Living Document or Not?

But since you made no evidence for your affirmation, I will simply state that SCOTUS the ruling must supply, and then, little weasel, you must comply.

You are the one arguing the AFFIRMATIVE dip shit. You are the one contending that the constitution DOES permit the fed to require private purchases of citizens. How ******* slow are you? PER YOUR OWN RULES YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO SHOW THE EVIDENCE. Get crackin weasel.

don't let jake get to you...he is on another board i post at and an hour ago told me he just likes to rile conservatives with his routine here....he is just trolling

Believe me I am quite familiar with the debate style of the weasel. It's just amusing to watch someone who thinks they're so smart look so stupid. Trolling is one thing. A complete lack of integrity is another. And if he's trying to rile conservatives, he needs to bark up another tree 'cause I'm not much of one.
 
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But since you made no evidence for your affirmation, I will simply state that SCOTUS the ruling must supply, and then, little weasel, you must comply.

You are the one arguing the AFFIRMATIVE dip shit. You are the one contending that the constitution DOES permit the fed to require private purchases of citizens. How ******* slow are you? PER YOUR OWN RULES YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO SHOW THE EVIDENCE. Get crackin weasel.

Bern, stop the lying. I responded to you, did I not? I don't have to provide anything until you post. Very simple, the elastic clause, in pursuit of constitutional goals, protects the legislation. SCOTUS will be the final ruler. The SCOTUS does the ruling supply, then the Bern must comply.

What have I lied about? According to your own rules yes you do. He who provides the argument in the affirmative must provide the evidence for it.

Let's try again. What part of the constitution allows the fed to require people make private purchases?
 
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Very amusing that Bern, like all reactionaries, post an opinion without any evidence, that expects others to refute it. There is a reason why the far right reactionaries are keeping the GOP in the minority since 2006 and will do the same this fall. It is the type of reasoning used by Bern and others here.

Guys, mainstream American does not buy your BS. You are busted, bankrupted, keep wanting to go back to Bush policies that killed the economy. Come on you doofi. Keep it up, you lose. Simple as that.
 
You are the one arguing the AFFIRMATIVE dip shit. You are the one contending that the constitution DOES permit the fed to require private purchases of citizens. How ******* slow are you? PER YOUR OWN RULES YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO SHOW THE EVIDENCE. Get crackin weasel.

Bern, stop the lying. I responded to you, did I not? I don't have to provide anything until you post. Very simple, the elastic clause, in pursuit of constitutional goals, protects the legislation. SCOTUS will be the final ruler. The SCOTUS does the ruling supply, then the Bern must comply.

What have I lied about? According to your own rules yes you do. He who provides the argument in the affirmative must provide the evidence for it.

Do you truly not understand that if you post an opinion first, you have to support it?

Here: do some reading. How to debate effectively and rationally. then inform your buds here who do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Forget Rush's Roles for GOP Fools and learn something. Good luck.
 
No. That's not the "only" way we can determine that a law is unconstitutional.

If Congress for some ridiculous reason passed a law that said no white person (or no black person, it really doesn't matter which one for this silly hypothetical) would be eligible to serve in the nation's armed services -- or would no longer be permitted to vote in Federal elections unless they brought property tax receipts -- it would be a good thing if the President made a determination articulated in his veto message that the act was unconstitutional. He can do that, you know.

Now say that the idiot Congress overrode the veto. Then the President might simply REFUSE to enforce that law or permit anybody in the Federal branch to give it ANY effect.

NOW we might have a court battle looming. The jerkoffs in Congress MIGHT sue to compel the President to enforce the law, but the President might get the Court to dismiss the lawsuit on the ground that the bill is Unconstitutional. The point is, that whole "go to the SCOTUS" thing is not the only way to determine that something is a violation of the Constitution.

Hell. For that matter, if the SCOTUS were to determine that the Congressional act DIDN'T violate the Constitution, does anybody REALLY think that the obviously and facially unconstitutional Act is somehow now made pure and wholesome and Constitutional?

nicely written

Liability, you are just plain stupid. The final determiner of what is Constitutional is SCOTUS. Your silly hypothesis does not address that salient point. Now shut up if you can't address this.

