Let the public vote!!!!!

[Trigg]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - A proposal that would impose sweeping restrictions on the ability of illegal immigrants to live and work in the city will be put before voters after the City Council refused to adopt it.

The proposal would prohibit

1. landlords from renting to undocumented people,

2. force day laborers to prove legal residency to work.

I thought this was a law already. Am I wrong, and if so, why do people bother to apply for work visa's????

3. ban taxpayer-funded day-labor centers.

Geez this just makes sense. Why would people want their tax dollars going to people in the country working illegally??????

4. mandate that city business be in English and deny permits to businesses hiring illegal immigrants.

I don't have a problem with signs being in Spanish. I've seen numerous signs in English when traveling out of the country and they're a huge help.
I thought employers who hired illegals were already supposed to be subjected to fines. So, denying them permits is a great idea.
.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060516/ap_on_re_us/illegal_immigrants_initiative_2


If the senate and the house can't get together on a REAL sollution to the illegal immigrant problem than maybe we should put it to a vote just like California. Then at least we'd know what the people REALLY want and it wouldn't be left up to a bunch of old men who are looking to be re-elected.

 

[dilloduck]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - A proposal that would impose sweeping restrictions on the ability of illegal immigrants to live and work in the city will be put before voters after the City Council refused to adopt it.

The proposal would prohibit

1. landlords from renting to undocumented people,

2. force day laborers to prove legal residency to work.

I thought this was a law already. Am I wrong, and if so, why do people bother to apply for work visa's????

3. ban taxpayer-funded day-labor centers.

Geez this just makes sense. Why would people want their tax dollars going to people in the country working illegally??????

4. mandate that city business be in English and deny permits to businesses hiring illegal immigrants.

I don't have a problem with signs being in Spanish. I've seen numerous signs in English when traveling out of the country and they're a huge help.
I thought employers who hired illegals were already supposed to be subjected to fines. So, denying them permits is a great idea.
.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060516/ap_on_re_us/illegal_immigrants_initiative_2


If the senate and the house can't get together on a REAL sollution to the illegal immigrant problem than maybe we should put it to a vote just like California. Then at least we'd know what the people REALLY want and it wouldn't be left up to a bunch of old men who are looking to be re-elected.

I do---I want all signs etc etc in English only--its a waste of money and keeps people from learning English. If I yell " hey-look out for that car" in english it ain't gonna help out that non-english speaking person much. And vice versa.

 

[Trigg]

I do---I want all signs etc etc in English only--its a waste of money and keeps people from learning English. If I yell " hey-look out for that car" in english it ain't gonna help out that non-english speaking person much. And vice versa.

I do think that all legal papers, DMV, job applications, rental contracts, things like that, need to be in English and nothing else. But, since Spanish is the most spoken foreign language in America, I don't see a problem with putting Spanish signs at the airport, train station or shops.

There are English signs all over Finland, Sweden and Italy in the more tourist areas.

 

[dilloduck]

I do think that all legal papers, DMV, job applications, rental contracts, things like that, need to be in English and nothing else. But, since Spanish is the most spoken foreign language in America, I don't see a problem with putting Spanish signs at the airport, train station or shops.

There are English signs all over Finland, Sweden and Italy in the more tourist areas.

Illegal aliens aren't tourists

 

[Trigg]

Illegal aliens aren't tourists

Correct!!! Never said they were...see we agree. That's why I said I don't have a problem with Spanish signs in TOURIST areas, just like other countries have English signs in tourist areas.

What do you think of the rest of the article though??

 

[dilloduck]

Correct!!! Never said they were...see we agree. That's why I said I don't have a problem with Spanish signs in TOURIST areas, just like other countries have English signs in tourist areas.

What do you think of the rest of the article though??

People can vote on things but it doesn't mean anything is gonna happen. Lawyers and judges end up sorting everything out anyway. I'm not sure who even has juridisction.

 

[1549]

Passing those laws would open a very large can of worms...

Regarding no renting to illegals...we are best off leaving that decision to the renter. If there were 12 million illegal immigrants wandering homeless that would be a total nightmare. The immigrants would not be safe and U.S. citizens would not be safe. I have never heard anyone praise the existence of homeless populations, so why support a bill forcing people to become homeless?

Regarding day laborers providing proof of citizenship...Illegals are here, it can not be denied. They are not going back to Mexico. Doing something like this would really hurt their population. It would also create a deeper black market for labor. A lot of people in my neighborhood pick up day laborers to help mulch and shit like that. It is not the best practice, but my neighbors get cheap labor, and the workers get money to live off of. Without day labor, the illegals will go hungry, homeless, and die. Day labor must be allowed.

banning tax-payer funded centers...meh, this issue could go either way. It is meant to make the practice safe for all involved. But I can see why people are angry.

