LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread

[Comrade Ishmael]

We are all citizens of the world.

Nationalism is a disease.

And communism is a cancer that forces its followers to aspire to the lowest common denominator.

Perhaps you could explain how that works.

I'll explain to you why Nationalism is poison. You seperate people based on location, based on under which government they are subservient. The end result is the dehumanization of anyone not from your nation, from your ethnicity, from your race.

Why is being American a virtue? To simply be born within the confines of artificial borders? To be a slave to the corporate-ruling class? What honor is there in that which supercedes being Russian, or Chinese, or French?

What is the point of National segregation? Will it be any more productive than racial segregation?

 

[gekaap]

"Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.

..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.

There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..

Disturbingly egocentric. Because they didn't conform to European standards, they were lesser. Disturbing, and disgusting.

 

[30x90]

"Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.

..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.

There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..

Disturbingly egocentric. Because they didn't conform to European standards, they were lesser. Disturbing, and disgusting.

Civilization and technology rendered them obsolete. They didn't advance fast enough and were overtaken.
Again..It's how human beings (and nature) operate.

 

[waltky]

Granny says any dem terrorists come `round here...

... an' dey gonna get a Mossburg 12ga. load of rocksalt in their butt.

 

[Tank]

Obama is going to sue the security chief.

 

[BrianH]

It's true...And they're coming across these people by accident most of the time. They'll come across a group of 15 or 20 illegals that have two or three middle-eastern people mixed in.... Sometimes they'll get a tip and go round these terrorists up. It's getting really rough down there and people have no idea. I live in south Texas and even I didn't realize how bad it was a few hours away...

 

[FifthColumn]

[You say "Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations. Just hearsay about a statement supposedly made by a Mexican president. Ironically, the leaflet distributed by the Mexican governemnt strongly discourages Mexicans to cross the desert.

Then you say "Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow" but once again you are unable to present any international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has any duty to help America stem the flow of illegal Mexicans into America

.

Americans can TRUST MEXICO like they trusted the word of this guy:

 

[FifthColumn]

[You say "Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations.

Will THIS do or is a billboard to small for you to see?

 

[waltky]

Arizona gonna put a stop to it...

Arizona legislators consider birthright citizenship bill
February 7, 2011 -- The Arizona Senate Judiciary Committee began holding hearings Monday afternoon on proposals to end birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment for U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants.

Lawmakers in a total of 40 states are considering similar proposals "to correct the monumental misapplication of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution," according to the legislators' new group, State Legislators for Legal Immigration. The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was ratified in the wake of the Civil War, provides in part that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The provision has the effect of granting "birthright" citizenship to anyone born in the United States, even if both of the child's parents are in the country illegally.

The Arizona proposals, introduced by Republicans two weeks ago and quickly opposed by Democrats, are the latest measures following new Arizona laws that seek to crack down on illegal immigration but have landed up in court. Sponsors of this latest legislation have said they hope the bills, if one becomes law, also will provoke a lawsuit so that the U.S. Supreme Court can re-examine the meaning of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause. Mike Philipsen, spokesman for the state senate's Republican majority, which holds 21 of the chamber's 30 seats, said the judiciary committee is scheduled to hear two hours of testimony from supporters and opponents of two bills seeking to end birthright citizenship for babies born on U.S. soil to illegal immigrants.

Under the proposals, Arizona would create a special class of birth certificates for children who are born to parents who can't prove their citizenship. The committee is chaired by the bills' Senate sponsor, Ron Gould, said Philipsen. "These folks are essentially gaming the system to put themselves ahead of the line," Gould told CNN, referring to illegal immigrants giving birth to children in the United States as a way for their children to have citizenship.

A similar measure is sponsored in the House by Rep. John Kavanagh, whose chamber has yet to schedule a hearing, Philipsen said. "Obviously with this issue, there's going to be a lot of debate on it, there's going to be a lot of people speaking on it," Philipsen said of Monday's scheduled two-hour hearing. If approved, the legislation would apply only to children born after the law went into effect or after a ruling from the expected court action, Kavanagh said.

MORE

 

[LilOlLady]

DEPORT PREGNANT ILLEGAL ALIENS

Deport pregnant illegal liens would solve the automatic birthright citizenship for children born here to illegal aliens and go a long way in controlling illegal immigration. When they show up for prenatal care, deport them.

There is absolute no way we can control illegal immigration as long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens.

The 14th Amendment does not say “anyone born in the country is “automatically” an American citizen” but we keep hearing this statement from pro-illegal alien advocates. Just because it has been miss applied for decades do not mean it has to continue. “Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof” is in the amendment clause for a reason. Illegal aliens are not descendents of ex-slaves. Matter of fact, there is not longer a need for the 14th Amendment because there are no more ex-slaves.

Anchor babies are anchors for their illegal parents and that makes is virtually impossible to enforce our immigration laws and deport the parents and that is one of the reason there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country. As long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens we will never be able to control illegal immigration and secure our borders.
ICE is not going to rip a mother from it child and deport her. We must force them to self deport with their anchor babies by taking jobs away from them. But that will not work because they will just live off AFDC for their anchor babies until the child is 18 and then in a few years he or she will petition for their parents citizenship.

We cannot have Comprehensive Immigration and border security without first repealing the 14th Amendment which is an american tragedy.

