Let's celebrate the Right to Keep and Bear arms...something the rest of the world has surrendered....

[Vagabond63]

Uh huh

My local news is as boring as it gets. There is virtually no crime in my and my 2 neighboring counties

Apologies, by local, I meant American.

 

[Vagabond63]

If only women would stop dressing in sexy clothes, they wouldn't be raped so much.......is essentially what you are saying here.......

You really do have a rape fixation, don't you. Do yourself a favour and get psychiatric help.

 

[Vagabond63]

And the other side....lives saved...because Americans can defend themselves....

Ah yes the predictable torrent of repetative cut and paste. Next?

 

[2aguy]

True, but the "right to bear arms" doesn't specify right to bear firearms, does it?

Yeah, and Freedom of speech doesn’t specify which speech and freedom of religion doesn’t specify which religion….right?

No wonder you guys lost your empire.

 

[2aguy]

You really do have a rape fixation, don't you. Do yourself a favour and get psychiatric help.

You tell us, and any woman reading this thread, everything we need to know when you refuse to answer those questions

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun.....
.
Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=====

The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?

 

[2aguy]

Oh dear, this BS again. Started out at 2.5 million, which was debunked, now it's 1.1 million from a non existant study, pathetic. Next?

You guys keep using that word, “ debunked,” for things you don’t like……….as if that means anything

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

True, but the "right to bear arms" doesn't specify right to bear firearms, does it?

A firearm is an "arm". The word "arm" is literally part of the word firearm.

The 1st Amendment doesn't say anything about the "separation of church and state", but people swear up and down that it does.

 

[2aguy]

A firearm is an "arm". The word "arm" is literally part of the word firearm.

The 1st Amendment doesn't say anything about the "separation of church and state", but people swear up and down that it does.

Yeah....ain't that Brit great..........The 1st Amendment doesn't say which "press" is allowed to be free.......it doesn't say "which" people are allowed to petition for grievances.....

I am amazed they kept their empire as long as they did....

When Putin takes over Europe........will it be hard for them to learn to speak Russian?

 

[2aguy]

Oh dear, this BS again. Started out at 2.5 million, which was debunked, now it's 1.1 million from a non existant study, pathetic. Next?

Here...the rest of the studies......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

 

[M14 Shooter]

True, but the "right to bear arms" doesn't specify right to bear firearms, does it?

There's no question whatsoever that "arms", whatever else it may mean, includes firearms.
Current jurisprudence indicates that it includes all "bearable arms", which, at the least, includes all firearms in common use for traditionally lawful purposes.

 

[Vagabond63]

There's no question whatsoever that "arms", whatever else it may mean, includes firearms.
Current jurisprudence indicates that it includes all "bearable arms", which, at the least, includes all firearms in common use for traditionally lawful purposes.

Never said it didn't. My point was, you can just as easily have a "well regulated militia" armed with Bows, etc.

 

[Vagabond63]

Here...the rest of the studies......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Blah, blah. Same cut and paste drivel. Extrapolated guesswork based on limited sample "opinion polls", Even your 2021 National Firearms survey clearly states ESTIMATES, estimates are basically guesswork, next?

 

[Blues Man]

Apologies, by local, I meant American.

Just more of an illustration that you have no real idea what life here is like .

The US is a big country and the fact is that 70% of all murders in this country take place in well defined depressed urban neighborhoods. This small number of hyper-violent inner city areas actually skew the murder rates for the entire country.

The drivers of the violence are a lot more complicated than mere gun laws. The powers that be know where these areas are and have chosen to do nothing about them because for the most part the murders are young minority males killing other young minority males and the cops, politicians and even the population in general just doesn't care about young minority males.

The murder rate for vast swaths of the rest of the country is extremely low but you people all seem to think that it's some homogeneous statistic. It's not

 

[Vagabond63]

Just more of an illustration that you have no real idea what life here is like .

