Let's get rid of teachers.

[Samson]

Look at just about any government job application and they'll ask for transcripts.

Perhaps. But do they LOOK AT THEM?

Also, hate to burst your bubble, but most jobs are overwhelmingly outside the government sector.

 

[Kosh]

How about we do not allow the unions to dictate how to teach the kids.

 

[Unkotare]

No. A FEW people with degrees in STEM disciplines might find themslves pidgeon-holed, but MOST are quite able to communicate economic analysis.

Perhaps you meant to say that MANY people with liberal arts degrees cannot begin to grasp economics 101?

If you're good at math and physics, you're good at everything. OTOH people trained in liberal arts are lost at even trivial math.

You never did tell us what advanced degree you hold, big mouth.

 

[Asclepias]

Finance is part of stem so it's ok but skip the history and govt and literature crap. That's easy verbal mush and alsouseless. If kids want to learn that crap, they can get a book at the library and learn it.

THINK

That other crap whether you recognize it or not is important.

Verbal and written communications skills will ultimately determine how far you will advance in your career. It is not what you know that is so important but how well you can communicate that knowledge to others. Leaning to express your ideas through essays and verbal presentations are skills that will serve you well regardless of the career you choose.

So many young people who graduate with degrees in the STEM disciplines find their career is stymied because they can't effectively communicate to management how their work meets the goals of the business. Management is rarely interested in just the technical details but rather the impact on budgets and revenue, a vision of the end product or service and how that product will be marketed.

Middle management use to serve as the bridge between the technical staff and upper management. However, the flattening of management structures has decreased the size of middle management. The scientists and engineers often finds themselves preparing budgets, reports, news releases, project presentations, assisting in creating marketing campaigns, and dealing with customers who speak other language with different customs. You don't learn these skills in advanced calculus or thermodynamics but ultimately, they will determine how far you advance in your field.

You can learn communication, business, and financial skills as well as leaning about cultures and languages outside of a formal classroom. The problem is most people either lack the discipline to do so or do not have the time when holding down a job and raising a family.

Of course communication is important and i'm all for teaching literacy. But crap like sociology and literature and philosophy and painting and music don't teach communication skills. They're just useless garbage. Once the student can read and write fluently, all further instruction should be stem.

Wow. I know you were ignorant but this has moved the bar. Painting and music are among the most ancient forms of communication. Philosophy is a foundation course that emphasizes how to think about the world around you.

 

[Flopper]

That other crap whether you recognize it or not is important.

Verbal and written communications skills will ultimately determine how far you will advance in your career. It is not what you know that is so important but how well you can communicate that knowledge to others. Leaning to express your ideas through essays and verbal presentations are skills that will serve you well regardless of the career you choose.

So many young people who graduate with degrees in the STEM disciplines find their career is stymied because they can't effectively communicate to management how their work meets the goals of the business. Management is rarely interested in just the technical details but rather the impact on budgets and revenue, a vision of the end product or service and how that product will be marketed.

Middle management use to serve as the bridge between the technical staff and upper management. However, the flattening of management structures has decreased the size of middle management. The scientists and engineers often finds themselves preparing budgets, reports, news releases, project presentations, assisting in creating marketing campaigns, and dealing with customers who speak other language with different customs. You don't learn these skills in advanced calculus or thermodynamics but ultimately, they will determine how far you advance in your field.

You can learn communication, business, and financial skills as well as leaning about cultures and languages outside of a formal classroom. The problem is most people either lack the discipline to do so or do not have the time when holding down a job and raising a family.

Of course communication is important and i'm all for teaching literacy. But crap like sociology and literature and philosophy and painting and music don't teach communication skills. They're just useless garbage. Once the student can read and write fluently, all further instruction should be stem.

Wow. I know you were ignorant but this has moved the bar. Painting and music are among the most ancient forms of communication. Philosophy is a foundation course that emphasizes how to think about the world around you.

Don't waste your time with ShootSpeeders. He's just throwing out bait to see who will bite.

 

[bodecea]

No. A FEW people with degrees in STEM disciplines might find themslves pidgeon-holed, but MOST are quite able to communicate economic analysis.

Perhaps you meant to say that MANY people with liberal arts degrees cannot begin to grasp economics 101?

If you're good at math and physics, you're good at everything. OTOH people trained in liberal arts are lost at even trivial math.

Not been my experience. Literature and other Liberal arts require more higher level thinking skills.

 

[Esmeralda]

I found classes extremely helpful, especially in college. Learning comes easier when instructed by someone knowledgeable with the material vs reading a book on your own. Also, when in doubt, you can simply ask the prof. a question while in class.

The assumption of the OP that teachers simply repeat what is 'in the book' indicates someone who got nothing out of his education. You get out of school what you put into it. Teachers are not there to simply repeat what is written in books, and students aren't there just to take tests. There is a great deal more to it, but those who don't put in the effort never understand that.

 

[Esmeralda]

With online textbooks, videos of lessons about most any acedemic topic, and tutorial programs, the old fashion classroom lecture is much less needed.

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

 

[Asclepias]

No. A FEW people with degrees in STEM disciplines might find themslves pidgeon-holed, but MOST are quite able to communicate economic analysis.

Perhaps you meant to say that MANY people with liberal arts degrees cannot begin to grasp economics 101?

If you're good at math and physics, you're good at everything. OTOH people trained in liberal arts are lost at even trivial math.

Not been my experience. Literature and other Liberal arts require more higher level thinking skills.

I believe that you need a healthy balance of everything just like anything else in life. You need to be able to think logically as well as be good at the higher planes of thinking required in literature and art. You don't want an immoral population of worker bees nor do you want a population of all airheads.

