Liberals Obliterated by Founding Fathers on Guns

[regent]

Some of those quotes there are bogus, just sews ya know.

False.

1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788
Samuel Adams, in "Phila. Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

Wonder if this quote would take legs:
"We the founers know that guns are going to change over the years, become more lethal and kill lots and lots of people including school children, but, we the founders, officially approve of the changes. And we also want people to know that the second amendment applies to the them new big babies like bazookas too. God bless the NRA."
The official founders and framers. 1790.

 

[Tech_Esq]

the scotus has already said gun laws are perfectly constitutional

They also said Corporations are People.

Does that mean you agree?

Romney said that; CU v. FEC said money = free speech.

The supreme court said that in the 1970s the last time Dems tried to limit free speech with a campaign finance law.

 

[paperview]

You claim the Thomas Paine quote is unsourced. False.

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
-- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center


.

WikiQuotes states it is unsourced. What you just posted was a link to a 2nd Amendment blog, front page with this:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
National Rifle Association

The actual quote is here: The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books

Page 56

Breeze it by

 

[Tech_Esq]

Some of those quotes there are bogus, just sews ya know.

False.

1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788
Samuel Adams, in "Phila. Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

Wonder if this quote would take legs:
"We the founers know that guns are going to change over the years, become more lethal and kill lots and lots of people including school children, but, we the founders, officially approve of the changes. And we also want people to know that the second amendment applies to the them new big babies like bazookas too. God bless the NRA."
The official founders and framers. 1790.

Yeah, you're probably right, the founders were all brain dead and they hadn't picked up on the idea of technology changing over time. despite living during the Enlightenment when EVERYTHING was changing at a rate never before seen.

Dolt.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

Some of those quotes there are bogus, just sews ya know.

False.

1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788
Samuel Adams, in "Phila. Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

Wonder if this quote would take legs:
"We the founers know that guns are going to change over the years, become more lethal and kill lots and lots of people including school children, but, we the founders, officially approve of the changes. And we also want people to know that the second amendment applies to the them new big babies like bazookas too. God bless the NRA."
The official founders and framers. 1790.

You don't understand the 2nd Amendment.

1. The founders had the best available guns. According to your premise, we should all get the best weapons.

2. A bazooka is not a firearm. Firearm: A small arms weapon, as a rifle or pistol, from which a projectile is fired by gunpowder. Firearm | Define Firearm at Dictionary.com

3. 2nd Amendment is there so that the citizens can have an equalizing force to balance the power between citizens and government. Bolt-actions and 6-round pistols are not enough.

4. 22 school children were stabbed in China the same day as Sandy Hook.


.

 

[paperview]

You claim the Thomas Paine quote is unsourced. False.

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
-- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center


.

WikiQuotes states it is unsourced. What you just posted was a link to a 2nd Amendment blog, front page with this:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
National Rifle Association

The actual quote is here: The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books

Page 56

Breeze it by

In case you missed it, Geo, Mr. LaPierre, et al, have changed the words "half the world" with "law abiding" and you took two sentences and smooshed them together.

If you want any cred quoting the Founders, at least get the quotes right.

 

[editec]

the scotus has already said gun laws are perfectly constitutional

They also said Corporations are People.

Does that mean you agree?

Would you mind quoting the "Corporations are People" Supreme Court decision and show us exactly where they said that?

Thanks.

Read 'em and weap, citizen.

Since at least Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward – 17 U.S. 518 (1819), the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized corporations as having the same rights as natural persons to contract and to enforce contracts. In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad - 118 U.S. 394 (1886), the reporter noted in the headnote to the opinion that the Chief Justice began oral argument by stating, "The court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does."[1] While the headnote is not part of the Court's opinion and thus not precedent, two years later, in Pembina Consolidated Silver Mining Co. v. Pennsylvania - 125 U.S. 181 (1888), the Court clearly affirmed the doctrine, holding, "Under the designation of 'person' there is no doubt that a private corporation is included [in the Fourteenth Amendment]. Such corporations are merely associations of individuals united for a special purpose and permitted to do business under a particular name and have a succession of members without dissolution." [2] This doctrine has been reaffirmed by the Court many times since.

 

[paperview]

At least with your gun blog quote, you kept the ellipses. You didn't even do that in your OP.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

You claim the Thomas Paine quote is unsourced. False.

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
-- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center


.

WikiQuotes states it is unsourced. What you just posted was a link to a 2nd Amendment blog, front page with this:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
National Rifle Association

The actual quote is here: The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books

Page 56

Breeze it by

Thanks. Even more juicy quotes from Thomas Paine. What I saw was the same quote but in Old English.

 

[paperview]

22 school children were stabbed in China the same day as Sandy Hook.

How many died?

 

[paperview]

You claim the Thomas Paine quote is unsourced. False.

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
-- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center


.

WikiQuotes states it is unsourced. What you just posted was a link to a 2nd Amendment blog, front page with this:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
National Rifle Association

The actual quote is here: The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books

Page 56

Breeze it by

Thanks. Even more juicy quotes from Thomas Paine. What I saw was the same quote but in Old English.

