CDZ Let's run a little experiment. Topic: Paying for College

[Cardinal Carminative]

Well then we can agree to disagree.

We certainly can. With the small exception of the fact that I'm more burdened than you (since my taxes paid for YOUR kids schooling while I had no kids). We both agree on the need for better votech options for Americans and a decreased reliance on simply getting a college degree for jobs that don't require it.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I wonder if we could teach people to do a cost analysis before choosing a field to major in. e.g. if college is going to cost more that your chosen field will earn, then pick a new field that will allow you to afford the loan payments.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I wonder if we could teach people to do a cost analysis before choosing a field to major in.

That's a truly horrible idea.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

That's a truly horrible idea.

Yeah! Why would someone go very deep into debt without the ability to pay it off?...lol. Let's take out 6 figures worth in debt and then just let the taxpayers pick up the tab.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Yeah! Why would someone go very deep into debt without the ability to pay it off?...lol. Let's take out 6 figures worth in debt and then just let the taxpayers pick up the tab.

I've seen first hand what that looks like, though. When I was a grad student and TAing an intro class in my field (in the sciences) I saw someone who was really sharp and seemed to enjoy the subject matter. This was in the SCIENCES mind you, so hardly an 18th C. French Poetry class.

I asked him if he had considered this science as a major and he said he would like to but his dad would only pay for college if he got a BUSINESS degree.

Just what the world needs, another business drone without passion for the field.

It was sad. And even though I know this kid was sharp, I can't help but think that if he forced himself into a field I didn't have a passion for it would be an empty existence for him and he'd probably not do as well as if he went into another field that more comported with his passion.

The way to "fix" any problems is that employers realize a COLLEGE DEGREE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR ALL JOBS. In fact someone who has a passion for Late Nazca Pottery Studies can still be a useful part of the workforce and they might, just might have brought along something the department never thought of.

College isn't a cookie-cutter machine (or shouldn't be). It's a route that allows the human brain to grow and expand.

The key is that our economy is now set up such that employers have somehow decided that you HAVE to have a BA or BS to work in Shipping and Receiving. That's absurd.

That's where the real problem lay.

If we didn't FORCE everyone to get a BA or BS we wouldn't have a ton of people with crippling student loan debt.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I've seen first hand what that looks like, though. When I was a grad student and TAing an intro class in my field (in the sciences) I saw someone who was really sharp and seemed to enjoy the subject matter. This was in the SCIENCES mind you, so hardly an 18th C. French Poetry class.

I asked him if he had considered this science as a major and he said he would like to but his dad would only pay for college if he got a BUSINESS degree.

Just what the world needs, another business drone without passion for the field.

It was sad. And even though I know this kid was sharp, I can't help but think that if he forced himself into a field I didn't have a passion for it would be an empty existence for him and he'd probably not do as well as if he went into another field that more comported with his passion.

The way to "fix" any problems is that employers realize a COLLEGE DEGREE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR ALL JOBS. In fact someone who has a passion for Late Nazca Pottery Studies can still be a useful part of the workforce and they might, just might have brought along something the department never thought of.

College isn't a cookie-cutter machine (or shouldn't be). It's a route that allows the human brain to grow and expand.

The key is that our economy is now set up such that employers have somehow decided that you HAVE to have a BA or BS to work in Shipping and Receiving. That's absurd.

That's where the real problem lay.

If we didn't FORCE everyone to get a BA or BS we wouldn't have a ton of people with crippling student loan debt.

Another problem is that the younger generations have been convinced that the only way to get a good paying job is to get a degree. That isn't the case. The trades are hurting for young people.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Another problem is that the younger generations have been convinced that the only way to get a good paying job is to get a degree. That isn't the case. The trades are hurting for young people.

We really need to open up the VoTech colleges again. We need more trade schools available for folks who don't want to do the college thing but need some basic background training in their chosen field. A friend of mine's son went into VoTech to learn how to run a CNC machine and that's supposedly a pretty good job.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

We really need to open up the VoTech colleges again. We need more trade schools available for folks who don't want to do the college thing but need some basic background training in their chosen field. A friend of mine's son went into VoTech to learn how to run a CNC machine and that's supposedly a pretty good job.

