CDZ Let’s have an honest conversation...

[sakinago]

I don’t even have a topic, so topics are open to floor. BUT, it has to be an honest conversation. No strawmen, no generalizations, no reductionist arguments, just an honest conversation about whatever. Come up with a topic, lay out your reasoning, and let’s go.

 

[MarathonMike]

Ok this is a pet peeve of mine. I believe that the FDA, the drug companies and paid off Congressmen are keeping the narcotics classification schedule from being updated. It hasn't been modified since 1970 and lists Pot as a schedule 1 narcotic. It lists Opiates and Fentanyl as LESS dangerous schedule 2 narcotics!
There has not been one documented death due to Pot and yet there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of documented deaths due to Opiates.

No one talks about the narcotics classification schedule yet it is the most important "law" in regards to Pot and Opiates and it is clearly WRONG. I would even add that incorrect classification of Pot and Opiates is KILLING thousands of Americans every year. Yes I am saying our government has blood on it's hands by not changing it. And they are not changing it because of the billions of dollars that drug companies make and the congressmen and doctors with wallets full of drug company payoffs.

 

[sakinago]

Ok this is a pet peeve of mine. I believe that the FDA, the drug companies and paid off Congressmen are keeping the narcotics classification schedule from being updated. It hasn't been modified since 1970 and lists Pot as a schedule 1 narcotic. It lists Opiates and Fentanyl as LESS dangerous schedule 2 narcotics!
There has not been one documented death due to Pot and yet there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of documented deaths due to Opiates.

No one talks about the narcotics classification schedule yet it is the most important "law" in regards to Pot and Opiates and it is clearly WRONG. I would even add that incorrect classification of Pot and Opiates is KILLING thousands of Americans every year. Yes I am saying our government has blood on it's hands by not changing it. And they are not changing it because of the billions of dollars that drug companies make and the congressmen and doctors with wallets full of drug company payoffs.

Oh this is one I happen to agree with. I think they’ve even gone as far as to call CBD oil a class 1 (whatever is the highest class). That’s 100 ways absurd. Yet, our docs pass out (even though they’ve tried to cutback, it’s still a huge problem) hydrocodene like it’s candy.

Here’s my question pertaining to this topic. Does the fed even have the constitutional power to prohibit these items as they do? They have the commerce and the supremacy clause. The commerce is just supposed to apply to commerce traveling across state boarders, so if they want to, they can say all state to state trade with heroin (or whatever) is illegal. Then you have the supremacy clause, which pretty much states, in the case of any conflicting laws between states and the fed, the fed law gets “supremacy”. But you also have the tenth amendment that basically states, any powers not given to the fed are left up to the states and the people. And this is why when they passed alcohol prohibition, they had to create an amendment to do so, and then another amendment to repeal prohibition. Unless someone can provide a constitutional argument, I do not see where the hell the Fed gets the power to prohibit anything universally.

 

[MarathonMike]

You say 'Fed' do you mean the FDA? That aside I'm not expecting the FDA to be involved in enforcement or prohibition. I do expect the FDA to properly classify these drugs. Currently the fact that Pot and Opiates are incorrectly classified is killing people and reducing the quality of life for others.

Also nowhere in the classification of drugs are the words "May cause death". Considering Opiates kills over 60,000 Americans a YEAR and Pot kills 0 Americans per YEAR, that seems to be a serious omission.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

You say 'Fed' do you mean the FDA? That aside I'm not expecting the FDA to be involved in enforcement or prohibition. I do expect the FDA to properly classify these drugs. Currently the fact that Pot and Opiates are incorrectly classified is killing people and reducing the quality of life for others.

Also nowhere in the classification of drugs are the words "May cause death". Considering Opiates kills over 60,000 Americans a YEAR and Pot kills 0 Americans per YEAR, that seems to be a serious omission.

Similar argument between smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol.....though both are bad for your health, cigarettes are shunned, smokers are ostracized and there are thousands of products & commercials to get you to quit, ...….while alcohol is widely accepted. Go figure

 

[sakinago]

You say 'Fed' do you mean the FDA? That aside I'm not expecting the FDA to be involved in enforcement or prohibition. I do expect the FDA to properly classify these drugs. Currently the fact that Pot and Opiates are incorrectly classified is killing people and reducing the quality of life for others.

Also nowhere in the classification of drugs are the words "May cause death". Considering Opiates kills over 60,000 Americans a YEAR and Pot kills 0 Americans per YEAR, that seems to be a serious omission.

FDA is apart of the Fed, and just because they are their own department, doesn’t mean they have the power to legislate. That is what we elect congressmen and senators to do, to create laws. If the laws suck or are outdated we shouldn’t just ignore them (only to give bad actors the ability to enforce at their discretion), we need to repeal them. But we also need to make sure the federal legaslature isn’t crossing over their boundaries, and this is where the Supreme Court is supposed to come in. They’re supposed to say, wait wait wait, what you’re trying to do isnt laid out in the enumerated powers. Either pass an amendment or leave this to the states to decide. We also need the legislature to say, wait wait wait, hey executive branch, you’re not allowed to enact policy, all you can do is give a thumbs up or down to it, as long as it isn’t a 2/3 majority. Basically we need the branches designed as checks and balances to simply do their job and nothing else.

Fun fact, the FDA was created by teddy rosevelt, because he was sure coke cola was still using cocaine in their soda. They had stopped many years beforehand, won a case against teddy, and after that, teddy still decided he’d do the sore loser play and create the FDA.

Do you believe there is any role in prohibition against of anything?

 

[fncceo]

No strawmen, no generalizations, no reductionist arguments, just

What else is there?

 

[fncceo]

You say 'Fed' do you mean the FDA? That aside I'm not expecting the FDA to be involved in enforcement or prohibition. I do expect the FDA to properly classify these drugs. Currently the fact that Pot and Opiates are incorrectly classified is killing people and reducing the quality of life for others.