 

[Flopper]

With online textbooks, videos of lessons about most any acedemic topic, and tutorial programs, the old fashion classroom lecture is much less needed.

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

 

[Esmeralda]

With online textbooks, videos of lessons about most any acedemic topic, and tutorial programs, the old fashion classroom lecture is much less needed.

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

Yes. Things are very different than they used to be. And yes, those who complain about schools have no idea whatsoever what goes on in the modern classroom. As well, those who claim people who are teachers are lazy and just clinging to a cushy job have no idea what a teacher's job is. In fact, if it is so easy and 'cushy,' I wonder why they don't do it themselves.

 

[Flopper]

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

Yes. Things are very different than they used to be. And yes, those who complain about schools have no idea whatsoever what goes on in the modern classroom. As well, those who claim people who are teachers are lazy and just clinging to a cushy job have no idea what a teacher's job is. In fact, if it is so easy and 'cushy,' I wonder why they don't do it themselves.

I taught for two years in high school and I found it very rewarding but not in a financial sense. I don't think I every worked as little as 8 hours a day but I enjoyed it. However, pay was so bad I had to move on.

 

[Samson]

With online textbooks, videos of lessons about most any acedemic topic, and tutorial programs, the old fashion classroom lecture is much less needed.

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

Most complainers cite dropout rates as the primary measurement of public school (teacher) failure:

However,
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

The status dropout rate represents the percentage of 16- through 24-year-olds who are not enrolled in school and have not earned a high school credential (either a diploma or an equivalency credential such as a General Educational Development [GED] certificate).

The status dropout rate declined from 12 percent in 1990 to 7 percent in 2011.

Better Parenting?

Perhaps

Dropout rates were virtually unchanged between 1990 - 2000: the main decline happened between 2001 and 2011.

Ok Class; Your homework is to find what major Education Reform legislation was passed in 2001.

Hint:

Introduced in the House by John Boehner (R-OH) on March 22, 2001
Passed the House on May 23, 2001 (384–45)
Passed the Senate on June 14, 2001 (91–8)

 

[jasonnfree]

With online textbooks, videos of lessons about most any acedemic topic, and tutorial programs, the old fashion classroom lecture is much less needed.

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

So Flopper, if schools are better than they were 25 or 30 years ago why the complaints about American students doing poorly against students in foreign countries?

 

[Sunshine]

I can see having them for young kids but in HS and college we should just give the student the textbooks and tell him when to show up for the tests. Why have a human repeat what's in the book?

Everything i learned in HS and college was thru self-study.

In colleges the teaching model is already changing. We were being apprised of this when I was teaching. There are more and more online classes, and in the near future college professors will not be standing in front of a class pouring knowledge from their head to the heads of their students. They will be more like a 'guide' telling the students where to find what they need to know. I actually did some of my teaching in this manner. The students tend to retain it better and I think they make better clinical decisions if they have had to learn from a variety of sources.

 

[Flopper]

"The old fashioned classroom lecture" doesn't even exist anymore. Teachers nowadays do not stand up in front of the class lecturing, but, rather, address different styles of learning and different levels of questions, as well as active hands on learning, interaction, group learning, etc. Sitting behind a computer and learning a 'trade' is not going to prepare anyone for the real world of a career, is not going to foster life long learning, and will not develop critical thinking skills.

True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

Most complainers cite dropout rates as the primary measurement of public school (teacher) failure:

However,
Fast Facts

The status dropout rate represents the percentage of 16- through 24-year-olds who are not enrolled in school and have not earned a high school credential (either a diploma or an equivalency credential such as a General Educational Development [GED] certificate).

The status dropout rate declined from 12 percent in 1990 to 7 percent in 2011.

Better Parenting?

Perhaps

Dropout rates were virtually unchanged between 1990 - 2000: the main decline happened between 2001 and 2011.

Ok Class; Your homework is to find what major Education Reform legislation was passed in 2001.

Hint:

Introduced in the House by John Boehner (R-OH) on March 22, 2001
Passed the House on May 23, 2001 (384–45)
Passed the Senate on June 14, 2001 (91–8)

It looks like the trend toward lower dropouts started years before the Education Reform legislation became effective in 2002. Most of the provisions of the legislation weren't really implemented till 2005.


http://www.nsba.org/SchoolLaw/Issue...ehindTimetableandFrequentlyAskedQuestions.pdf

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16]Fast Facts

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If you're good at math and physics, you're good at everything. OTOH people trained in liberal arts are lost at even trivial math.

Not been my experience. Literature and other Liberal arts require more higher level thinking skills.

Just the sort of stupid comment i'd expect from a black. Literature does not take brains you moron. Reading a novel is the same as watching a movie.!!!

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Wow. I know you were ignorant but this has moved the bar. Painting and music are among the most ancient forms of communication. :

HAHAHA. What a moron. Being ancient is not the same as being good.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
True, school today is filled with activities, group projects, student reports, demonstrations, class discussions and computer exercises. The old days of students spending their day doing drill and practice, homework, and hours of listening to a teacher lecture are a thing of the past in most schools. My grand kids, in elementary, middle school, and high school have homework almost every night that sometimes takes hours. Two of the kids had projects they had to work on over the holidays. Schools in general are far better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

I think so many people that are complaining about schools have no idea what goes on in the classroom today.

The problem is the inner city schools where it's mostly negros and hispos. If your kids get sent to one of those, it's hopeless.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The assumption of the OP that teachers simply repeat what is 'in the book' indicates someone who got nothing out of his education. You get out of school what you put into it. Teachers are not there to simply repeat what is written in books, and students aren't there just to take tests. There is a great deal more to it, but those who don't put in the effort never understand that.

HAHAHA Your credibility is zero. Everyone knows you're a shill for the teacher's union.