Too many parents taught their kids that there's something wrong with manual labor.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Too many parents taught their kids that there's something wrong with manual labor.

I think that's true. But it's not just the parents. It's industry overall. They shut down manufacturing and told everyone to go into "tech" as if everyone has a coder inside them. That turned out to be another lie, the tech jobs are going away offshored as well.

We still have need of good solid blue-collar jobs but they are disappearing fast. I hope we get a handle on that someday.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I think that's true. But it's not just the parents. It's industry overall. They shut down manufacturing and told everyone to go into "tech" as if everyone has a coder inside them. That turned out to be another lie, the tech jobs are going away offshored as well.

We still have need of good solid blue-collar jobs but they are disappearing fast. I hope we get a handle on that someday.

I believe the scale will tip in the other direction, eventually.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Supply & Demand. The colleges charge what they charge because THEY GET IT.

They only "get it" because our corrupt politicians funnel tax money to them.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I've seen first hand what that looks like, though. When I was a grad student and TAing an intro class in my field (in the sciences) I saw someone who was really sharp and seemed to enjoy the subject matter. This was in the SCIENCES mind you, so hardly an 18th C. French Poetry class.

I asked him if he had considered this science as a major and he said he would like to but his dad would only pay for college if he got a BUSINESS degree.

Just what the world needs, another business drone without passion for the field.

It was sad. And even though I know this kid was sharp, I can't help but think that if he forced himself into a field I didn't have a passion for it would be an empty existence for him and he'd probably not do as well as if he went into another field that more comported with his passion.

The way to "fix" any problems is that employers realize a COLLEGE DEGREE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR ALL JOBS. In fact someone who has a passion for Late Nazca Pottery Studies can still be a useful part of the workforce and they might, just might have brought along something the department never thought of.

College isn't a cookie-cutter machine (or shouldn't be). It's a route that allows the human brain to grow and expand.

The key is that our economy is now set up such that employers have somehow decided that you HAVE to have a BA or BS to work in Shipping and Receiving. That's absurd.

That's where the real problem lay.

If we didn't FORCE everyone to get a BA or BS we wouldn't have a ton of people with crippling student loan debt.

Business degree makes sense---DAD was right--- and you are just a mooch trying to justify everyone else paying for worthless college degress. Here's an ideal----if the college kids take out the degree--they are solely responsible for paying it back without government backing. Which means that they will have to work to support their degree trying out jobs to see what they like and only able to get degrees in subjects where they will be able to earn money to pay back the loans.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

People aren't going to want to go to inexpensive community colleges and trade schools, especially if they can borrow the money to attend a quality institution and then have the loan forgiven when a sufficiently liberal president is elected.

Further, there is little respect given to lower rung schools. Look at the Supreme Fucking Court, example given. 4 Harvard grads,4 Yale alumni and the 9th member is a girl from Notre Dame.


Not a single member ever that was educated at Eastern Gateway Community College, Kent State or even Akron.

How many of those are law schools? My God, you are a dumbass that would fuck up the simplest argument.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We really need to open up the VoTech colleges again. We need more trade schools available for folks who don't want to do the college thing but need some basic background training in their chosen field. A friend of mine's son went into VoTech to learn how to run a CNC machine and that's supposedly a pretty good job.

Why do you think there are no VoTech colleges?

My daughter us attending our local community college getting her paramedic certification. The school also teaches diesel and automotive mechanics. truck driving, agriculture, HVAC, CAD, IT, criminal justice, sonography, culinary arts, electrical, fire/rescue, and a whole lot more. That was just A-F in the program listing.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

English, History, and liberal arts can be learned online.

It would be really cool if there could be a free online college in the spirit of Khan Academy.

When will you people learn that on-line learning sucks! You either hate it or don't remember shit about what you have learned after you take the test.