What you saw was also the actual quote, which was NOT what you posted.

You can't just take the words "half the world" and turn it into "law abiding" and slice it up without the ellipses.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

I stand by all the quotes in the OP. Here's why:

- The George Washington quote was translated from Old English. Every part of it meant the same except the "protect from your own government."

- The Thomas Jefferson quote was essentially found word for word in his book. The contention is that he was quoting someone else. Regardless, he put those words in the book with agreement. He didn't include those words to refute them.

- The Thomas Paine quote was again translated from Old English, the meaning doesn't change.

- The rest of the quotes remain legitimate.


The Liberals think that the quotes take on a whole new meaning as if the Founders were anti-gun. Wrong. No quotes meaning was misconstrued, rather rewritten to be more easily understood.

Can the Liberals refute the overall message of the Founders? No. Can they nitpick semantics and ignore pro-gun arguments from the Enlightenment Era? Yes.

.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

WikiQuotes states it is unsourced. What you just posted was a link to a 2nd Amendment blog, front page with this:

Wayne LaPierre
Executive Vice President
National Rifle Association

The actual quote is here: The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books

Page 56

Breeze it by

Thanks. Even more juicy quotes from Thomas Paine. What I saw was the same quote but in Old English.

What you saw was also the actual quote, which was NOT what you posted.

You can't just take the words "half the world" and turn it into "law abiding" and slice it up without the ellipses.

Removal of the ellipses didn't change the meaning. There is a purpose behind changing the words in that circumstance and it was to provide context while being concise.

I will grant you that those disseminating the quotes should be better at including sources and providing disclaimers that it's paraphrased.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Unfortunately, I found out my GW quote in my sig was a fake. But, I found another by Webster that I like just fine.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.

Noah Webster October, 1787

And this one:

To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always posses arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle.

Melancton Smith, Additional Letters From The Federal Farmer, 1788.

 

[paperview]

I stand by all the quotes in the OP. Here's why:

- The George Washington quote was translated from Old English. Every part of it meant the same except the "protect from your own government."

- The Thomas Jefferson quote was essentially found word for word in his book. The contention is that he was quoting someone else. Regardless, he put those words in the book with agreement. He didn't include those words to refute them.

- The Thomas Paine quote was again translated from Old English, the meaning doesn't change.

- The rest of the quotes remain legitimate.


The Liberals think that the quotes take on a whole new meaning as if the Founders were anti-gun. Wrong. No quotes meaning was misconstrued, rather rewritten to be more easily understood.

Can the Liberals refute the overall message of the Founders? No. Can they nitpick semantics and ignore pro-gun arguments from the Enlightenment Era? Yes.

.

What the fcuk? Old English translations???

The words of Washington's first address do not need to be translated - they are right there in black and white and they are NOT anywhere near what your quote says.

Jefferson never said the words attributed to him

and Paine's words were changed.

You don't DO THAT.

and you saying "There is a purpose behind changing the words..." is bullcrap on ice.

You don't misquote. Period. End. Fin.

 

[paperview]

There are plenty of real, good quotes out there to use.

When one resorts to making up quotes, one shows weakness of argument.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

I stand by all the quotes in the OP. Here's why:

- The George Washington quote was translated from Old English. Every part of it meant the same except the "protect from your own government."

- The Thomas Jefferson quote was essentially found word for word in his book. The contention is that he was quoting someone else. Regardless, he put those words in the book with agreement. He didn't include those words to refute them.

- The Thomas Paine quote was again translated from Old English, the meaning doesn't change.

- The rest of the quotes remain legitimate.


The Liberals think that the quotes take on a whole new meaning as if the Founders were anti-gun. Wrong. No quotes meaning was misconstrued, rather rewritten to be more easily understood.

Can the Liberals refute the overall message of the Founders? No. Can they nitpick semantics and ignore pro-gun arguments from the Enlightenment Era? Yes.

.

What the fcuk? Old English translations???

The words of Washington's first address do not need to be translated - they are right there in black and white and they are NOT anywhere near what your quote says.

Jefferson never said the words attributed to him

and Paine's words were changed.

You don't DO THAT.

and you saying "There is a purpose behind changing the words..." is bullcrap on ice.

You don't misquote. Period. End. Fin.

We can debate the ethics of paraphrasing all day, we get it, you say it's bad.

Can you refute the Founding Fathers or not?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Why address the issue, deflecting is so much easier.

Paperweight, you destroyed whatever progress you thought you were making with your admission against interest in your last post. So you admit that the founders we're in favor of arming the citizenry. Thanks, Geo wins.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.

Tench Coxe, Federal Gazette, June 18,1789, A friend of James Madison, writing in support of the Madison's first draft of the Bill of Rights.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

"The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
-- Thomas Paine

The Writings of Thomas Paine - Thomas Paine - Google Books


Look how anti-gun Thomas Paine was. That settles it, I'm turning my guns in!


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