs. Our economy grew fastest when we had strong tariffs from 1870 to 1910.

Well, that really wasn't our fastest growth. In fact, that time period was a period of high economic volatility, with some of our worst depressions in history. In fact, about half the time, the economy was in recession or depression. We had our worst depression as a nation until 1929 from 1873 to 1879.

The Development of the Industrial United States (1870-1900)

1870-1900
From the era of Reconstruction to the end of the 19th century, the United States underwent an economic transformation marked by the maturing of the industrial economy, the rapid expansion of big business, the development of large-scale agriculture, and the rise of national labor unions and industrial conflict.

An outburst of technological innovation in the late 19th century fueled this headlong economic growth. However, the accompanying rise of the American corporation and the advent of big business resulted in a concentration of the nation's productive capacities in fewer and fewer hands. Mechanization brought farming into the realm of big business as well, making the United States the world's premier food producer--a position it has never surrendered.

Avoiding the use of inflation altered stats, a comparison of the growth in manufacturing jobs from about 1 million in 1850 to over 5 million in 1900 shows a 400% increase in manufacturing. For that to be the same rate of growth as then, we would have to have created over 25 million manufacturing jobs by 1940 and 100 million by 1980, which obviously did not happen.

Our fastest growth in real terms like number of people hired, iron produced, etc, was from 1850 to 1910, and the fastest period of that was 1870 to 1900.

Yes, the financial industry suffered during that time because people were investing in actual businesses and not playing the Wall Street casino.

Too ******* bad; it was great for the rest of the country.

You said "our economy grew fastest" during this time period. That's not really true. Growth was good, but per capita economic growth was about the same during that time period as the following 100 years.

Growth during that time period was due to a wave of tremendous innovation and technological advancement. We also had a high level of immigration, which grew the internal market at a very fast rate. So unless you want to allow in millions more immigrants and find a way to accelerate innovation, your analogy isn't relevant.

Besides, Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs are not coming back here. Even if we put on 40% tariffs, the composition of capital and labor will shift to capital for the same reason why a $15 minimum wage will replace jobs for automation.

I know you really, really, really want to believe otherwise, but technology, not trade, has been the primary reason why lower skilled production jobs have disappeared.

 

[Toro]

The conservative one. Lower taxes and regulations .... You know the PROVEN shit.

Which is what Trump wants. A tariff will make them rethink theirs.

Dude Tariffs are the exact opposite of that and he has Not said he will lower taxes... Actually he has said he will raise them several times but in his defense he talks out of all five of his faces so we really don't know what the **** he will do other then insult cripples and peoples families like a asshole.

Yes, he has said he wants to lower taxes, said it all along. Corporate down to 15%, where were you? And my point was a tariff might make them rethink theirs. If they drop theirs we can drop ours.

I don't really care if he insults a few assholes, they sling mud and expect to be squeaky clean?

Global tariffs are about 2.5%. They were 40% in 1945. They can't go much lower.

But they can still go lower, so what is your point, Einstein?

My point is that your argument is a canard. Tariffs have been falling, not rising.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Lol

 

[JimBowie1958]

My point is that your argument is a canard. Tariffs have been falling, not rising.

Maybe you are thinking of IceWeazel; I did not say that tariffs are rising and I dont see where he did either.

 

[Toro]

My point is that your argument is a canard. Tariffs have been falling, not rising.

Maybe you are thinking of IceWeazel; I did not say that tariffs are rising and I dont see where he did either.

Ice implied that that their tariffs were the reason why we were being hurt when he said if we raise ours, maybe they'll lower theirs.

Tariffs are not an issue any more. The anti-free marketers point to non-tariff barriers and other technical issues.

Tariffs haven't been an issue for 20 years because they are so low. Trade negotiations today revolve around rules and laws, not tariffs.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

Our country already has tariffs, and always has had tariffs. Our economy grew fastest when we had strong tariffs from 1870 to 1910.

Well, that really wasn't our fastest growth. In fact, that time period was a period of high economic volatility, with some of our worst depressions in history. In fact, about half the time, the economy was in recession or depression. We had our worst depression as a nation until 1929 from 1873 to 1879.

The Development of the Industrial United States (1870-1900)

1870-1900
From the era of Reconstruction to the end of the 19th century, the United States underwent an economic transformation marked by the maturing of the industrial economy, the rapid expansion of big business, the development of large-scale agriculture, and the rise of national labor unions and industrial conflict.

