Liberal Business owners - a true story of what I get to deal with right now

[saveliberty]

Real or imagined, Blue gave the correct options. Grocery stores employ a large number of people. Expanding to a second location would be exactly the same scenario. If you are paid to consult, you need to show all the possibilities. Funny the left has no understanding of why the jobs market hasn't rebounded from all the government "help".

 

[rightwinger]

Since we are making up stories....

I work for a conservative business owner

I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs

I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM

I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it

He replied....LET THEM DIE

The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.

Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a **** about their employees....something that is never proven.....

I don't think my employer should be making healthcare decisions for me. It is not in his best interests. The obvious solution would be a national healthcare system with NO insurance companies as middle men
Since that was deemed socialism from the right, the next obvious solution is for the government to set up insurance pools so that people could qualify for group rates.
That was derided as a government takeover of healthcare. The only remaining solution is to maintain what we have now with employers providing health insurance
It sucks, but that is what we ended up with

 

[Seawytch]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

I would tell them that the Affordable Care Act Helps Small Businesses.

How many of these "struggling small and mid size businesses" employ 50 or more people? If you DO employee 50 or more people, why aren't you already providing health care?

 

[saveliberty]

The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.

I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.

Someone else will fill the void.

You aren't paying attention at all, which is a big part of Blue's point. You could hire two full time and many part time. Despite your revelation, you have obviously never hired new employees. First there is the problem of finding time to interview 2-400 applicants (that is how many you'll need to find 40 or so decent ones). Then you have to train them. Very time consuming process. Then attrition sets in as some realize this is work and they leave or find full time work else where. Now its back to hiring and training and hiring and training...

Oh, and every time you do this with a person, it requires government reporting and investigating the employees immigration status. Hopefully you do some type of background check beyond that.

 

[TNHarley]

Since we are making up stories....

I work for a conservative business owner

I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs

I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM

I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it

He replied....LET THEM DIE

You sure? That sounds like liberal response from a mile away
And we know that is alie. Your a liberal, you dont work lol

 

[jillian]

So I have to share this because it really pisses me off. So I manage a business for two owners who are absolutely fabulous people...I mean wonderful people and I love them to death...but they are flaming liberals and can't see their hand two inches past their nose. So prior to the election they tasked me with setting up a plan fo expansion into a second location. Now I know the books and so the other day we meet and ask my plan and my response was: "I don't think we can expand now"

"Why not?" they asked confused.

"Well," I said. "Right now our company has 47 employees. Expanding to a second locaton will put us over the 50 employee limit on Obamacare and we will have to pay health benefits for every one of our employees or pay the fine to avoid it. After looking at the books, that will bankrupt us." I explained.

"But our business is ready to take the next step." they said to me.

"Yes it is," I responded "but we can't afford to anymore. The good old days of expanding according to sales and demand are over." I explained. "That's not the way it works anymore."

"Well why not?" they asked sincerely.

"Well because of the Affordable Health Care Act" I said. I then explained all the implications and do you know what their response was? These flaming liberals who voted for Obama and pounded the "health care is a human right" angle? Know what they said to me? They said "Well we have to find a loophole to get out of this. We can't afford that. it will end our business."

I was tempted at that point to reach across the table and strangle them both screaming "this is what you voted for mother fuckers!!!!" but I kept my cool. I said slowly "the business landscape has changed. Now here are our options.....#1 cut every employee to below 30 hours a week. If they go over 30 hours we fire them on the spot."

"Well how will they support their families on only 30 hours a week?" they asked.

"If they go over 30 hours after the expansion," I explained "then you will support their families directly from your own pocket because the business cannot sustain the expense incurred by Obamacare." I got incredulous at this point. "Jesus ******* Christ have you not been paying attention?" I was met with silence.

"Now the other option is to expand to the new location but to sub-contract labor to a different entity. Technically, you will have no new employees and be under the 50 cap. On the other hand you have to entrust your labor to a totally different business...and don't even think about creating a dummy corporation yourself to hire those workers under unless you want a nice battle with the IRS for fraud. It will have to be a completely unrelated business with totally unrelated ownership."

So after a while of them thinking they looked at me and asked.

"So what you are saying is that we can't expand our business unless we slash the hours of our employees who need every hour they can get, sub-contract out our labor an allow an independent business to control our labor, or just say **** it and not expand at all?"

i said "Yep"

"THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT" they screamed

"That's what you voted for" I said calmly risking my job.