You are such a reactionary munchkin right along with bigreb.

Even on the most basic of points Jokey is consistently unable to be honest or accurate. And true to his pathetic form, he's done it again. Wrong again, shit-eater.

If we disagree with a Constitutional determination made by the SCOTUS, shitbreath, we can reverse the SCOTUS. I am sure you don't have the foggiest ******* notion of how that might be accomplished, even though there have been posts on this Board many times discussing it.

Why don't you take your own generally worthless advice, you ******* skell rat sucker? Just run along, now. Nobody places ANY stock in anything you have to say because you are a complete ******* useless lying piece of shit and we all see through you, you anus.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about on curing the severability clause in legislation. I did take legislation in law school but I don't recall that one, you'll have to enlighten me.

Courts are supposed to construe legislation in a way to hold it valid, if possible, right? I think I remember that was sort of the default in terms of separation of powers. So it seems to me that would also lead to a Court saving parts of a legislation if those parts are salvageable.

My point on severability comes from Atty Gen. Cuccinelli. His point was if the law does not contain a severability clause (like most contracts do), then the court cannot, as a matter of law, "save parts of the law." If it does contain that, then you are right, it gets treated like the AZ law just did. The court has to parse it and see what parts to strike and what parts are retained.

So, that's his opinion, I don't really have an independent basis for saying one way or the other. I haven't done independent research on that point of law.

A severability clause is like belts and suspenders. It is a clear expression of legislative intent to the effect that a legislature affirmatively wishes to preserve as much of their act as possible should a court later find a part or parts to be Constitutionally invalid.

However, as a general rule, Courts will not rule on the constitutionality of an entire act when asked to consider only a portion of it. And general principles of Judicial restraint normally require that a ruling be as limited as necessary to address the actual case or controversy.

Now all of that ^ is pretty much from memory and I am not about to engage in a whole lot of legal research, to be candid here. But, I did come across this which is pretty much right on point:

“Unless it is evident that the Legislature would not have enacted those provisions which are within its power, independently of that which is not, the invalid part may be dropped if what is left is fully operative as a law.” Alaska Airlines, Inc. v. Brock, 480 U.S. 678, 684 (1987) (quoting Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1, 108 (1976)).
 
Liability, quit the nonsense. No one with a brain pays any serious attention to what you think or what you say. You are an oxygen thief is all.
 
Courts are supposed to construe legislation in a way to hold it valid, if possible, right? I think I remember that was sort of the default in terms of separation of powers. So it seems to me that would also lead to a Court saving parts of a legislation if those parts are salvageable.

My point on severability comes from Atty Gen. Cuccinelli. His point was if the law does not contain a severability clause (like most contracts do), then the court cannot, as a matter of law, "save parts of the law." If it does contain that, then you are right, it gets treated like the AZ law just did. The court has to parse it and see what parts to strike and what parts are retained.

So, that's his opinion, I don't really have an independent basis for saying one way or the other. I haven't done independent research on that point of law.

A severability clause is like belts and suspenders. It is a clear expression of legislative intent to the effect that a legislature affirmatively wishes to preserve as much of their act as possible should a court later find a part or parts to be Constitutionally invalid.

However, as a general rule, Courts will not rule on the constitutionality of an entire act when asked to consider only a portion of it. And general principles of Judicial restraint normally require that a ruling be as limited as necessary to address the actual case or controversy.

Now all of that ^ is pretty much from memory and I am not about to engage in a whole lot of legal research, to be candid here. But, I did come across this which is pretty much right on point:

“Unless it is evident that the Legislature would not have enacted those provisions which are within its power, independently of that which is not, the invalid part may be dropped if what is left is fully operative as a law.” Alaska Airlines, Inc. v. Brock, 480 U.S. 678, 684 (1987) (quoting Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1, 108 (1976)).

