Zone1 Let's Talk About "Merit"
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GPA’s are a better predictor of success than standardized tests, around which an entire highly lucrative industry has been built.
- Mar 11, 2015
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Asians are included in Affirmative Action.
- Mar 11, 2015
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Lol! The acquisition of money has not happened colorblind.Not talking for black people. Money talks and is color blind.
They would still have gone to college.
A high grade point average simply means that one is more intelligent than most of the people on one's school. A high grade point average at a black majority public school means much less than a high grade point average at a white Gentile school that has large minorities of Jews and Orientals.
- Mar 11, 2015
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Let me post this again.
Selective Bias: Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions evaluates the common arguments made by affirmative action critics and Students for Fair Admissions, which is suing Harvard University and has lawsuits pending against the University of North Carolina and the University of Texas at Austin over their admissions practices. The report finds no strong evidence of discrimination against Asian American applicants in admissions to highly selective colleges.
Critics claim that if colleges considered only academic merit, Asian American applicants would gain a greater number of seats. SFFA and other affirmative action critics often base their allegations on three factors:
The enrollment share of Asian American and Pacific Islander students at Harvard and at the 90 other most selective colleges has kept pace with their growing share of the four-year college-going population. In fact, the Asian American and Pacific Islander share of enrollments at the most selective colleges grew by 4 percentage points even while their enrollment share at all four-year colleges grew by just 2 percentage points between 1999 and 2018.
Among students who scored 1300 or above on the SAT, 65% of Asian American students applied to one of the most selective colleges in the country, compared to 50% of non–Asian American students. And among students who scored below 1300, 12% of Asian American students took a chance and applied to one of the most selective colleges, compared to only 5% of non–Asian American students. Since more Asian American students apply to selective colleges, they are more likely to be denied a seat, which is not evidence of bias.
(So Asians are applying to elite colleges with scores that would not qualify them at double the rate of other races and white racists are claiming that Asians are being cheated)
So it appears that according to this study, Asians have received the most "preferences".
cew.georgetown.edu
Selective Bias
Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions
Summary
Selective Bias: Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions evaluates the common arguments made by affirmative action critics and Students for Fair Admissions, which is suing Harvard University and has lawsuits pending against the University of North Carolina and the University of Texas at Austin over their admissions practices. The report finds no strong evidence of discrimination against Asian American applicants in admissions to highly selective colleges.
Critics claim that if colleges considered only academic merit, Asian American applicants would gain a greater number of seats. SFFA and other affirmative action critics often base their allegations on three factors:
- stagnant enrollment shares for Asian American students
- relatively low acceptance rates of Asian American applicants
- differences in SAT scores between Asian American and non–Asian American students at the most selective colleges.
The Asian American Enrollment Share at the Most Selective Colleges Has Remained Stable Over the Past Decade
The enrollment share of Asian American and Pacific Islander students at Harvard and at the 90 other most selective colleges has kept pace with their growing share of the four-year college-going population. In fact, the Asian American and Pacific Islander share of enrollments at the most selective colleges grew by 4 percentage points even while their enrollment share at all four-year colleges grew by just 2 percentage points between 1999 and 2018.
Asian American Students are More Likely to Apply to Highly Selective Colleges Regardless of Test Scores
Among students who scored 1300 or above on the SAT, 65% of Asian American students applied to one of the most selective colleges in the country, compared to 50% of non–Asian American students. And among students who scored below 1300, 12% of Asian American students took a chance and applied to one of the most selective colleges, compared to only 5% of non–Asian American students. Since more Asian American students apply to selective colleges, they are more likely to be denied a seat, which is not evidence of bias.