I didn't get fired. The expansion will not take place. 45 jobs set and ready just got lost thanks to Obamacare.

sorry, blue.. no one cuts jobs they need to meet demand because of a health care plan.

perhaps you should support a single-payor system?

 

[saveliberty]

Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?

What would you tell them?

.

I would tell them that the Affordable Care Act Helps Small Businesses.

How many of these "struggling small and mid size businesses" employ 50 or more people? If you DO employee 50 or more people, why aren't you already providing health care?

51 people don't have a problem with it, why do you?

 

[saveliberty]

sorry, blue.. no one cuts jobs they need to meet demand because of a health care plan.

perhaps you should support a single-payor system?

This wasn't a job cut, it was no expansion. Pay attention.

Yes, because money for a single-payor system is funded by unicorns.

 

[Jarhead]

Since we are making up stories....

I work for a conservative business owner

I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs

I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM

I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it

He replied....LET THEM DIE

The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.

Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a **** about their employees....something that is never proven.....

I don't think my employer should be making healthcare decisions for me. It is not in his best interests. The obvious solution would be a national healthcare system with NO insurance companies as middle men
Since that was deemed socialism from the right, the next obvious solution is for the government to set up insurance pools so that people could qualify for group rates.
That was derided as a government takeover of healthcare. The only remaining solution is to maintain what we have now with employers providing health insurance
It sucks, but that is what we ended up with

Before the healthcare debate, you never HAD to have your employer making healthcare decisions for you. You did nto have to accept the plan that was in place. You could have gone out on your own tpo find insurance.

Whereas the insurance industry reuqired some reform thanks to the greed of the people, it did not need an overhaul.

The greed of the people you ponder? What do I mean by that?

Are you aware of WHY the pre-existing condition clauses were instituted into healthcare?

Becuase people gamed the game. They opted to NOT purchase health insurance UNTIL THEY NEEDED IT....why waste money on something unless I need it was the attitude of people....

And lets be real....that was a losing proposition for ANY type of insurance. Dental insurance has a fix to that problem.....you must wait 6 months before anything but maintenance is covered....that stopped people who crack a tooth from buying insuracne the day the tooth cracks. Hurricane insurance is another.....you must wait 30 days before it goes into affect...that way people would not purchase hiurricane insurance when they see one coming....

Dont blame your employer for making healthcare decisions for you. Blame congress and the president. You were free to do what you wished as it pertained to insurance...now you must do what the government tells you.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Since we are making up stories....

I work for a conservative business owner

I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs

I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM

I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it

He replied....LET THEM DIE

The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.

Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a **** about their employees....something that is never proven.....

Are you receiving healthcare on the public dole?

 

[WillowTree]

The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.

I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.

Someone else will fill the void.

you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.

You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.

Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.

Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated

No they aren't. They're there to keep health insurance, they wish to god they could be anyplace but at work.

 

[Dick Tuck]

you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.

You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.

Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.

Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated

An employee dedicated to his/her paycheck and/or health benefits is by no means the same as an employee dedicated to the success of the business.

Thank you for making such a valid point...that is EXACTLY where there is a disconnect.

You're saying that you'd be dedicated to growing a business that treats you like a piece of shit? I bet you're stupid enought to believe that if we give the rich more, they'll work harder, and if we give the poor less they'll work harder.

 

[Jarhead]

So I have to share this because it really pisses me off. So I manage a business for two owners who are absolutely fabulous people...I mean wonderful people and I love them to death...but they are flaming liberals and can't see their hand two inches past their nose. So prior to the election they tasked me with setting up a plan fo expansion into a second location. Now I know the books and so the other day we meet and ask my plan and my response was: "I don't think we can expand now"

"Why not?" they asked confused.

"Well," I said. "Right now our company has 47 employees. Expanding to a second locaton will put us over the 50 employee limit on Obamacare and we will have to pay health benefits for every one of our employees or pay the fine to avoid it. After looking at the books, that will bankrupt us." I explained.

"But our business is ready to take the next step." they said to me.

"Yes it is," I responded "but we can't afford to anymore. The good old days of expanding according to sales and demand are over." I explained. "That's not the way it works anymore."

"Well why not?" they asked sincerely.

"Well because of the Affordable Health Care Act" I said. I then explained all the implications and do you know what their response was? These flaming liberals who voted for Obama and pounded the "health care is a human right" angle? Know what they said to me? They said "Well we have to find a loophole to get out of this. We can't afford that. it will end our business."