As for #4...Punishing companies employing illegal immigrants is something that should happen gradually over time. When you talk about use of language, who gives two shits if some signs are in spanish? If the business owner is spanish and wants every sign in that business to be posted in spanish...more power to him. Retail stores and such should use spanish and english because it helps with business. Legal documents should be provided in both. As long as the people signing are legal citizens, it is beneficial if the document is provided in the language understood best by those signing.

 

[5stringJeff]

Passing those laws would open a very large can of worms...

Regarding no renting to illegals...we are best off leaving that decision to the renter. If there were 12 million illegal immigrants wandering homeless that would be a total nightmare. The immigrants would not be safe and U.S. citizens would not be safe. I have never heard anyone praise the existence of homeless populations, so why support a bill forcing people to become homeless?

If one is renting to an illegal, one is assisting him to stay in this country illegally. Therefore, I think this is a great law. And if that means that illegals will be homeless, then hopefully, that will convince illegals to go back home, and/or slow the flow of illegals coming north.

Regarding day laborers providing proof of citizenship...Illegals are here, it can not be denied. They are not going back to Mexico. Doing something like this would really hurt their population. It would also create a deeper black market for labor. A lot of people in my neighborhood pick up day laborers to help mulch and shit like that. It is not the best practice, but my neighbors get cheap labor, and the workers get money to live off of. Without day labor, the illegals will go hungry, homeless, and die. Day labor must be allowed.

We want to discourage illegals from coming over here. Denying them the ability to work is the best way we can do this. So again, this is a great policy.

banning tax-payer funded centers...meh, this issue could go either way. It is meant to make the practice safe for all involved. But I can see why people are angry.

I'm not very familiar with these, but if taxpayer-funded work centers are providing illegals with jobs, they are wrong. See point #2.

As for #4...Punishing companies employing illegal immigrants is something that should happen gradually over time. When you talk about use of language, who gives two shits if some signs are in spanish? If the business owner is spanish and wants every sign in that business to be posted in spanish...more power to him. Retail stores and such should use spanish and english because it helps with business. Legal documents should be provided in both. As long as the people signing are legal citizens, it is beneficial if the document is provided in the language understood best by those signing.

I absolutely disagree that legal documents should be in any language but English.

 

[1549]

If one is renting to an illegal, one is assisting him to stay in this country illegally. Therefore, I think this is a great law. And if that means that illegals will be homeless, then hopefully, that will convince illegals to go back home, and/or slow the flow of illegals coming north.



We want to discourage illegals from coming over here. Denying them the ability to work is the best way we can do this. So again, this is a great policy.



I'm not very familiar with these, but if taxpayer-funded work centers are providing illegals with jobs, they are wrong. See point #2.



I absolutely disagree that legal documents should be in any language but English.

The problem with such logic is that it does not alleviate the problems, it creates new ones. 12 million people are not going to walk back across a border that they risked their lives to pass through.

An influx of illegal immigrants at current rates can not occurr. In a perfect world, it would not be a problem...but it is. Eventually having millions upon millions of undocumented people living here will have an impact. The solution can not be an immediate withdrawal of the illegal immigrant's life lines. Taking away the income and housing of these people is not the answer right now.

What must be done: slow the number that come over and begin a process of legalizing those that are here. Twenty years from now, it might be possible to pass laws like those mentioned above...right now it would be a horrible mistake. The town next to mine has many illegal immigrants. As it is, they line up every day to compete for jobs. If they are lucky, they will get some work. They don't drive, they have to ride bikes or walk. Several families cram into small apartments.

So now take away the day labor lines. Take away those small shitty apartments. What the hell are they going to do? Walk back to Mexico? (I live in New Jersey...I don't think anybody will be making that walk anytime soon)

As Bush said in his speech, these people are human. Laws one and two in this proposal could be classified as inhumane because of the results it would have on the population.

Imagine you have a jar full of crickets living off of some of that pet-store cricket food. (sorry for the strange analogy, but I used to feed crickets to my frog) You decide to take the food out of the jar. What will happen? If you do not replenish the food, all that will be left is a bunch of dead crickets. Take away housing and day labor...well, you see where I am going with that.

 

[dilloduck]

The problem with such logic is that it does not alleviate the problems, it creates new ones. 12 million people are not going to walk back across a border that they risked their lives to pass through.

An influx of illegal immigrants at current rates can not occurr. In a perfect world, it would not be a problem...but it is. Eventually having millions upon millions of undocumented people living here will have an impact. The solution can not be an immediate withdrawal of the illegal immigrant's life lines. Taking away the income and housing of these people is not the answer right now.