Nice. Thanks for the effort on that. I get the point, but to the point of the quote, I wonder if you remove the heart and soul of the health care plan, the requirement for everyone to purchase it, does meet the test the court states "Unless it is evident that the Legislature would not have enacted...."?

I'm not sure it does, but I'm sure it's one the judge will have to ponder. It seems to me that the house of cards falls if people don't have to purchase insurance. It would completely screw up the pools because not enough healthy people would sign up. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. As a citizen of Virginia, I would just be happy to have the mandate off, so I could keep the insurance I presently have and not be told I have to have a different plan with provisions I don't need.
 
Bern, stop the lying. I responded to you, did I not? I don't have to provide anything until you post. Very simple, the elastic clause, in pursuit of constitutional goals, protects the legislation. SCOTUS will be the final ruler. The SCOTUS does the ruling supply, then the Bern must comply.

What have I lied about? According to your own rules yes you do. He who provides the argument in the affirmative must provide the evidence for it.

Do you truly not understand that if you post an opinion first, you have to support it?

Here: do some reading. How to debate effectively and rationally. then inform your buds here who do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Forget Rush's Roles for GOP Fools and learn something. Good luck.

Weasel. I thank you. I have never laughed so hard in my life. The single worst debater on this board (you). The one who NEVER provides evidence of anything. The one who won't EVER answer a direct question, giving advice on how to conduct an effective debate. Hilarious. I'm not sure how conducting a debate while never actually having to discuss the subject matter makes you an effective debater, but if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. Maybe Yurt is right and you're just a troll that think he's being cute by evading and dodging the issue. The reality is your are obviously a person of low moral characer, no itellectual honesty, and no integrity. You should be so proud of yourself.

Did you or did you not state that the person who make the affirmative argument must be the one who supports it with evidence? Yes or No weasel? Do you understand that you are the one making the affirmative argument?

My evidence is quite simple. The constitution grants certain powers to our government. There is nothing that even hints that government has the power to require people to make private purchases. The absence of such a stated authority is my evidence. What it is yours?
 
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As a citizen of Virginia, I would just be happy to have the mandate off, so I could keep the insurance I presently have and not be told I have to have a different plan with provisions I don't need.

Can you tell me when, "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" became ineffective? Seems to me you're worried about something that doesn't exist!!!
 
What have I lied about? According to your own rules yes you do. He who provides the argument in the affirmative must provide the evidence for it.

Do you truly not understand that if you post an opinion first, you have to support it?

Here: do some reading. How to debate effectively and rationally. then inform your buds here who do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Forget Rush's Roles for GOP Fools and learn something. Good luck.

Weasel. I thank you. I have never laughed so hard in my life. The single worst debater on this board (you). The one who NEVER provides evidence of anything. The one who won't EVER answer a direct question, giving advice on how to conduct an effective debate. Hilarious. I'm not sure how conducting a debate while never actually having to discuss the subject matter makes you an effective debater, but if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. Maybe Yurt is right and you're just a troll that think he's being cute by evading and dodging the issue. The reality is your are obviously a person of low moral characer, no itellectual honesty, and no integrity. You should be so proud of yourself.

Did you or did you not state that the person who make the affirmative argument must be the one who supports it with evidence? Yes or No weasel? Do you understand that you are the one making the affirmative argument? My evidnce is quite simple. The constitution grants certain powers to our government. There is nothing that even hints that government has the power to require people to make private purchases. The absence of such a stated authority is my evidence. What it is yours?

No, the person who posts the first OP (understand that can be either positive or negative: "I like coca cola," or "I don't like coca cola") has the burden of proof. Your comments above clearly reveal that you have no more than a 12th grade or 1st year college concept about intellectual inquiry and proof.

Thank you for demonstrating that you have no idea at all about discussion here.

It is your type of thinking that is going to keep the GOP in the minority.
 
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As a citizen of Virginia, I would just be happy to have the mandate off, so I could keep the insurance I presently have and not be told I have to have a different plan with provisions I don't need.