I was tempted at that point to reach across the table and strangle them both screaming "this is what you voted for mother fuckers!!!!" but I kept my cool. I said slowly "the business landscape has changed. Now here are our options.....#1 cut every employee to below 30 hours a week. If they go over 30 hours we fire them on the spot."

"Well how will they support their families on only 30 hours a week?" they asked.

"If they go over 30 hours after the expansion," I explained "then you will support their families directly from your own pocket because the business cannot sustain the expense incurred by Obamacare." I got incredulous at this point. "Jesus ******* Christ have you not been paying attention?" I was met with silence.

"Now the other option is to expand to the new location but to sub-contract labor to a different entity. Technically, you will have no new employees and be under the 50 cap. On the other hand you have to entrust your labor to a totally different business...and don't even think about creating a dummy corporation yourself to hire those workers under unless you want a nice battle with the IRS for fraud. It will have to be a completely unrelated business with totally unrelated ownership."

So after a while of them thinking they looked at me and asked.

"So what you are saying is that we can't expand our business unless we slash the hours of our employees who need every hour they can get, sub-contract out our labor an allow an independent business to control our labor, or just say **** it and not expand at all?"

i said "Yep"

"THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT" they screamed

"That's what you voted for" I said calmly risking my job.

I didn't get fired. The expansion will not take place. 45 jobs set and ready just got lost thanks to Obamacare.

sorry, blue.. no one cuts jobs they need to meet demand because of a health care plan.

perhaps you should support a single-payor system?

Putting aside the fact that this was a discussion of EXPANSION.....

If keeping those jobs means an extra X in net revenue.....but laying off those jobs results in x+1 net revenue....then those jobs will go.

Business planning isnt about "gross revenue"....it is about "net revenue" anbd "net margin".

Opening up a second venue may result in 50K in income.....but if it costs 51K to run it, there is good reason not to puruse it.

 

[Papageorgio]

and btw, you deserve to be fired for 1) trash talking people that hired you in good faith and 2) giving bad advice to your clients to further your political agenda.

If this story is even true.

You should let them read your posts here, especially your polling predictions, and let them evaluate your mental capabilities.

You think people should be hired and fired based on posts on a message board?

I think results is a better way, if someone has gotten you to the point of expansion, then they are doing something right.

Do you own or manage a business?

 

[Jarhead]

Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated

An employee dedicated to his/her paycheck and/or health benefits is by no means the same as an employee dedicated to the success of the business.

Thank you for making such a valid point...that is EXACTLY where there is a disconnect.

You're saying that you'd be dedicated to growing a business that treats you like a piece of shit? I bet you're stupid enought to believe that if we give the rich more, they'll work harder, and if we give the poor less they'll work harder.

what a childish remark...I expect no less from you.

Exactly where did I say that the employees are treated like a piece of shit?

You assume all business owners do that. Seeing as you beleive that, then I am convinced you were never a business owner.....so you are most definitely not quialified to engage in this debate.

 

[Dick Tuck]

you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.

You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.

Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.

Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated

No they aren't. They're there to keep health insurance, they wish to god they could be anyplace but at work.

Show some respect, and capitalize "god".

 

[Ravi]

The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.

I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.

Someone else will fill the void.

you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.

You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.

Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.

You can move your current full timers around to cover both places and pay the part timers a living wage as many people would prefer to work part time if they were treated and paid well. People like you should keep quiet when adults are talking.

 

[saveliberty]

You're saying that you'd be dedicated to growing a business that treats you like a piece of shit? I bet you're stupid enought to believe that if we give the rich more, they'll work harder, and if we give the poor less they'll work harder.

Suppose it never occurred to you that one spouse can work in a place that has no health insurance, but a flexible work schedule, while the other has family health coverage?

 

[Cowman]

"THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT" they screamed

This OP is total bullshit.

It reeks of absolute bullshit in the way you painstakingly pieced it together and tried to make it into a story.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

and btw, you deserve to be fired for 1) trash talking people that hired you in good faith and 2) giving bad advice to your clients to further your political agenda.

If this story is even true.

You should let them read your posts here, especially your polling predictions, and let them evaluate your mental capabilities.

You think people should be hired and fired based on posts on a message board?

I think results is a better way, if someone has gotten you to the point of expansion, then they are doing something right.

Do you own or manage a business?

LOLz

own or manage a business

LOLz

Yeah, all the Progs here manage a business called "Mo' Free stuff"