An outburst of technological innovation in the late 19th century fueled this headlong economic growth. However, the accompanying rise of the American corporation and the advent of big business resulted in a concentration of the nation's productive capacities in fewer and fewer hands. Mechanization brought farming into the realm of big business as well, making the United States the world's premier food producer--a position it has never surrendered.

Avoiding the use of inflation altered stats, a comparison of the growth in manufacturing jobs from about 1 million in 1850 to over 5 million in 1900 shows a 400% increase in manufacturing. For that to be the same rate of growth as then, we would have to have created over 25 million manufacturing jobs by 1940 and 100 million by 1980, which obviously did not happen.

Our fastest growth in real terms like number of people hired, iron produced, etc, was from 1850 to 1910, and the fastest period of that was 1870 to 1900.

Yes, the financial industry suffered during that time because people were investing in actual businesses and not playing the Wall Street casino.

Too ******* bad; it was great for the rest of the country.

You said "our economy grew fastest" during this time period. That's not really true. Growth was good, but per capita economic growth was about the same during that time period than the following 100 years.

View attachment 84610

Growth during that time period was due to a wave of tremendous innovation and technological advancement. We also had a high level of immigration, which grew the internal market at a very fast rate. So unless you want to allow in millions more immigrants and find a way to accelerate innovation, your analogy isn't relevant.

Besides, Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs are not coming back here. Even if we put on 40% tariffs, the composition of capital and labor will shift to capital for the same reason why a $15 minimum wage will replace jobs for automation.

I know you really, really, really want to believe otherwise, but technology, not trade, has been the primary reason why lower skilled production jobs have disappeared.

Yes, I meant our industrial complex grew fastest, not financials or service sector that is the biggest growth now.

But the point is that protectionism grows production within ones own economic area, though some other sectors might not grow as well. But primary industries like manufacturing have a strong ripple effect, creating more jobs by high rates of consumer growth.

And if we reverse the tax structure and regulatory costs with targeted tariffs to offset the costs of having a business here in the US, we can bring these jobs back, though robots might end up with a great majority of them anyway by 2030.

 

[JimBowie1958]

My point is that your argument is a canard. Tariffs have been falling, not rising.

Maybe you are thinking of IceWeazel; I did not say that tariffs are rising and I dont see where he did either.

Ice implied that that their tariffs were the reason why we were being hurt when he said if we raise ours, maybe they'll lower theirs.

Tariffs are not an issue any more. The anti-free marketers point to non-tariff barriers and other technical issues.

Tariffs haven't been an issue for 20 years because they are so low. Trade negotiations today revolve around rules and laws, not tariffs.

But facts would appear to be contradicting your sloganeering today, Toro.

Lol, 23% of Conservatives Are Not Supporting Trump? Really?
In 1984, President Ronald Reagan suggested that we pursue free and fair trade with free and fair traders. Note that Reagan said free and fair trade. Competing nations are not playing by the rules, and the consequences are alarming.

Goods coming in from the European Union face no tariffs, which is a special fee put on imports. However, American goods exported to Europe are marked up 15 to 20% due to a special tax known as the value added tax, or VAT. Thus, American goods sold in Europe cost significantly more than their competitors’.

With a similar situation occurring with other nations, it is no wonder the United States imports far more than it exports. Letting others fleece the economy for all it is worth is not free trade. Since other nations are not engaging in true free trade, it makes no sense for the United States to do so. Instead of free trade, we need fair trade.

Fair trade would consist of creating baseline levels of economic protection, to prevent American industries from going out of business due to unfair competition. The abandonment of fair trade has created a worldwide race to the bottom in wages and environmental standards. This is a situation that no one wins in, except for shareholders and executives of big companies that profit from the status quo.

 

[Toro]

How is he going to do that by crippling the economy with tariffs???

Our country already has tariffs, and always has had tariffs. Our economy grew fastest when we had strong tariffs from 1870 to 1910.

Well, that really wasn't our fastest growth. In fact, that time period was a period of high economic volatility, with some of our worst depressions in history. In fact, about half the time, the economy was in recession or depression. We had our worst depression as a nation until 1929 from 1873 to 1879.

The Development of the Industrial United States (1870-1900)

1870-1900
From the era of Reconstruction to the end of the 19th century, the United States underwent an economic transformation marked by the maturing of the industrial economy, the rapid expansion of big business, the development of large-scale agriculture, and the rise of national labor unions and industrial conflict.

An outburst of technological innovation in the late 19th century fueled this headlong economic growth. However, the accompanying rise of the American corporation and the advent of big business resulted in a concentration of the nation's productive capacities in fewer and fewer hands. Mechanization brought farming into the realm of big business as well, making the United States the world's premier food producer--a position it has never surrendered.