 

[JoeMoma]

When will you people learn that on-line learning sucks! You either hate it or don't remember shit about what you have learned after you take the test.

So just like traditional learning (school).

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Do you realize this thread is in CDZ? Judging from the insults, you don't.

While online learning might not be for everyone, some do just fine with it.

I did not insult you. I merely asked a valid question.

Yes, some do fine with it. The COVID lockdown experience proved to many people that the vast majority of students struggle with it. If my grandchildren did not have well educated parents and grandparents, they would have not passed. Every one of us has one or two college degrees, or a significant amount of college credit. That was the case for most students and why on-line learning has basically disappeared.

We had an on-line Master's degree in education from what practically functions as a diploma mill out of Miami when I was teaching in Florida. My principal learned you could not hire an administrator from that programs because they had no clue what they were doing. Leadership skills cannot be learned on-line.

The military does on-line education for their internet security and personally identifiable information using an on-line class and testing. It is so easy, I took the course for certification in 2018, and all I had to do was retake the tests every year for certification. They have about 10 topics including anti-terrorism and the tests are so easy, a simpleton could pass them. I finished the 10 required certifications this year in less than 2 hours clock time.

 

[Blues Man]

When will you people learn that on-line learning sucks! You either hate it or don't remember shit about what you have learned after you take the test.

If you don't need a subject for your vocation why pay anything to take it?

People can educate themselves in almost any subject if they have the desire and the discipline

 

[JoeMoma]

I did not insult you. I merely asked a valid question.

Are you always this dishonest? No I didn't call you a liar or insult you, I merely asked a valid question.

Yes, some do fine with it. The COVID lockdown experience proved to many people that the vast majority of students struggle with it. If my grandchildren did not have well educated parents and grandparents, they would have not passed. Every one of us has one or two college degrees, or a significant amount of college credit. That was the case for most students and why on-line learning has basically disappeared.

This thread is about college, not kids in grade school. That being said, schools were closed with no prior planning and Teachers had to "teach" their students online. Hardly a fair trial of online education.

We had an on-line Master's degree in education from what practically functions as a diploma mill out of Miami when I was teaching in Florida. My principal learned you could not hire an administrator from that programs because they had no clue what they were doing. Leadership skills cannot be learned on-line.

Leadership skills aren't learned either online or sitting in a classroom. Leadership skills are learned on the job by being a leader or being lead by a good leader. There are both "diploma mills" on line and not on line.

The military does on-line education for their internet security and personally identifiable information using an on-line class and testing. It is so easy, I took the course for certification in 2018, and all I had to do was retake the tests every year for certification. They have about 10 topics including anti-terrorism and the tests are so easy, a simpleton could pass them. I finished the 10 required certifications this year in less than 2 hours clock time.

Sometimes easy is a good thing. The military was able to document that you have been informed and trained of the security requirements as simple as they may be and now if you break security protocols you do not have training to use as an excuse. You can not claim the Hilary Clinton defense of ignorance (ref. James Comey). Mission accomplished. Nothing wrong with something being ease!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Are you always this dishonest? No I didn't call you a liar or insult you, I merely asked a valid question.

This thread is about college, not kids in grade school. That being said, schools were closed with no prior planning and Teachers had to "teach" their students online. Hardly a fair trial of online education.


Leadership skills aren't learned either online or sitting in a classroom. Leadership skills are learned on the job by being a leader or being lead by a good leader. There are both "diploma mills" on line and not on line.


Sometimes easy is a good thing. The military was able to document that you have been informed and trained of the security requirements as simple as they may be and now if you break security protocols you do not have training to use as an excuse. You can not claim the Hilary Clinton defense of ignorance (ref. James Comey). Mission accomplished. Nothing wrong with something being ease!

I did ask a valid question. Your attitude and demeanor indicates that you are uneducated,

College or grade school, the students are still the same. They struggle with on-line learning.

What would you know about leadership, especially in an education environment?

These military security courses are too easy and no one retains the information.