Libby gets 2 and a half years.

[Bullypulpit]

You simply ignore the fact he DID NOT out Plume. If he had he would have been charged with it. You have made a claim that not only did he out her but that he STATED she was a covert agent when he did it. Either prove the claim or admit you are wrong. You INSIST that there are numerous witnesses to testify he outed her AS a covert agent. Answer the question, if he did and all these witnesses are about, WHY wasn't he charged with that?

Remind me again how Sandy Burger got no jail time and a paltry 50k fine for STEALING classified documents but Libby got 30 months and 250k fine and this is fair? Burger might have stolen documents that were NOT recorded in the system and were source documents with NO copies.

No one even cares what he took or why. Meanwhile Libby gets hounded for 3 years illegally by a prosecutor that couldn't even charge him with the crime the investigation was supposed to be about.

And you insist no evidence is proof Vice President Cheney is a traitor.

Explain again how even IF Libby lied that would prevent HIM from being charged with outing Plume. Read the law, you can NOT conduct an investigation with the intent to trap someone with Perjury charges. Which is exactly what this prosecutor did. No perjury, NO obstruction. Libby was a victim of a Prosecutor that couldn't accept he had no case. He charged him for the sole purpose of scaring him into testifying against someone else.

Explain again how one obstructs an investigation into outing a CIA operative and NEVER gets charged with actually outing her. In fact the person that did it was already known and had NOTHING to do with Libby or the Vice President. Did Libby cover for Armitage? Libby committed no crime except not being able to remember exactly what he said over 3 years. Hell he should have done the Clinton dance and just answered every question with " I do not recall" He tries to answer and is set up for it.

And, <b>YET AGAIN</b>, he wasn't charged with outing Valerie Plame. Libby was charged, tried and convicted for obstructing, deliberately, the investigation into just who did out her. An investigation requested, not by some left-wing looney, but by the CIA.

Your insistence on claiming parity with the Whitewater investigations and that loser, Sandy Berger, doesn't hold water. Libby obstructed the investigation into the leaking of a CIA assets identity during what is supposedly a time of war. Last I heard, that was treason.

 

[Diuretic]

It's not hard to tell the truth, whether it be to another person in an ordinary social situation or to a grand jury or in court. All you have to do is remember what happened and say what you recollect. Telling the truth will not see you indicted for perjury and imprisoned if you are convicted. Pretty straightforward I think.

 

[red states rule]

Obstructing Justice is a pretty serious crime.

I can't believe you guys are disparaging Patrick fitzgerald the way you are with absolutely NO GROUNDS to do such. You eat your own kin. Man, you guys are scum....equal to those that outed Plame, you will do ANYTHING, to cover your own asses....Even if it means ruining another person's career and life when they have done nothing but served this country of ours well.. Bravo!

What happened to Ms Nice?

30 Months for a crime that didn't even happen - only libs would be happy over that

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's not hard to tell the truth, whether it be to another person in an ordinary social situation or to a grand jury or in court. All you have to do is remember what happened and say what you recollect. Telling the truth will not see you indicted for perjury and imprisoned if you are convicted. Pretty straightforward I think.

You obviously haven't a clue how Lawyers work. Or your prsenting a red herring.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And, <b>YET AGAIN</b>, he wasn't charged with outing Valerie Plame. Libby was charged, tried and convicted for obstructing, deliberately, the investigation into just who did out her. An investigation requested, not by some left-wing looney, but by the CIA.

Your insistence on claiming parity with the Whitewater investigations and that loser, Sandy Berger, doesn't hold water. Libby obstructed the investigation into the leaking of a CIA assets identity during what is supposedly a time of war. Last I heard, that was treason.

AND WHY wasn't he? The entire investigation was about the OUTING of Plume. Yet the ONLY person tried was NOT charged with that "crime" Read the words of the prosecutor. He decided what was true and went about , without evidence, convincing a Jury of his version of events. HE admits his entire purpose was to "catch" someone else. The Prosecutor makes statements NOT supported by the facts. He purposefully avoided having a court rule on the LEGAL status of Plume.

 

[Care4all]

What happened to Ms Nice?

30 Months for a crime that didn't even happen - only libs would be happy over that

(Lack of sleep, I was up half the night last night! )

RSR, the 30 months is for the 4-5 FELONIES that he committed, not for the crime that was being investigated.

YOur side has repeatedly stated that Libby was not charged with the outing, and he wasn't charged with the outing, he was charged for lying to the grand jury and FBI investigators investigating a possible crime, and for obstructing justice, through his lies.

