Living Together Peacefully in America's "Arab Street"

[Adam's Apple]

Living Together Peacefully in Heart of Arab America
By Pierre M. Atlas, The Indianapolis Star
July 28, 2005

DEARBORN, Mich.-- I traveled to Dearborn with my friend Charlie Wiles, a third-generation Hoosier and Lebanese American, to soak in what might be called America's "Arab street." About 300 miles northeast of Indy, Dearborn is home to the largest concentration of Arabs outside the Middle East. Thirty percent of Dearborn's residents are of Arab origin, as are half the kids in its public schools.

Storefronts have signs in Arabic as well as English and shopkeepers bid goodbye to customers with "Allah Ma'ak" or "God be with you." Arab markets, bakeries and halal butcher shops line West Warren Street, and many shops display large inventories of narghilas, the traditional water pipe smoked in the Middle East. The sights, sounds and smells reminded me of my visit to Jordan last summer. But Dearborn is unlike any city in the Arab world -- because it is also American.

The first Arab-American museum in the country recently opened here. Its wall of fame identifies notable Arab Americans in various fields. Famous sports figures include pro football stars Darren and Doug Flutie, Indy car champ Bobby Rahal and bowler Eddie Elias. Famous political figures include Ralph Nader, John Sununu, former U.S. Sens. George Mitchell and Spencer Abraham, and Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels.

America has always attracted people from around the world because of its religious and political freedom, tolerance of difference, and economic opportunity. Dearborn epitomizes these traits. The Arab population is Christian and Muslim, Sunni and Shia, pious and secular, and they live, work and eat side by side. Dearborn has a palpable sense of "live and let live," and we were told this also applies to relations between Arabs and the non-Arab majority.

"Arabs came to the U.S. to realize the American Dream," says Adnan Baydoun, president of the Bint Jebail Cultural Center and editor of the Arabic language section of the community's newspaper, the Arab-American News.

Neal Abu Nab, a Palestinian American originally from Ramallah, agrees. He has filmed a documentary about the Arab-American experience called "The Arabian Dream."

Abu Nab is Sunni and Baydoun is a Lebanese Shiite. These distinctions made little difference to them as they sat in Baydoun's office smoking cigarettes and talking of Dearborn. Abu Nab suggests that "Dearborn is a model of how Arabs can get along in a democracy."

for full article:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050728/OPINION/507280383/10...

 

[William Joyce]

Ah, yes, wonderful, wonderful. Arabs came here for the American dream. Funny, Americans never go to Arab countries for the Arab dream. Why is that?

Do "dreams" come from nowhere, like magic, or are they the result of culturally-specific behaviors and attitudes? Does the white population of this country make a mistake by inviting everyone from around the globe to participate in its "dream"? Is it a good thing, within limits, but a bad thing, taken too far?

I think the answer is yes.

Arab culture, like Jewish culture, African culture, Hispanic culture, etc., is respectable and fine IN ITS OWN PLACE. But so is white culture. But sadly, white culture is the only one that doesn't think it has a right to exist. And this attitude will be its downfall.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Joyce, you completely missed the writer's point in this article, which is that Arabs are able to adapt to and successfully live in a democracy.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

Arab culture, like Jewish culture, African culture, Hispanic culture, etc., is respectable and fine IN ITS OWN PLACE. But so is white culture.

What makes you think the USA is the only place with white people in it? These countries have a huge white majority back when American was 100% Native Indian and didn't have a single Caucasian in it: Australia (92%), Austria (88%), Czech Republic (~99%), Finland (99%), Germany (91%), Greece (98%)... and many others. Link

I think people in the above countries would be deeply insulted if you suggested they were not white. Maybe if you are upset by the fact that the majority of Americans (sorry, you have a minority viewpoint in the US) have democratically decided that they favour a multicultural sociey, you would be happier in Sweden? I was there a few years ago and there wasn't a darkie around! I've heard Australia is nice too and they aren't as socialist as Sweden so maybe the land down under would be even better for you?

But sadly, white culture is the only one that doesn't think it has a right to exist. And this attitude will be its downfall.

Don't be so hard on white culture. What you seem to be fed up with is American culture because there are plenty of countries on earth which are almost all white.

 

[William Joyce]

Maybe if you are upset by the fact that the majority of Americans (sorry, you have a minority viewpoint in the US) have democratically decided that they favour a multicultural sociey

Disagree with my conclusions all you want, but it is simply not true that the "majority of Americans have democratically decided that they favor a multicultural society." White Americans have done no such thing. "Multiculturalism" had and has practically ZERO popular support. It's all come down on us by way of government edict, education brainwashing, judicial fiat and cultural usurpation. It's a left-wing attack on traditional American culture, and yes, the majority white population. "Integration," for instance, that much-vaunted good, has been a total failure. Busing, a failure. It took guns and high taxes and other federal forces to get it to happen, and even then, people (of all races) hated it. Blacks today have been quoted as saying they aren't enthusiastic about busing any more. Immigration? Don't get me started. The overwhelming majority of Americans are dead set against it, but our politicians shove it down our throats anyway. And it doesn't end there. Just pop into any lunchroom in the nation: blacks at one table, whites at the next.