Can you tell me when, "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" became ineffective? Seems to me you're worried about something that doesn't exist!!!

Guess you didn't actually read the bill. Or, you read it, you didn't understand it. It sounds to me like you just bought the hype, hook, line and sinker. You should really do yourself a favor and become educated about the things you think you support.

The provisions of the law say that you must have a "qualified health insurance plan" those qualifications will be determined by a board. If your plan does not meet the coverage required, then you have to get another plan. Since, I have an HSA and a high deductible plan that excludes things like maternity coverage, that you will be required to have, my plan will not be a "qualified plan."

You get it?
 
Tech_Esq, your opinions cannot be trusted by informed individuals. So give us the exact links to the legislation that proves your point. And, if what you say is true (and may well be true: we just can't trust your word here is the point), show us why that would be unconstitutional.
 
Bern, keep reading that website, son, but it is not going to tell you what you want it to tell you. You have fail in this thread.
 
Tech_Esq, your opinions cannot be trusted by informed individuals. So give us the exact links to the legislation that proves your point. And, if what you say is true (and may well be true: we just can't trust your word here is the point), show us why that would be unconstitutional.

Dumbass, I have been tolerant of you up to this point on this thread, but no more.

Your opinion of my opinion is of no more moment that a gnat's bowel moment and worth about as much. Although, I'd still rather have the gnat's bowel movement if given the choice.

You have never proved that you are worth the effort of doing any legal research to satisfy you and until you do, you'll get exactly NONE, from me.

You were one post away from finding your way to my ignore list, so be careful how you respond. It presently has exactly one person on there, TruthMatters. It took her two years to earn her way on to it, it looks like you are about to set a record. We shall see.
 
15th post
No, the person who posts the first OP (understand that can be either positive or negative: "I like coca cola," or "I don't like coca cola") has the burden of proof. Your comments above clearly reveal that you have no more than a 12th grade or 1st year college concept about intellectual inquiry and proof.

Hate to burst your bubble, weasel. But the above is simply your opinion. There is nothing in your made up rules that state this. Further it is not what you stated in the first place. This was your first rule.

Let's go over the rules of debate. If you make an affirmative claim, you have to support that assertion with facts, analysis, evidence, stats, something other than your claim. You have to do that before anyone has to make a counter argument matching your points and evidence.

So which will it be weasel? Either follow your own rule above. Or cop to changing them so you can ***** out again. Pick one.

I have supplied my evidence. Government isn't granted authority anywhere in the constitution to require private purchases of citizens. You can say that is an opinon all you want. That doesn't make it so. Now you must show me some portion of the consstitution that supports your opinion that they do have that authority. Hey just for shits a giggles cite article VI again, that was hilarious last time.
 
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No one cares about your ignore list, son. Either post your evidence, or understand your opinion is worthless in terms of fact. You don't like this? Move along, son, move along. I will not tolerate trash from the far, far right. It's folks like you that make the GOP stink like it does today. I could give a rat's fart about the worth of your opinion. Do you get that, cheese breath?
 
No one cares about your ignore list, son. Either post your evidence, or understand your opinion is worthless in terms of fact. You don't like this? Move along, son, move along. I will not tolerate trash from the far, far right. It's folks like you that make the GOP stink like it does today. I could give a rat's fart about the worth of your opinion. Do you get that, cheese breath?

Exactly what I thought. Another pathetic response. Well, at least I will not be subject to reading your blindingly stupid and insipid responses anymore. It's been such a relief with TM I'm sure it will be even more pleasurable to never see you again.
 
Liability, quit the nonsense. No one with a brain pays any serious attention to what you think or what you say. You are an oxygen thief is all.

Translation:

Everything of value sails miles over Jokey's pinhead at light-speed. He's lost.

Jokey wouldn't recognize a thought if he got smacked in the face with one.

By the way, the story that jokey is just here to troll seems perfectly credible. It is crystal clear that he has nothing else to say. He lacks the capacity for engaging a meaningful discussion. He really is just a plodding, uninteresting, dishonest, stupid troll.
 
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