Let the States Decide- ALA Supreme Court Justice urges Defiance- Gay Marraige

[The Rabbi]

Should blacks be allowed to vote? Let the states decide.

Yeah, we tried that - letting the states decide on issues of equal protection didn't work out so well.

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

 

[Seawytch]

Should blacks be allowed to vote? Let the states decide.

Yeah, we tried that - letting the states decide on issues of equal protection didn't work out so well.

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Negatory there big fella...

Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period. Well, unless they are wrong, then the courts fix it. Period.

Hmm...seems you don't give a shit about the majority, you just want your way...

We are a Republic, not a Democracy. Didn't you ever take a Government class?

Oh, is that the excuse the Left uses to subvert the will of the people?

In fact, every time I hear that idiocy, "we are not a democracy, we're a republic" I want to scream because the person saying it thinks their educated when in fact they're a buffoon. We're actually both. .

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

 

[Seawytch]

We are a Republic, not a Democracy. Didn't you ever take a Government class?

Oh, is that the excuse the Left uses to subvert the will of the people?

In fact, every time I hear that idiocy, "we are not a democracy, we're a republic" I want to scream because the person saying it thinks their educated when in fact they're a buffoon. We're actually both. .

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

 

[The Rabbi]

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Negatory there big fella...

Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Oh, is that the excuse the Left uses to subvert the will of the people?

In fact, every time I hear that idiocy, "we are not a democracy, we're a republic" I want to scream because the person saying it thinks their educated when in fact they're a buffoon. We're actually both. .

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Oh, is that the excuse the Left uses to subvert the will of the people?

In fact, every time I hear that idiocy, "we are not a democracy, we're a republic" I want to scream because the person saying it thinks their educated when in fact they're a buffoon. We're actually both. .

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Or the President suing Arizona instead of administering the law.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Oh, is that the excuse the Left uses to subvert the will of the people?

In fact, every time I hear that idiocy, "we are not a democracy, we're a republic" I want to scream because the person saying it thinks their educated when in fact they're a buffoon. We're actually both. .

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Did you whine when the president sued the state of Arizona?

No? Then STFU!

 

[Seawytch]

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Did you whine when the president sued the state of Arizona?

No? Then STFU!

He didn't, the Justice Department did...which is their job.

 

[Seawytch]

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Negatory there big fella...

Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Or the President suing Arizona instead of administering the law.

Oh look at you ignoring your wrongness on sodomy laws.

 

[bodecea]

.

Should blacks be allowed to vote? Let the states decide.

Yeah, we tried that - letting the states decide on issues of equal protection didn't work out so well.

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Well, how many straights were arrested and charged with that statute?

 

[bodecea]

Here is what the claim was

We are a democracy, if the majority speaks, they get their way. Period.

We are not that kind of democracy- we are arguably a Constitutional Democratic Republic- i.e. our entire system of government is determined by our Constitution, we use a Democratic process(but not direct Democracy) to elect our representatives.

But to say simply 'we are a Democracy' is at best incomplete and when arguing that the majority gets whatever it wants, is just totally false.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Did you whine when the president sued the state of Arizona?

No? Then STFU!

And if people don't shut up when you want them to? Do you shoot them in the back of the head like your hero?

 

[WorldWatcher]

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

1. I don't see "male" in the statute, and

2. The title of the is "Homosexual Conduct"


***********************************************

Texas Penal Code - Section 21.06. Homosexual Conduct
§ 21.06. HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT.

[This section was declared unconstitutional by Lawrence v. Texas,
123 S.Ct. 2472.]
(a) A person commits an offense if he engages in deviate
sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


Texas Penal Code - Section 21.06. Homosexual Conduct - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws


>>>>

 

[kaz]

Doesn't matter. Don't let the radical right get under your skin. Theirs is a losing position on this one. Any state attempting to deny marriage rights to gays will be slapped by the courts.

Argument 2. And the Circuit Court in OH apparently disagrees as gay marriage is still not recognized in TN.

We're a democracy of judges, the majority of judges wins now...

 

[kaz]

Exactly...there have been numerous studies on the topic and the children of gays and lesbians are at no disadvantage to those of straights. There are no differences in outcomes.

What is ideal is for children to have two parents...their gender is immaterial. (except when it comes to lactation)

Whether or not children raised by same gender couples end up as exactly as well oriented as children raised by opposite couples is really a stupid argument.

Why?

Because children are raised in all sorts of environments, and as Kaz points out, they do- or they don't turn out okay.