(So Asians are applying to elite colleges with scores that would not qualify them at double the rate of other races and white racists are claiming that Asians are being cheated)
The Gain for Asian American Applicants Would Be Marginal in a Test-only Admissions System
Overall, in a test-only admissions system, Asian American college applicants would gain a total of fewer than 3,000 seats at the most selective colleges, compared to the nearly 14,500 seats they typically capture in an admissions year. The share of Asian American high school students in a class attending these colleges would increase from 12% to 14%.Many Asian American Applicants Already Benefit Greatly from Holistic Admissions
In a test-only admissions system, 21% of Asian American students and 39% of non–Asian American students would lose their seats in the most selective colleges to students with higher test scores. While it is the case that Asian American students who would not make the cut in a test-only approach overall have higher test-scores, they are also nearly twice as likely as their non–Asian American counterparts to have the lowest scores in the selective college applicant pool.Conclusion
These facts combined tell us that while a test-only admissions standard would affect fewer current Asian American students than non-Asian American students, Asian American students are more likely to be among those who received the largest “boost” from holistic admissions.So it appears that according to this study, Asians have received the most "preferences".
Selective Bias: Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions - CEW Georgetown
There’s no strong evidence of discrimination against Asian American applicants in admissions to highly selective colleges.
cew.georgetown.edu
East Asians succeed without affirmative action.
---------
The Wall Street Journal
SAT Scores Fall as Gap Widens; Asians Gain
By John HechingerAug. 26, 2009 11:59 pm ET
High-school students' performance last year on the SAT college-entrance exam fell slightly, and the score gap generally widened between lower-performing minority groups and white and Asian-American students, raising questions about the effectiveness of national education reform efforts....
In the class of 2009, African-American students received an average critical reading score of 429, or 72 points below the general population. Math scores had a similar gap. Hispanic students’ scores also lagged but not by as much.
Asian-American students showed the most dramatic gains. In math they scored an average of 587-72 points better than the general population. Since 2008, their average math score has climbed six points.
SAT Scores Fall as Gap Widens; Asians Gain - WSJ
www.wsj.com
Nope. That’s why standardized tests were developed.
And do you agree that the reason for it in the first place - to have a way to give more points to blacks - was wrong?
How do you know? Spots were limited, and they’d have to reject SOME Jews in order to make room for lower-qualified blacks. Might have meant a “no” to my parents.
Jews and Orientals tend to be quite a bit more intelligent than Negroes.
Yup….and that’s the reason for the standardized tests.
There are degrees of merit.
Where do you get the idea that was the reason for it? Based on the results, it seems there is some sort of bias that shows in the results, but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support the claim lit is done deliberately or to give more points to Blacks since Whites seem to benefit the most and while Blacks also benefited so did other minorities such as Hispanics.
Harvard’s cult of personality
Harvard either discriminates against Asian applicants or Asian applicants have substantially worse personalities than those of any other racial group.
thehill.com
It also has nothing to do with Affirmative Action.
Bias against Asian-American students is real. Affirmative action isn’t the problem.
We can fight stereotypes about Asian personalities while rejecting the idea that test scores are the only kind of merit.
www.vox.com
However, a week after the Times story appeared, the National Council of Asian Pacific Americans (a coalition of 34 of the leading national organizations representing various Asian-American ethnic groups) issued a statement saying that they also reviewed the Harvard data and did not find intentional or implicit bias against Asian-American applicants.
You have said that Black students of “lesser merit” can get admitted to another school instead of Ivy League. Of course, you are making a big assumption that they are all or even mostly “lower-qualified” to begin with.
Only when you consider the merit of high achieving students to be less because of one’s race
No. I’m going by the statistics. Two out of three blacks admitted to a prestigious college got in due to their color.
But are you saying that my parents, with their exceptionally high grades and scores, could have gone to a lesser school in order to make slots available to lower-scoring blacks kept? Why not let my parents attend the prestige school which they earned with their academic accomplishments, and let the blacks who otherwise would have taken their spots go to the lesser school for which they qualify regardless of race?
It actually doesn’t when it comes to success in College. Texas implimented a system whereby the X percent of every public highschool in the state were automatically accepted in the state college system. They found that while students from low achieving schools needed more help during their first year, they quickly caught up with their peers and matriculated at the same rate.
Standardized tests on the other hand are far less an indicator of “merit” than GPA. There is an entire industry built on helping students, who can afford it, pass those tests. In addition, well funded schools will often offer courses on how to pass the test. A reliance on using standardized as a metric actually increases inequality in terms of economic background which often translates to racial and ethnic inequalities.
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