Fact is that what people really want is to be with their own races. They demonstrate this time and time again. There was nothing "democratic" about the turning of America into a Third-World shithole. I didn't vote for it, and much as my views are supposed to reviled, few others did.

Because however much you want to yell about me being a "racist," the fact is that way, way more Americans feel the way I do than will probably ever say out loud or even on an anonymous Internet chat board.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

Disagree with my conclusions all you want, but it is simply not true that the "majority of Americans have democratically decided that they favor a multicultural society." White Americans have done no such thing. "Multiculturalism" had and has practically ZERO popular support. It's all come down on us by way of government edict, education brainwashing, judicial fiat and cultural usurpation.

Interesting how you only responded to a single line of my post. Since socalist countries like Finland have managed to stay 99% white, what have the left wing Finnish people done right that right wing America has failed at?

Regardless, I guess by your own admission, democracy has been a complete and utter failure in the US. What of the right to bear arms in order to stop a government from oppressing the people it serves? If you are right and multiculturalism has had ZERO support, why hasn't nearly every American taken up their arms and stormed the White House? You seem to have a lot of contempt for the government but it sounds to me like you also have a lot of contempt for the American people and the Constitution of your country that has obviously failed miserably to keep the government accountable to the people.

 

[William Joyce]

If you are right and multiculturalism has had ZERO support, why hasn't nearly every American taken up their arms and stormed the White House? You seem to have a lot of contempt for the government but it sounds to me like you also have a lot of contempt for the American people and the Constitution of your country that has obviously failed miserably to keep the government accountable to the people.

Well, you got me there. Maybe I do have some contempt for "the people," but not any more than most, lib and con. I don't think the Constitution has failed us and I certainly don't have contempt for it. I just think we've been beset by a demographic assault, and that we should be fighting back. Why people aren't "taking up arms," as you say, can be explained: do that, and you get killed by the government. But as far as white resistance goes, the U.S. finds ways to put folks like David Duke in jail on trumped-charges, so it's scary to speak out.

 

[Annie]

Well, you got me there. Maybe I do have some contempt for "the people," but not any more than most, lib and con. I don't think the Constitution has failed us and I certainly don't have contempt for it. I just think we've been beset by a demographic assault, and that we should be fighting back. Why people aren't "taking up arms," as you say, can be explained: do that, and you get killed by the government. But as far as white resistance goes, the U.S. finds ways to put folks like David Duke in jail on trumped-charges, so it's scary to speak out.

WJ, expound. I never thought I'd say that. Are you talking Koresh? Please do not tell me you are of the mindset of Matthew Hale?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Y'all can't argue with Sweet William. His white supremacist dogma is so deeply ingrained that no logical argument can pass it. He is a fearful little creature who deserves both our pity and our scorn.

 

[William Joyce]

WJ, expound. I never thought I'd say that. Are you talking Koresh? Please do not tell me you are of the mindset of Matthew Hale?

I'm not really into Jesus much, so Koresh isn't my bag, and I'm not into parading around giving the Nazi salute, so Matt Hale isn't my bag, either. I was asked a question about why whites don't take up arms about their displacement. My answer was, partly because doing so would cause a government crackdown --- which I'm sure you'd agree is true. And partly because the issue is so taboo that people can't even talk about it without getting in trouble --- which is also true.

None of which changes the fact that whites are a people who, contrary to liberal opinion, DID found and build America, and who are losing this country to multiracialism. That's an injustice because it means our interests as a people are compromised: we don't get the jobs, we don't run our own affairs, etc. All bad.

Yes, there are folks who seek a bloody and violent white revolution. I can't do anything about that any more than I can do something about all the anti-white discrimination in America. My hope is that white people will use their freedom of speech and the political and legal systems to win back their right of association and survival.

Is that so radical?

You wouldn't say so if blacks said the exact same thing, I bet.

 

[Annie]

I'm not really into Jesus much, so Koresh isn't my bag, and I'm not into parading around giving the Nazi salute, so Matt Hale isn't my bag, either. I was asked a question about why whites don't take up arms about their displacement. My answer was, partly because doing so would cause a government crackdown --- which I'm sure you'd agree is true. And partly because the issue is so taboo that people can't even talk about it without getting in trouble --- which is also true.