Avoiding the use of inflation altered stats, a comparison of the growth in manufacturing jobs from about 1 million in 1850 to over 5 million in 1900 shows a 400% increase in manufacturing. For that to be the same rate of growth as then, we would have to have created over 25 million manufacturing jobs by 1940 and 100 million by 1980, which obviously did not happen.

Our fastest growth in real terms like number of people hired, iron produced, etc, was from 1850 to 1910, and the fastest period of that was 1870 to 1900.

Yes, the financial industry suffered during that time because people were investing in actual businesses and not playing the Wall Street casino.

Too ******* bad; it was great for the rest of the country.

You said "our economy grew fastest" during this time period. That's not really true. Growth was good, but per capita economic growth was about the same during that time period than the following 100 years.

View attachment 84610

Growth during that time period was due to a wave of tremendous innovation and technological advancement. We also had a high level of immigration, which grew the internal market at a very fast rate. So unless you want to allow in millions more immigrants and find a way to accelerate innovation, your analogy isn't relevant.

Besides, Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs are not coming back here. Even if we put on 40% tariffs, the composition of capital and labor will shift to capital for the same reason why a $15 minimum wage will replace jobs for automation.

I know you really, really, really want to believe otherwise, but technology, not trade, has been the primary reason why lower skilled production jobs have disappeared.

Yes, I meant our industrial complex grew fastest, not financials or service sector that is the biggest growth now.

But the point is that protectionism grows production within ones own economic area, though some other sectors might not grow as well. But primary industries like manufacturing have a strong ripple effect, creating more jobs by high rates of consumer growth.

And if we reverse the tax structure and regulatory costs with targeted tariffs to offset the costs of having a business here in the US, we can bring these jobs back, though robots might end up with a great majority of them anyway by 2030.

I believe we should cut corporate taxes and deregulate, but higher tariffs won't help because they raise the costs of doing business, which is what corporate taxes and regulation do.

Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, any more than agricultural jobs aren't coming back. Agriculture employed nearly half of Americans in 1900. Today, it employs about 3%. And our agricultural output is 10x higher. Even though manufacturing employment has fallen, manufacturing output is at all-time highs.

Manufacturing jobs aren't a panacea. Protecting manufacturing jobs is a wealth redistribution scheme because it is the government using taxes to affect economic outcomes to favored and privileged industries. Governments should get out of the way and let the free market do its thing.

 

[Toro]

My point is that your argument is a canard. Tariffs have been falling, not rising.

Maybe you are thinking of IceWeazel; I did not say that tariffs are rising and I dont see where he did either.

Ice implied that that their tariffs were the reason why we were being hurt when he said if we raise ours, maybe they'll lower theirs.

Tariffs are not an issue any more. The anti-free marketers point to non-tariff barriers and other technical issues.

Tariffs haven't been an issue for 20 years because they are so low. Trade negotiations today revolve around rules and laws, not tariffs.

But facts would appear to be contradicting your sloganeering today, Toro.

Lol, 23% of Conservatives Are Not Supporting Trump? Really?
In 1984, President Ronald Reagan suggested that we pursue free and fair trade with free and fair traders. Note that Reagan said free and fair trade. Competing nations are not playing by the rules, and the consequences are alarming.

Goods coming in from the European Union face no tariffs, which is a special fee put on imports. However, American goods exported to Europe are marked up 15 to 20% due to a special tax known as the value added tax, or VAT. Thus, American goods sold in Europe cost significantly more than their competitors’.

With a similar situation occurring with other nations, it is no wonder the United States imports far more than it exports. Letting others fleece the economy for all it is worth is not free trade. Since other nations are not engaging in true free trade, it makes no sense for the United States to do so. Instead of free trade, we need fair trade.

Fair trade would consist of creating baseline levels of economic protection, to prevent American industries from going out of business due to unfair competition. The abandonment of fair trade has created a worldwide race to the bottom in wages and environmental standards. This is a situation that no one wins in, except for shareholders and executives of big companies that profit from the status quo.

That's simply incorrect. Sorry. Your source is wrong because he is omitting a very important point.

All goods and services are subject to VAT in Europe, regardless of where they are made. The author implies that only American goods are subject to VAT. All goods and services are subject to VAT, whether they are made in Europe, America, Asia, or wherever.

What the anti-free marketers argue regarding VAT is that the VAT is rebated to companies that export to America.

 

[Toro]

I can think of at least 5 USMB conservatives who have problems with Trump - Boss, TheRabbi, Thanatos, Cecilie1200 and Avatar4321