Also nowhere in the classification of drugs are the words "May cause death". Considering Opiates kills over 60,000 Americans a YEAR and Pot kills 0 Americans per YEAR, that seems to be a serious omission.

FDA is apart of the Fed, and just because they are their own department, doesn’t mean they have the power to legislate. That is what we elect congressmen and senators to do, to create laws. If the laws suck or are outdated we shouldn’t just ignore them (only to give bad actors the ability to enforce at their discretion), we need to repeal them. But we also need to make sure the federal legaslature isn’t crossing over their boundaries, and this is where the Supreme Court is supposed to come in. They’re supposed to say, wait wait wait, what you’re trying to do isnt laid out in the enumerated powers. Either pass an amendment or leave this to the states to decide. We also need the legislature to say, wait wait wait, hey executive branch, you’re not allowed to enact policy, all you can do is give a thumbs up or down to it, as long as it isn’t a 2/3 majority. Basically we need the branches designed as checks and balances to simply do their job and nothing else.

Fun fact, the FDA was created by teddy rosevelt, because he was sure coke cola was still using cocaine in their soda. They had stopped many years beforehand, won a case against teddy, and after that, teddy still decided he’d do the sore loser play and create the FDA.

Do you believe there is any role in prohibition against of anything?

Having an independent agency to evaluate the efficacy and potential lethality of foods and medicines actually sounds like one of the few legitimate functions of government.

When the FDA bans a substance or product, it isn't creating new legislation, it is upholding existing legislation that prohibits the sale and manufacture of poisons and laws prohibiting selling products with false claims of efficacy.

Of course, there has to be some level of appeal against their decisions.

 

[sakinago]

You say 'Fed' do you mean the FDA? That aside I'm not expecting the FDA to be involved in enforcement or prohibition. I do expect the FDA to properly classify these drugs. Currently the fact that Pot and Opiates are incorrectly classified is killing people and reducing the quality of life for others.

Also nowhere in the classification of drugs are the words "May cause death". Considering Opiates kills over 60,000 Americans a YEAR and Pot kills 0 Americans per YEAR, that seems to be a serious omission.

FDA is apart of the Fed, and just because they are their own department, doesn’t mean they have the power to legislate. That is what we elect congressmen and senators to do, to create laws. If the laws suck or are outdated we shouldn’t just ignore them (only to give bad actors the ability to enforce at their discretion), we need to repeal them. But we also need to make sure the federal legaslature isn’t crossing over their boundaries, and this is where the Supreme Court is supposed to come in. They’re supposed to say, wait wait wait, what you’re trying to do isnt laid out in the enumerated powers. Either pass an amendment or leave this to the states to decide. We also need the legislature to say, wait wait wait, hey executive branch, you’re not allowed to enact policy, all you can do is give a thumbs up or down to it, as long as it isn’t a 2/3 majority. Basically we need the branches designed as checks and balances to simply do their job and nothing else.

Fun fact, the FDA was created by teddy rosevelt, because he was sure coke cola was still using cocaine in their soda. They had stopped many years beforehand, won a case against teddy, and after that, teddy still decided he’d do the sore loser play and create the FDA.

Do you believe there is any role in prohibition against of anything?

Having an independent agency to evaluate the efficacy and potential lethality of foods and medicines actually sounds like one of the few legitimate functions of government.

When the FDA bans a substance or product, it isn't creating new legislation, it is upholding existing legislation that prohibits the sale and manufacture of poisons and laws prohibiting selling products with false claims of efficacy.

Of course, there has to be some level of appeal against their decisions.

I get that argument, I don’t agree with it still. A. I think the FDA does a bad job of their intended goal to “keep us safe.” B. A good way too loose a ton of money and run your business into the ground is to make dangerous drugs, or serve tainted food. Especially in the internet age. We just saw that with chipotle who took a giant hit not too long ago. C. The FDA has crossed the rubicon into running defense, and backing up big pharma, in a way that’s counter to the welfare of the people. It shouldn’t come as a suprise because you make that possible when you give that type of ability to the government. The big players want to remain big players, they have lots of money. Money that politicians want to help their reflection. It’s a match made in heaven. D. Their regulations are too rigid and outdated,

I understand the argument that this falls under “promoting general welfare”, I still don’t agree with it. It’s too loose. You can sling way too many things into that category. This is why the constittion has its enumerated powers, and the 10th amendment.

 

[percysunshine]

Ok this is a pet peeve of mine. I believe that the FDA, the drug companies and paid off Congressmen are keeping the narcotics classification schedule from being updated. It hasn't been modified since 1970 and lists Pot as a schedule 1 narcotic. It lists Opiates and Fentanyl as LESS dangerous schedule 2 narcotics!
There has not been one documented death due to Pot and yet there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of documented deaths due to Opiates.

No one talks about the narcotics classification schedule yet it is the most important "law" in regards to Pot and Opiates and it is clearly WRONG. I would even add that incorrect classification of Pot and Opiates is KILLING thousands of Americans every year. Yes I am saying our government has blood on it's hands by not changing it. And they are not changing it because of the billions of dollars that drug companies make and the congressmen and doctors with wallets full of drug company payoffs.

So, everyone agrees with you.

Next....

 

[fncceo]

I think the FDA does a bad job of their intended goal to “keep us safe.”

No doubt about that. They're a huge, bureaucratic, bloated organization. But, all government organizations are that.

A private organization like Consumer Reports, but for food and drugs, might be a better way to go.

The problem is, if you legislate against the sale of poisons, only a legislative body can define what is and isn't poison.

 

[fncceo]

Their regulations are too rigid and outdated,

Tell that to the Thalidomide children...