Kaz says he missed having a father. Other children miss having any parent at all. And then some children are just raised by horrible parents.

We don't tell heterosexual parents "prove to us you will be a good parent"- instead as long as they are not physically harming the children they can raise them pretty much how they want- look at Stevie the racist bragging how his kids were all raised to hate blacks and Jews.

The point is that none of this is relevant to marriage. We do not require people to get married before they have children- or married after they have children. We don't prevent ;married parents from divorcing.

We don't require that parents be 'ideal parents' - we don't really even have any expectations that parents will be 'ideal parents'- but we can hope that parents will step up and try to be ideal parents to the best of their abilities.

And having observed friends of mine who happen to be parents who happen to be gay- thats what I see. Just like I see that with our other friends who happen to be parents.

How it applies to gay marriage is adoption. All qualified heterosexual parents should be able to do public adoptions before singles or gays. I don't give a rats ass about the straight parents, it's in the interest of the only people who matter. The children.

Liberals never stop making someone equal until they have more rights than anyone else does. You know it's going to continue there.

What a great message to the kids abandoned by their heterosexual parents and then adopted by homosexual couples

"no one else wanted you, so we will let let these people that we don't think are as good, adopt you"

Leave the handicapped and the non-white children abandoned by heterosexual parents to be raised by homosexuals.

How very white of you. Meanwhile the need for adoptive parents for the children abandoned by their heterosexual parents continues:

Facts and Statistics

In the U.S. 397,122 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.

In 2012, 23,396 youth aged out of the U.S. foster care system without the emotional and financial support necessary to succeed. Nearly 40% had been homeless or couch surfed, nearly 60% of young men had been convicted of a crime, and only 48% were employed. 75% of women and 33% of men receive government benefits to meet basic needs. 50% of all youth who aged out were involved in substance use and 17% of the females were pregnant.

Here's a tissue, now take deep breaths and try to calm down

Don't you have another thread to troll about how much you hate marriage?

Strawman

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Did you whine when the president sued the state of Arizona?

No? Then STFU!

He didn't, the Justice Department did...which is their job.

The Justice Department works for the president. Or did you think the Lying African had nothing to do with Eric Holder's appointment?

 

[kaz]

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Discrimination based on animus is the same whether race or gender...and the courts are agreeing.

Except it is not based on animus. Another false claim of the gay lobby.

Except that the courts are finding otherwise. Note from the Supreme Court ruling on DOMA- referring to animus as being the essence of DOMA

DOMA seeks to injure the very class New York seeks to
protect. By doing so it violates basic due process and
equal protection principles applicable to the Federal Government.
See U. S. Const., Amdt. 5; Bolling v. Sharpe,
347 U. S. 497 (1954). The Constitution’s guarantee of
equality “must at the very least mean that a bare congressional
desire to harm a politically unpopular group
cannot” justify disparate treatment of that group. Department
of Agriculture v. Moreno, 413 U. S. 528, 534–535
(1973). In determining whether a law is motived by an
improper animus or purpose, “‘[d]iscriminations of an unusual
character’” especially require careful consideration.
Supra, at 19 (quoting Romer, supra, at 633). DOMA
cannot survive under these principles. The responsibility
of the States for the regulation of domestic relations is an
important indicator of the substantial societal impact the
State’s classifications have in the daily lives and customs
of its people. DOMA’s unusual deviation from the usual
tradition of recognizing and accepting state definitions of
marriage here operates to deprive same-sex couples of the
benefits and responsibilities that come with the federal
recognition of their marriages. This is strong evidence of a
law having the purpose and effect of disapproval of that class.

The avowed purpose and practical effect of the law here in question are to impose a disadvantage, a separate status, and so a stigma upon all who enter into same-sex marriages made lawful by the unquestioned authority of the States. The history of DOMA’s enactment and its own text demonstrate that interference with the equal dignity of same-sex marriages, a dignity conferred by the States in the exercise of their sovereign power, was more than an incidental effect of the federal statute. It was its essence

Argument 2

Wow, you proved that point. They do just have two points they mindlessly parrot over and over...

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Did you whine when the president sued the state of Arizona?

No? Then STFU!

And if people don't shut up when you want them to? Do you shoot them in the back of the head like your hero?

Start a war and kill 600,000 Americans and I just might.

 

[kaz]

Should blacks be allowed to vote? Let the states decide.

Yeah, we tried that - letting the states decide on issues of equal protection didn't work out so well.