 

[gekaap]

I'm afraid you are very wrong about the 14th amendment. It was passed on the heels of the Dred Scott case saying that there was no legal opportunity for black people to become citizens. The 14th amendment offered that opportunity.

Regardless of those immediate concerns, the amendment does not specify any class of people. It applies to all people. The Supreme Court has affirmed this fact.

That being said, I do agree that it would be great if we could deport pregnant illegal aliens. But getting to the point were we could regularly identify and deport such people would be very near an ideal situation (the only reason it would be less than ideal is the fact that a truly ideal situation would see no illegal immigrants at all).

The [theoretically] easiest thing to do would be to amend the constitution to require legal residence of parents for birthright citizenship.

 

[WorldWatcher]

DEPORT PREGNANT ILLEGAL ALIENS

Deport pregnant illegal liens would solve the automatic birthright citizenship for children born here to illegal aliens and go a long way in controlling illegal immigration. When they show up for prenatal care, deport them.

There is absolute no way we can control illegal immigration as long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens.

The 14th Amendment does not say “anyone born in the country is “automatically” an American citizen” but we keep hearing this statement from pro-illegal alien advocates. Just because it has been miss applied for decades do not mean it has to continue. “Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof” is in the amendment clause for a reason. Illegal aliens are not descendents of ex-slaves. Matter of fact, there is not longer a need for the 14th Amendment because there are no more ex-slaves.

Anchor babies are anchors for their illegal parents and that makes is virtually impossible to enforce our immigration laws and deport the parents and that is one of the reason there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country. As long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens we will never be able to control illegal immigration and secure our borders.
ICE is not going to rip a mother from it child and deport her. We must force them to self deport with their anchor babies by taking jobs away from them. But that will not work because they will just live off AFDC for their anchor babies until the child is 18 and then in a few years he or she will petition for their parents citizenship.

We cannot have Comprehensive Immigration and border security without first repealing the 14th Amendment which is an american tragedy.

1. I agree that Illegal Aliens should be a conduit for citizenship by squirting out a child on American soil since they broke the law even being here.

2. The 14th Amendment did not (and does not) apply to just ex-slaves. The intend of the 14th Amendment (according to the principle author John Bingham) was to make the Bill of Rights (at least the first 8) applicable to the states.



>>>>

 

[kwc57]

Gobstopper move?

 

[High_Gravity]

How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?

 

[Madeline]

How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?

Generally speaking, yes. Almost any child born here is a citizen.

I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask: why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?

 

[LilOlLady]

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868 as one of the Reconstruction Amendments.

Its Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship that overruled the decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which held that blacks could not be citizens of the United States.

Its Due Process Clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken to ensure fairness. This clause has been used to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive and procedural rights.

Its Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction. This clause later became the basis for Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Supreme Court decision which precipitated the dismantling of racial segregation in the United States.

The amendment also includes a number of clauses dealing with the Confederacy and its officials.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


BackgroundSection 1 formally defines citizenship and protects a person's civil and political rights from being abridged or denied by any state. This represented the Congress's overruling of the Dred Scott decision to the extent that decision held that black people were not, and could not become, citizens of the United States or enjoy any of the privileges and immunities of citizenship.[1] The Civil Rights Act of 1866 had already granted U.S. citizenship to all persons born in the United States, as long as those persons were not subject to a foreign power; the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment added this principle into the Constitution to prevent the Supreme Court from ruling the Civil Rights Act of 1866 to be unconstitutional for lack of congressional authority to enact such a law and to prevent a future Congress from altering it by a mere majority vote.
This section was also in response to the Black Codes which southern states had passed in the wake of the Thirteenth Amendment, which ended slavery in the United States.[2] Those laws attempted to return freed slaves to something like their former condition by, among other things, restricting their movement, forcing them to enter into year-long labor contracts, and by preventing them from suing or testifying in court.[3]

Finally, this section was in response to violence against black people within the southern states. A Joint Committee on Reconstruction found that only a Constitutional amendment could protect the rights and welfare of black people within those states.[4]

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[High_Gravity]

How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?

Generally speaking, yes. Almost any child born here is a citizen.

I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask: why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?

Because it doesn't work, Police used to pack up Hispanics and ship them back to Mexico in the 50s and 60s regardless of their status, legal or illegal. They just find their way back.

 

[gekaap]

How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?

This is just what I would go for:

*When two parents are temporary but legal residents any children born would not be citizens by birth. However an "upgrade" policy would apply; if the parents legally maintain residence for 10 years during the child's childhood, then they will earn citizenship with natural born recognition.

*When at least one person is a legal permanent resident or a citizen, then any child would be born a citizen.

*If only one parent is a legal temporary resident, the child would not be a citizen, automatic custody would befall the legal resident, and his/her legal status would be based on the continued legal status of the custodian parent.

 

[LilOlLady]

Original intent of the 14th Amendment


Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment.
Supreme Court decisions
The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby.

Over a century ago, the Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called "Slaughter-House cases" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 Elk v.Wilkins case12, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance."

The Court essentially stated that the status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction. In other words, they must be United States citizens.

Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that:

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.



The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution

 

[LilOlLady]

A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country. But then, a few years ago, no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either
Change U.S. law on anchor babies - Articles - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform


Countries that Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship
Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon, Canada, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Spain, United States, and Venezuela.

Countries that do NOT Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship Algeria, Australia, Belgium, Columbia, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Kuwait, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, United Kingdom, and Zaire.


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