None of which changes the fact that whites are a people who, contrary to liberal opinion, DID found and build America, and who are losing this country to multiracialism. That's an injustice because it means our interests as a people are compromised: we don't get the jobs, we don't run our own affairs, etc. All bad.

Yes, there are folks who seek a bloody and violent white revolution. I can't do anything about that any more than I can do something about all the anti-white discrimination in America. My hope is that white people will use their freedom of speech and the political and legal systems to win back their right of association and survival.

Is that so radical?

You wouldn't say so if blacks said the exact same thing, I bet.

Wouldn't go to violence on any side. As for legal, yeah. I figure that their should be way more reverse discrimination cases brought and won, and enforced.

If 'free speech' is of the hatred variety, from any side, I would speak out about the ignorant. Do you really want to be on the side of an Al Sharpton?

 

[William Joyce]

Al Sharpton is a liar, a fake, a crook and bloated piece of crap besides. He and I would probably not get along. But he is loyal to his race, and in my view, that makes him a damn sight better than most blacks and most whites.

 

[Gunny]

Disagree with my conclusions all you want, but it is simply not true that the "majority of Americans have democratically decided that they favor a multicultural society." White Americans have done no such thing. "Multiculturalism" had and has practically ZERO popular support. It's all come down on us by way of government edict, education brainwashing, judicial fiat and cultural usurpation. It's a left-wing attack on traditional American culture, and yes, the majority white population. "Integration," for instance, that much-vaunted good, has been a total failure. Busing, a failure. It took guns and high taxes and other federal forces to get it to happen, and even then, people (of all races) hated it. Blacks today have been quoted as saying they aren't enthusiastic about busing any more. Immigration? Don't get me started. The overwhelming majority of Americans are dead set against it, but our politicians shove it down our throats anyway. And it doesn't end there. Just pop into any lunchroom in the nation: blacks at one table, whites at the next.

Fact is that what people really want is to be with their own races. They demonstrate this time and time again. There was nothing "democratic" about the turning of America into a Third-World shithole. I didn't vote for it, and much as my views are supposed to reviled, few others did.

Because however much you want to yell about me being a "racist," the fact is that way, way more Americans feel the way I do than will probably ever say out loud or even on an anonymous Internet chat board.

We all choose to associate exclusively, and most associate exclusively with their own race/culture/kind. It's a lot easier to associate with those who you have something in common with, and I doubt many disagree with anyone who wishes to do so.

It's when you get to the part that you hate anything that is different than you that eyebrows are raised.

A Marine who happened to be black saved my ass on one occasion. He was one of the best Marines I've ever known, and is STILL my friend. I'm glad he didn't think like you.

 

[William Joyce]

A Marine who happened to be black saved my ass on one occasion. He was one of the best Marines I've ever known, and is STILL my friend. I'm glad he didn't think like you.

That is great and I respect your position. But to my mind, it does not diminish the reality of broad-scale racial incompatibility. How many white soldiers died fighting for Union forces, which were by most accounts trying liberate slaves? Have you ever heard of blacks offering thanks for that? If you can find a single black person grateful for those sacrifices by whites, and quote me the source, it would advance your argument tremendously.

Yes, there are instances in which members of different races have played Good Samaritan, and that can be heartwarming and inspiring. But that's like remembering a single tender moment with your spouse as justification for not going through with a divorce that is otherwise clearly necessary.

 

[c.inquisition]

That is great and I respect your position. But to my mind, it does not diminish the reality of broad-scale racial incompatibility. How many white soldiers died fighting for Union forces, which were by most accounts trying liberate slaves? Have you ever heard of blacks offering thanks for that? If you can find a single black person grateful for those sacrifices by whites, and quote me the source, it would advance your argument tremendously.

Yes, there are instances in which members of different races have played Good Samaritan, and that can be heartwarming and inspiring. But that's like remembering a single tender moment with your spouse as justification for not going through with a divorce that is otherwise clearly necessary.

But I'll leave it at There's no real way to respond to your post because it is not rational. I take that back, I could, but it would take too long.

 

[c.inquisition]

Al Sharpton is a liar, a fake, a crook and bloated piece of crap besides. He and I would probably not get along. But he is loyal to his race, and in my view, that makes him a damn sight better than most blacks and most whites.

At least we have similar positions on Al Sharpton.

 

[Gunny]

That is great and I respect your position. But to my mind, it does not diminish the reality of broad-scale racial incompatibility. How many white soldiers died fighting for Union forces, which were by most accounts trying liberate slaves? Have you ever heard of blacks offering thanks for that? If you can find a single black person grateful for those sacrifices by whites, and quote me the source, it would advance your argument tremendously.