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Kaz is absolutely correct. It is a false analogy. A lifestyle is not the legal equivalent of a race of people.

Worse, the comparison of butt sex to the harrowing struggles of Black Americans is unbelievably offensive. I'm white and I feel like kicking your ass on behalf of Blacks everywhere.

I see lots of white people acting all offended on behalf of black Americans.

But Mildred Loving isn't offended:

I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That's what Loving, and loving, are all about.

She's not political and says what you want to hear, you can live with that. But if she said she's a conservative you'd be out to destroy the *****...

 

[The Rabbi]

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Negatory there big fella...

Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Pure democracies and pure republics are both oppressive forms of government for the reasons I gave. Right now the pendulum is swung too far toward republicanism. Wisconsin is a good example. The people voted to restrict public unions and the unions had it stopped in the courts. When we reach the point that the minority can have any law they don't like overturned in court, then democracy is frustrated, the people believing an oligarchy runs the country and their voice doesn't count. Democracy should have the final word unless there's a grievous breech in civil liberties. And some states allowing gay marriage while others don't doesn't fit that description.

Rights exist and are protected for the sake of the minority. The majority rarely has to have its rights protected. They can act in their own interests. But the minority is where rights are truly tested, where they actually need protecting.

The idea that our republic is broken if the rights of minorities are protected is nonsense.

The only problem is when rights have no limits and begin to crowd out democracy and the right of the people to shape the government they live under. We are becoming less a government by the people and more a government by the judges. When the pendulum swings to far to republicanism, it becomes tyranny because laws are no longer decided by the democratic process, but rather by what a judge can be convinced the law should be. That's not America.

Actually, when it comes to civil rights in this country, it's how things have been done. What's new is shit like the House ******* suing the President instead of legislating.

Or the President suing Arizona instead of administering the law.

Oh look at you ignoring your wrongness on sodomy laws.

Oh look, me not embarassing you.

Hardwick became hostile and threatened to have officers fired for entering his home.[citation needed] Both men were placed under arrest for sodomy, which was defined in Georgia law to include both oral sex and anal sex between members of the same or opposite sex.[5] The local district attorney elected not to present the charge to the grand jury, which would have been a prerequisite to any trial or punishment for the offense. Hardwick then sued Michael Bowers, the attorney general of Georgia, in federal court for a declaration that the state's sodomy law was invalid. He charged that as an active homosexual, he was liable to eventually be prosecuted for his activities.]

You understand they were not enforced, right? The only reason they became an issue is because the fags ginned up a case they could bring. OTherwise no one cared. Fags, causing trouble and disease wherever they go.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

False analogy

Bullshit reply

Black and Gay are different issues. There were laws saying what blacks could and could not do. There is no such law for gays, gays can do exactly the same things straights can. It's a false analogy. You can like it or not, but I'm not explaining one issue in relation to a completely different issue.

Incorrect.

There were laws that controlled the lives of gay Americans as well, laws that violated their civil rights just as the rights of African-Americans were violated.

For example, in Colorado, Amendment 2 made it illegal for LGBT residents of that state to avail themselves of anti-discrimination laws. The Colorado Supreme Court struck down that measure as a violation of the 14th Amendment, whose ruling was affirmed by the US Supreme Court (Romer v. Evans).

In Texas it was illegal for consenting adult gay men to engage in sex in the privacy of their own homes. The Texas law was likewise invalidated by the Supreme Court for violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment (Lawrence v. Texas).

Just as African-Americans were compelled to fight for their civil rights in the courts a generation ago to strike down discriminatory, un-Constitutional measures, so too must gay Americans fight for their civil rights today; against unjust measures violating the equal protection rights of same-sex couples.

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

Well, how many straights were arrested and charged with that statute?

How many gays were? Virtually none.

 

[The Rabbi]

You are incorrect. The Texas statute made male sodomy a crime. It didnt matter if you were gay or straight. Similarly with all the other examples.

1. I don't see "male" in the statute, and

2. The title of the is "Homosexual Conduct"


***********************************************

Texas Penal Code - Section 21.06. Homosexual Conduct
§ 21.06. HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT.

[This section was declared unconstitutional by Lawrence v. Texas,
123 S.Ct. 2472.]
(a) A person commits an offense if he engages in deviate
sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


Texas Penal Code - Section 21.06. Homosexual Conduct - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws


>>>>

Gee I dont see where it specified homosexuals at all in the statute. Looks like you're wrong. Again.