What must be done: slow the number that come over and begin a process of legalizing those that are here. Twenty years from now, it might be possible to pass laws like those mentioned above...right now it would be a horrible mistake. The town next to mine has many illegal immigrants. As it is, they line up every day to compete for jobs. If they are lucky, they will get some work. They don't drive, they have to ride bikes or walk. Several families cram into small apartments.

So now take away the day labor lines. Take away those small shitty apartments. What the hell are they going to do? Walk back to Mexico? (I live in New Jersey...I don't think anybody will be making that walk anytime soon)

As Bush said in his speech, these people are human. Laws one and two in this proposal could be classified as inhumane because of the results it would have on the population.

Imagine you have a jar full of crickets living off of some of that pet-store cricket food. (sorry for the strange analogy, but I used to feed crickets to my frog) You decide to take the food out of the jar. What will happen? If you do not replenish the food, all that will be left is a bunch of dead crickets. Take away housing and day labor...well, you see where I am going with that.

You underestimate them--they can get back if they wish---they will even get free rides.

 

[007]

...the illegal immigrant problem...

Uummm... don't you mean the illegal "ALIEN" problem. Or how about criminal infiltrator? Or maybe even the age old wetback. They're any of those, yes, but they are NOT "immigrants". Immigrants come to this country "LEGALY". The term "illegal immigrant" is a contradiction in and of itself. Don't fall into this PC bullshit. Call them what they are.

 

[007]

The problem with such logic is that it does not alleviate the problems, it creates new ones. 12 million people are not going to walk back across a border that they risked their lives to pass through.

No... you're logic is the one that's flawed. 12 million walked here, 12 million can walk back. You're spineless, liberal, defeatist attitude is the problem.

An influx of illegal immigrants at current rates can not occurr. In a perfect world, it would not be a problem...but it is. Eventually having millions upon millions of undocumented people living here will have an impact. The solution can not be an immediate withdrawal of the illegal immigrant's life lines. Taking away the income and housing of these people is not the answer right now.

Yes it is. Take away everything. The jobs, the money, the freebies, everything! Make it worse here than they had it in mexico, and they'll leave. Maybe they'll even try and change something for the better in their OWN coutry.

What must be done: slow the number that come over and begin a process of legalizing those that are here. Twenty years from now, it might be possible to pass laws like those mentioned above...right now it would be a horrible mistake. The town next to mine has many illegal immigrants. As it is, they line up every day to compete for jobs. If they are lucky, they will get some work. They don't drive, they have to ride bikes or walk. Several families cram into small apartments.

What must be done is anything but what you're proposing. What you're saying is basically "give them amnesty." Well guess what number guy, that ain't going to happen either. Whether you like it or not, I believe that it's going to get real tough on illegals here. People don't WANT them here. They want them to go back to mexico, and that's the end to which we'll work.

So now take away the day labor lines. Take away those small shitty apartments. What the hell are they going to do? Walk back to Mexico?

Sounds better everytime I hear it.

As Bush said in his speech, these people are human. Laws one and two in this proposal could be classified as inhumane because of the results it would have on the population.

Inhumane my ass. They're criminals. They shouldn't even be here in the first place. Laws one and two leave them with only one choice, get the hell out of here, which is what the VAST majority of Americans want.

Imagine you have a jar full of crickets living off of some of that pet-store cricket food. (sorry for the strange analogy, but I used to feed crickets to my frog) You decide to take the food out of the jar. What will happen? If you do not replenish the food, all that will be left is a bunch of dead crickets. Take away housing and day labor...well, you see where I am going with that.

Yeah I see where you're going with that. You're calling all the illegal aliens crickets.

 

[Hobbit]

I have equal contempt for illegals and the 'homeless.' The vast majority of both are there by choice. That being said, I have the same solution for both, yank out the welcome mat. If you don't give them their handouts, they'll go away. Last time the study was issued, Little Rock was the third meanest city in the country to homeless people (I'd like to shoot for number one, so watch out, Sarasota). I go to Little Rock quite often when I'm in Arkansas. Guess how many homeless people I've seen there...NONE! Atlanta's number 4, and I've only seen one there. That's because when we're mean to them, they find a way, either by going elsewhere or getting off their smelly asses and getting jobs.

Illegals usually go back to Mexico and then back to America once every three years to see their families. If we yank out the mat, they'll go back and stay back.

By the way, I didn't always think so ill of homeless people. It wasn't until somebody in Memphis who owned a very successful small business took me out one day. Every time we saw a homeless person, he'd offer them a decent job (as much as his other employees), free rent for a month, a week's worth of nice clothes, and even a couple week's groceries if the guy would just work for him for at least 2 months. He didn't get a single new employee all day.