Personally, I believe, from reading all of the testimony and reviewing the evidence that was presented in the trial from both sides, that Scooter Libby took "the Fall" and Rove and Armitage got off for actually leaking to Novak.

If you read the trial transcripts, Fitgerald on more than one occaision, pointed to the Veep as being the person behind all of this, including hand writen notes of the veep mentioning libby should not take the fall for some other whitehouse figure like (rove).

I feel sorry for Libby personally, and I wish things did not turn out the way they did, but Libby made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it. (He chose to lie, to protect the veep initially, I guess?)

But if this classified document was really legally declassified by the veep as has been implied, then I just don't understand why he had to make up storeis regarding how he found out about valerie Plame, why he couldn't just have told the grand jury that he learned about her a month earlier than the outing from a document the Veep gave him and discussed with him, which came out in the trial?

Libby also, PRIOR to the Novak outing, leaked Valerie Plame's name to Judith Miller, so all of them, Armitage, Rove and Libby let her name "slip" to the Press. Judith Miller never reported on it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Waiting for that retraction.... Or an explanation.

 

[Care4all]

Who here thinks OJ Simpson killed his wife?

Remind me again of the number of wrongly convicted people exonerated every year and then continue to insist YOUR right AND not because of politics and everyone that disagrees with you is wrong and BECAUSE of politics.

As to Clinton, simple question, DID he lie to a Judge under Oath? Did McDougal go to prison after being given immunity to testify in the matters about the Clintons rather than testify?

Yes, Clinton lied under oath, yes mcdougal went to jail.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes, Clinton lied under oath, yes mcdougal went to jail.

And of course you are JUST outraged and saddened that McDougal obstructed justice in the case of the Clintons? Further, since you keep claiming that Libby did what he was convicted of for the express purpose of protecting the Vice President, am I safe to assume you also believe McDougal did what she did to protect the Clintons?

 

[Care4all]

And of course you are JUST outraged and saddened that McDougal obstructed justice in the case of the Clintons? Further, since you keep claiming that Libby did what he was convicted of for the express purpose of protecting the Vice President, am I safe to assume you also believe McDougal did what she did to protect the Clintons?

yes, for whatever reasons she had, she did such, ultimately to protect the President.

 

[TheStripey1]

Remind me again? Which one of those charges has anything to do with "outing" Plume? Your buddies Care and Truthmatters are insisting not only did he out her, he specifically outed her covert status. Also show me where Cheney or Rove have been charged with anything related to Plume? Another claim by these two individuals is that Cheney Ordered it and the conviction of Libby proves it.

Using the logic and criteria supplied by Care I am happy to announce President Clinton and His wife Hillary are guilty of every charge ever made against them because Mc Dougal went to jail rather then testify.

I always read from the beginning of the thread, commenting on the posts I feel need commenting upon... therefore there will be a number of my posts in a row...

Is it ok with you when goverment officials lie under oath? Or only when they are republican?

 

[TheStripey1]

Ahh so your claim is if someone that works for you breaks the law and there is ZERO evidence to tie you to the "crime" your still guilty? It does NOT work like that and either you know it or need to take a class on our legal system and our Government.

Thanks for admitting it was a political trial designed from start to finish to "catch" someone else.

why do you defend liars?

 

[TheStripey1]

Libby, as a result of his perjury and misleading statements to FBI agents, made it impossible to make a determination as to the nature of the outing of Ms. Plame and the existence of a conspiracy to do so. 'Scooter', in short, fell on his sword for this administration.

and according to the republican base, should get off scot free for doing so... so much for the law and order party who are saying...

we are a nation of laws... you have to obey them but we don't.

 

[TheStripey1]

And MC Dougal's refusal to testify made it impossible to make a determination as to the crimes the Clinton's did or did not commit. I submit that since she had immunity to testify her stance was much more apparently damaging.

she went to jail... did you cry a river when she was sentenced, too? or did you celebrate?


Link

 

[TheStripey1]

Cannot the same thing be said of GWB and Cheney in this case? And I can see several people here for whom that thought NEVER crossed their minds.

if they have nothing to hide, why do they keep hiding everything they do? Do you think it is ok for government officials to lie under oath? Or only when they are republicans?

 

[TheStripey1]

He shouldn't have to be pardoned, and that isn't the point. I think the chief investigator in these proceedings should be the subject of an investigation himself. This whole fiasco has been a joke from Day One.