The US is a big country and the fact is that 70% of all murders in this country take place in well defined depressed urban neighborhoods. This small number of hyper-violent inner city areas actually skew the murder rates for the entire country.

The drivers of the violence are a lot more complicated than mere gun laws. The powers that be know where these areas are and have chosen to do nothing about them because for the most part the murders are young minority males killing other young minority males and the cops, politicians and even the population in general just doesn't care about young minority males.

The murder rate for vast swaths of the rest of the country is extremely low but you people all seem to think that it's some homogeneous statistic. It's not

Never said it was, it's the same in the UK. Our gun crimes are almost always gang related. I lived in Nottingham in the early 2000's when the city was dubbed the gun crime capital of the UK, or "Shottingham" in the popular press. Almost all the violence was caused by a gang war between two gangs in two parts of the city St. Anne's and The Meadows. It got so bad that only armed police patrolled those areas. The situation improved when corrupt police were removed and a major crimes task force took out both the gangs. If you believed the popular press, however, Nottingham was awash with guns and had gunfights everywhere.

Similar situations exist today in many of our major cities, but the answer to such problems is not to make guns freely avaulable to everyone who wants one, To do so, can cause a Saturday night brawl or road rage incident to escalate into something far more deadly.

 

[Blues Man]

Never said it was, it's the same in the UK. Our gun crimes are almost always gang related. I lived in Nottingham in the early 2000's when the city was dubbed the gun crime capital of the UK, or "Shottingham" in the popular press. Almost all the violence was caused by a gang war between two gangs in two parts of the city St. Anne's and The Meadows. It got so bad that only armed police patrolled those areas. The situation improved when corrupt police were removed and a major crimes task force took out both the gangs. If you believed the popular press, however, Nottingham was awash with guns and had gunfights everywhere.

Similar situations exist today in many of our major cities, but the answer to such problems is not to make guns freely avaulable to everyone who wants one, To do so, can cause a Saturday night brawl or road rage incident to escalate into something far more deadly.

Our federal and state guns laws are not designed to give free access to firearms to everyone.

So maybe you should read them.

 

[Vagabond63]

Our federal and state guns laws are not designed to give free access to firearms to everyone.

So maybe you should read them.

Fair point. "but the answer to such problems is not to make guns freely available to everyone (without a criminal record, dishonourable discharge, or known mental health issue plus a few more minor categories) who wants one." OK?

Everyone is a "normal law abidding citizen" until they commit a crime, go mad, etc. They only lose any guns in their posession if authorities are aware they have them.

 

[Blues Man]

Fair point. "but the answer to such problems is not to make guns freely available to everyone (without a criminal record, dishonourable discharge, or known mental health issue plus a few more minor categories) who wants one." OK?

Everyone is a "normal law abidding citizen" until they commit a crime, go mad, etc. They only lose any guns in their posession if authorities are aware they have them.

So you're one of those people who think everyone is just a criminal in waiting.

Maybe we should treat all men as rapists since they're not a rapist until they are right?

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Never said it didn't. My point was, you can just as easily have a "well regulated militia" armed with Bows, etc.

No you can't. Mastering the bow and arrow is much harder than mastering a firearm.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Saw this.....and I thought...it's about time we celebrate our ability to exercise our Right to be free from criminal attack, and government tyranny and murder.....

The anti-gunners here on U.S.messageboard.....believe these people should not be able to own or carry guns....

Soooooo.....



I love this country and its Freedom......

/----/ We are not alone: 10 Countries Where Guns Are Legal

 

[Cellblock2429]

Fair point. "but the answer to such problems is not to make guns freely available to everyone (without a criminal record, dishonourable discharge, or known mental health issue plus a few more minor categories) who wants one." OK?

Everyone is a "normal law abidding citizen" until they commit a crime, go mad, etc. They only lose any guns in their posession if authorities are aware they have them.

/-----/ You are not a drunk driver committing vehicular homicide until you are. Time to give up your car and driver's license. This could be you tomorrow morning driving to work. How can you be so irresponsible?