Yes, there are instances in which members of different races have played Good Samaritan, and that can be heartwarming and inspiring. But that's like remembering a single tender moment with your spouse as justification for not going through with a divorce that is otherwise clearly necessary.

My point is, individuals do not deserve to be stereotyped unless they fit the stereotype. Until then, they should be judged on merit.

And dude, blacks don't thank anyone for the Union freeing them for several reasons. For one, it was the same Union that allowed them to be enslaved and brought here to begin with.

Two, the Civil War was about money and power. Rich Northeastern financiers and industry moguls wanted it all, and Southern aristocrats stood in their way.

Slavery was a symptom, but not the cause of the US Civil War.

 

[William Joyce]

My point is, individuals do not deserve to be stereotyped unless they fit the stereotype. Until then, they should be judged on merit.

This is a worthy goal, but only to a point. And I know it goes against everything we've been taught by our culture, but here goes:

Groups are just as much --- if not more so --- a locus of power and social function as individuals. The most relevant among them are racial and ethnic groups. This is for biological reasons: Races are like extended families, as demonstrated by genetic studies. Therefore, it is logical and moral to use group status as a marker or evaluation tool. To say that all individuals should be judged by merit does not account for the way the world really works --- which is big, fast and fluid. How much research is necessary? We don't have the time or energy to conduct investigations of every human on earth for every single interaction. Black kid coming down the sidewalk? FBI stats say, he's 50 times more likely to mug you than an Asian kid. That's a cold, hard fact. So, are you going to sit him down for a little interview, or scoot across the street? We need to be practical here. Yes, that is stereotyping --- but it could save your life. We have become so PC brainwashed, so worried about hurting people's feelings, that we have forgotten common sense. The liberal creed is, "never mind facts, go with the fantasy." And sometimes, these fantasies are downright dangerous --- even deadly. Liberals told young people: go do drugs, no worries. And some ended up dead. Or, have sex all around town, no worries. And some ended up dead. It's the same with race. We're told "all races are equal," but that's a lie. It's a fantasy. It's not reality. But people are willing to die to prove this fantasy right. And that's wrong!

 

[Gunny]

This is a worthy goal, but only to a point. And I know it goes against everything we've been taught by our culture, but here goes:

Groups are just as much --- if not more so --- a locus of power and social function as individuals. The most relevant among them are racial and ethnic groups. This is for biological reasons: Races are like extended families, as demonstrated by genetic studies. Therefore, it is logical and moral to use group status as a marker or evaluation tool. To say that all individuals should be judged by merit does not account for the way the world really works --- which is big, fast and fluid. How much research is necessary? We don't have the time or energy to conduct investigations of every human on earth for every single interaction. Black kid coming down the sidewalk? FBI stats say, he's 50 times more likely to mug you than an Asian kid. That's a cold, hard fact. So, are you going to sit him down for a little interview, or scoot across the street? We need to be practical here. Yes, that is stereotyping --- but it could save your life. We have become so PC brainwashed, so worried about hurting people's feelings, that we have forgotten common sense. The liberal creed is, "never mind facts, go with the fantasy." And sometimes, these fantasies are downright dangerous --- even deadly. Liberals told young people: go do drugs, no worries. And some ended up dead. Or, have sex all around town, no worries. And some ended up dead. It's the same with race. We're told "all races are equal," but that's a lie. It's a fantasy. It's not reality. But people are willing to die to prove this fantasy right. And that's wrong!

Read my first post in this thread. I already said it. I have no problem with socially exclusive groups if that is what trips one's trigger. PC is one thing I am not, and I don't care WHO it offends.

BUT, all people in general are equal, regardless race. It is what one makes of oneself/becomes that makes them either more or less equal than others.

 

[William Joyce]

all people in general are equal, regardless race.

This is the simply the most incorrect assessment of humanity every propounded, and its original propounder was the left.

All people are NOT EQUAL. They differ in intelligence, in culture, in strength, in cohesion, in absolutely everyting. And race has much to do with it. The empirical evidence for this is staggering. Yet the liberal left, the media, and the rest of our guardians persist in a Big Brother-style enforcement of this idea, which depressingly has wholly taken over the "mainstream" American right. But a true American right remains, however small, to disabuse the rest of this communist, socialist, liberal, left idea.

If you believe that "all people are equal," there is nothing you won't believe from the left's agenda. This is exactly what the communists preached: and if "all people are equal," why shouldnt' they get equal pay, a la communism? This is the issue upon which all the rest of their issues depend; they don't care what you think about gun rights, abortion, the free market or the rest. So long as you believe that goddamned lie, "all races are equal," the rest is PATTY CAKE for them and you are defeated.

Stand with the strong and reject this lie.