He LIED to a grand jury and to FBI investigators... do you really think that that is ok?

fer gawd's sake, why?

 

[TheStripey1]

It is AGAINST the law to purposefully try to get someone on perjury. I believe that the ENTIRE intent of this Prosecutor was JUST that, he wanted leverage on Libby to scare him into implicating someone else.

link?

 

[TheStripey1]

You simply ignore the fact he DID NOT out Plume. If he had he would have been charged with it. You have made a claim that not only did he out her but that he STATED she was a covert agent when he did it. Either prove the claim or admit you are wrong. You INSIST that there are numerous witnesses to testify he outed her AS a covert agent. Answer the question, if he did and all these witnesses are about, WHY wasn't he charged with that?

Remind me again how Sandy Burger got no jail time and a paltry 50k fine for STEALING classified documents but Libby got 30 months and 250k fine and this is fair? Burger might have stolen documents that were NOT recorded in the system and were source documents with NO copies.

No one even cares what he took or why. Meanwhile Libby gets hounded for 3 years illegally by a prosecutor that couldn't even charge him with the crime the investigation was supposed to be about.

And you insist no evidence is proof Vice President Cheney is a traitor.

Explain again how even IF Libby lied that would prevent HIM from being charged with outing Plume. Read the law, you can NOT conduct an investigation with the intent to trap someone with Perjury charges. Which is exactly what this prosecutor did. No perjury, NO obstruction. Libby was a victim of a Prosecutor that couldn't accept he had no case. He charged him for the sole purpose of scaring him into testifying against someone else.

Explain again how one obstructs an investigation into outing a CIA operative and NEVER gets charged with actually outing her. In fact the person that did it was already known and had NOTHING to do with Libby or the Vice President. Did Libby cover for Armitage? Libby committed no crime except not being able to remember exactly what he said over 3 years. Hell he should have done the Clinton dance and just answered every question with " I do not recall" He tries to answer and is set up for it.

Libby LIED to FBI investigators... that is against the law... and he was convicted of doing it. Libby lied under oath to a grand jury... that is ALSO against the law... and he was convicted of doing it. why do you continue to defend a proven liar? Do you think that those that lie are honorable men or women and worthy of defense? why?

Pffft... republicans call themselves the party of law and order... but if these republicans are typical of their party, it is just another bumper sticker slogan, right guys?

re: berger... who's party is holding up prosecution of him? the republicans or the democrats?

 

[TheStripey1]

The facts speak for themselves. 'Scooter' was convicted, the Clintons were not. And let us not forget that it was a Bush appointed US attorney who prosecuted Libby. It was Bush appointed judge who presided over the case. It was a defense selected jury that convicted him.

Given the squeals (like stuck pigs)of outraged indignation from the right-wing pundits, and other administration boot-lickers, across the country for Bush to pardon 'Scooter', one can only wonder what has become of their love of law-and-order. It would seem that the rule of law is pertinent and applicable only to someone other than themselves or a member of the Bush administration.

It was, however amusing to watch these heretofore unflinching supporters of Bush throw him under the bus for not pardoning Libby immediately and forthwith. Ho...hum...just another episode of "Republicans Eating Their Own".

It's quite simple, Bully... their slogan... law and order... is just another bumper sticker to them... it doesn't actually MEAN anything.

 

[TheStripey1]

1) Who here thinks OJ Simpson killed his wife?

2) Remind me again of the number of wrongly convicted people exonerated every year and then continue to insist YOUR right AND not because of politics and everyone that disagrees with you is wrong and BECAUSE of politics.

3) As to Clinton, simple question, DID he lie to a Judge under Oath? Did McDougal go to prison after being given immunity to testify in the matters about the Clintons rather than testify?

1) And this pertains to Libby lying under oath and to investigators, how?

2) see 1

3) ancient history... let's see a link. And yes, despite your faulty memory, McDougal DID go to prison...

Susan McDougal

...snip

She was convicted on May 28, 1996, and spent time in prison for four counts of fraud and conspiracy relating to the Whitewater scandal. She was later charged with (and acquitted of) embezzlement against noted conductor Zubin Mehta.

She also spent 18 months in prison including 7 weeks in solitary confinement for civil contempt of court. U.S. District Court Judge Susan Webber Wright sentenced her after McDougal refused to answer three questions from Whitewater prosecutors before the grand jury empaneled by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr to investigate the Whitewater deals.

...snip