 

[dilloduck]

I have equal contempt for illegals and the 'homeless.' The vast majority of both are there by choice. That being said, I have the same solution for both, yank out the welcome mat. If you don't give them their handouts, they'll go away. Last time the study was issued, Little Rock was the third meanest city in the country to homeless people (I'd like to shoot for number one, so watch out, Sarasota). I go to Little Rock quite often when I'm in Arkansas. Guess how many homeless people I've seen there...NONE! Atlanta's number 4, and I've only seen one there. That's because when we're mean to them, they find a way, either by going elsewhere or getting off their smelly asses and getting jobs.

Illegals usually go back to Mexico and then back to America once every three years to see their families. If we yank out the mat, they'll go back and stay back.

By the way, I didn't always think so ill of homeless people. It wasn't until somebody in Memphis who owned a very successful small business took me out one day. Every time we saw a homeless person, he'd offer them a decent job (as much as his other employees), free rent for a month, a week's worth of nice clothes, and even a couple week's groceries if the guy would just work for him for at least 2 months. He didn't get a single new employee all day.

Ask China about mean--they starved millions of thier own---looks like Mexico would be willing to do the same.

 

[5stringJeff]

The problem with such logic is that it does not alleviate the problems, it creates new ones. 12 million people are not going to walk back across a border that they risked their lives to pass through.

An influx of illegal immigrants at current rates can not occurr. In a perfect world, it would not be a problem...but it is. Eventually having millions upon millions of undocumented people living here will have an impact. The solution can not be an immediate withdrawal of the illegal immigrant's life lines. Taking away the income and housing of these people is not the answer right now.

I absolutely disagree. If you take away the illegal's ability to work and get shelter, then they will be forced to leave. And that's the whole point - we want to make America as unwelcome as possible to illegals.

What must be done: slow the number that come over and begin a process of legalizing those that are here. Twenty years from now, it might be possible to pass laws like those mentioned above...right now it would be a horrible mistake. The town next to mine has many illegal immigrants. As it is, they line up every day to compete for jobs. If they are lucky, they will get some work. They don't drive, they have to ride bikes or walk. Several families cram into small apartments.

So now take away the day labor lines. Take away those small shitty apartments. What the hell are they going to do? Walk back to Mexico? (I live in New Jersey...I don't think anybody will be making that walk anytime soon)

As Bush said in his speech, these people are human. Laws one and two in this proposal could be classified as inhumane because of the results it would have on the population.

So you just want to grant 12 million illegals amnesty? Do you not understand that such a policy will increase the amount of illegals coming to America? That's the exact opposite of what we are trying to do.

 

[1549]

Uummm... don't you mean the illegal "ALIEN" problem. Or how about criminal infiltrator? Or maybe even the age old wetback. They're any of those, yes, but they are NOT "immigrants". Immigrants come to this country "LEGALY". The term "illegal immigrant" is a contradiction in and of itself. Don't fall into this PC bullshit. Call them what they are.

The word immigrant was not created by America. Immigrant does not mean "someone who legally enters a new country". It is any person who leaves one country for another. Are mexicans doing that? I thought so. Are they doing it illegaly? yep. Put the two together...oh my God it is not PC...it is correct english...holy shit no way!?

So you just want to grant 12 million illegals amnesty? Do you not understand that such a policy will increase the amount of illegals coming to America? That's the exact opposite of what we are trying to do.

I would agree...if we granted citizenship overnight. If tomorrow we said, "if you are here, you are a legal citizen"...then there would be a rush across the border. Illegal immigration has been a problem for decades. If we grant illegal immigrants citizenship through a slow process, while establishing tighter security at the borders...we have a winning combination. Then maybe we can talk about the San Bernardino proposals 20 or 30 years down the road. Nothing major needs to be done in the next 24 hours or 24 days or even 2 years.

I have equal contempt for illegals and the 'homeless.' The vast majority of both are there by choice. That being said, I have the same solution for both, yank out the welcome mat. If you don't give them their handouts, they'll go away. Last time the study was issued, Little Rock was the third meanest city in the country to homeless people (I'd like to shoot for number one, so watch out, Sarasota). I go to Little Rock quite often when I'm in Arkansas. Guess how many homeless people I've seen there...NONE! Atlanta's number 4, and I've only seen one there. That's because when we're mean to them, they find a way, either by going elsewhere or getting off their smelly asses and getting jobs.

The vast majority of homeless people suffer mental illnesses and come from backgrounds that can not support treatment for their problems. Pitching homeless people quarters is not going to help them, but being mean to them will not work either. A 2001 study estimates there are 16,625 homeless people in Atlanta--and Atlanta is not a big city. I don't think 16,000+ people in a city of about half a million just decided that they are too damn lazy to even get by on the bare minimum. I have spent my entire life on the outskirts of 2 cities: Chicago and New York...from what I have seen, it would be a lot easier if homeless people were just lazy.