Let the nation default?

[KissMy]

The 79 thing was a technical error in processing. The rates of the time did not double because of the error.

That's what deadbeats always say when they miss payments. Treasury blamed it on the failure of Congress to act in a timely fashion on the debt ceiling legislation in April 1979. The bond holders had to join a class action lawsuit & sue the Federal Government to get the rest of their money.

 

[KissMy]

Just playing chicken with default has caused the 1 month T-Bill rate to triple. This spike in the front month is just a small signal of what is coming if they keep this up.

 

[Flopper]

S&P made it pretty clear that one of the reason for downgrade was the ineffectiveness of American political parties.

"More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness,
stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political
institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic
challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a
negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011."
S&P | United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To 'AA+' Due To Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative | Americas

Yes, we do have the revenue to service our debt. However, servicing debt is not the only obligation the government has. Laws passed by congress has obligated the government to provide a multitude of services. When the congress doesn't act on either the budget or the debt ceiling, then the administration must decide which obligations are to be met and which aren't. Congress by lack of action chooses to let the administration make the decisions and the administration chooses what obligations are to be met.

Seriously, Flopper, you are saying wow, they might not send out welfare checks like social security, let's downgrade their debt? But wait, you're not saying we would fail to make debt payments. But that's why they downgraded our debt. Say what?

As I said, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. When you figure out what your argument is, let me know. Maybe you and Toro can huddle because he can't figure out what he's actually saying either on this.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength.

No, I did not say that the government might not send out welfare checks just as I did say the government will default on our debt.

What am saying is servicing debt is only one of government's obligations. If congress does not act to raise the debt limit, which I think they will do, our government will default on some of it's obligations. I have no idea which ones. It could be payments due on contracts, Medicaid payments to the states, Medicare reimbursements, payments to states for road construction, or other payments. It could be shutdowns of government agencies. Because of the political impact and economic repercussions, I think delaying Social Security, VA, welfare checks, or debt service would be at the bottom of the list of alternatives.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The United States defaulted on some Treasury bills in April 1979 we paid a steep price for stiffing bondholders, because the interest rates doubled. They went from 8% to 16% & it took 8 long years before rates came back down to 8%. This would destroy the US economy if it happened today. Yet we now are intentionally going to default. Bondholders will certainly be more pissed about that than they were for the mistake in 1979.

Do you realize that that would mean that you'd actually make money with money in a bank account. Right now the interest earned on even a money market account is barely 1%. I remember when money market accounts were earning well over 10%. Sorry, if interest rates go up that is not always a bad thing.

No kidding. I would LOVE to get more than 1% on a CD!

 

[Flopper]

The United States defaulted on some Treasury bills in April 1979 we paid a steep price for stiffing bondholders, because the interest rates doubled. They went from 8% to 16% & it took 8 long years before rates came back down to 8%. This would destroy the US economy if it happened today. Yet we now are intentionally going to default. Bondholders will certainly be more pissed about that than they were for the mistake in 1979.

The Treasury blamed this delay on an unprecedented volume of participation by small investors, on failure of Congress to act in a timely fashion on the debt ceiling legislation in April, and on an unanticipated failure of word processing equipment used to prepare check schedules.

I thing we put way to much faith in the ability of the treasury to go from an unlimited line of credit to no credit at all.

The day the US defaulted on treasury bills - CSMonitor.com

 

[KissMy]

TEA Party idiots playing with debt payments.

[YouTube]Fh2_6ecWFow[/YouTube]

 

[kaz]

S&P made it pretty clear that one of the reason for downgrade was the ineffectiveness of American political parties.

"More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness,
stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political
institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic
challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a
negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011."
S&P | United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To 'AA+' Due To Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative | Americas

Yes, we do have the revenue to service our debt. However, servicing debt is not the only obligation the government has. Laws passed by congress has obligated the government to provide a multitude of services. When the congress doesn't act on either the budget or the debt ceiling, then the administration must decide which obligations are to be met and which aren't. Congress by lack of action chooses to let the administration make the decisions and the administration chooses what obligations are to be met.

Seriously, Flopper, you are saying wow, they might not send out welfare checks like social security, let's downgrade their debt? But wait, you're not saying we would fail to make debt payments. But that's why they downgraded our debt. Say what?

As I said, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. When you figure out what your argument is, let me know. Maybe you and Toro can huddle because he can't figure out what he's actually saying either on this.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength.

No, I did not say that the government might not send out welfare checks just as I did say the government will default on our debt.

What am saying is servicing debt is only one of government's obligations. If congress does not act to raise the debt limit, which I think they will do, our government will default on some of it's obligations. I have no idea which ones. It could be payments due on contracts, Medicaid payments to the states, Medicare reimbursements, payments to states for road construction, or other payments. It could be shutdowns of government agencies. Because of the political impact and economic repercussions, I think delaying Social Security, VA, welfare checks, or debt service would be at the bottom of the list of alternatives.

You joined this conversation by responding to my post on downgrading our debt by saying that it's not that we would not be able to, but that our politicians would chose not to pay it. None of the things you just listed that could happen would cause our debt to be downgraded.

So when you said that, what did you mean because everything you are saying here contradicts what you said in the beginning of our discussion. I keep going back to how you got in the discussion, you keep not remembering it. They would not downgrade our debt because our government doesn't spend enough money. In fact, that our government is spending too much money is WHY they downgraded our debt in the first place. Too meaning deficits and total debt as a percent of GDP.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

 

[Flopper]

Seriously, Flopper, you are saying wow, they might not send out welfare checks like social security, let's downgrade their debt? But wait, you're not saying we would fail to make debt payments. But that's why they downgraded our debt. Say what?

As I said, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. When you figure out what your argument is, let me know. Maybe you and Toro can huddle because he can't figure out what he's actually saying either on this.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength.

No, I did not say that the government might not send out welfare checks just as I did say the government will default on our debt.

What am saying is servicing debt is only one of government's obligations. If congress does not act to raise the debt limit, which I think they will do, our government will default on some of it's obligations. I have no idea which ones. It could be payments due on contracts, Medicaid payments to the states, Medicare reimbursements, payments to states for road construction, or other payments. It could be shutdowns of government agencies. Because of the political impact and economic repercussions, I think delaying Social Security, VA, welfare checks, or debt service would be at the bottom of the list of alternatives.

You joined this conversation by responding to my post on downgrading our debt by saying that it's not that we would not be able to, but that our politicians would chose not to pay it. None of the things you just listed that could happen would cause our debt to be downgraded.

So when you said that, what did you mean because everything you are saying here contradicts what you said in the beginning of our discussion. I keep going back to how you got in the discussion, you keep not remembering it. They would not downgrade our debt because our government doesn't spend enough money. In fact, that our government is spending too much money is WHY they downgraded our debt in the first place. Too meaning deficits and total debt as a percent of GDP.

If you want to continue, could you please restate your premises and conclusion. After reading your posts, I'm not sure what we're debating.

 

[Redfish]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

An honest unbiased media would explain this, but they do not.

Seriously, snake. Do you think a state controlled media is good or bad? Or if you don't like the words "state controlled" insert biased or partisan.

Isn't journalism about putting out the facts and letting the people decide?

 

[Geaux4it]

We could have Bozo the clown as President and the media would lay off as long as he is a lib

Wait, we currently have that

-Geaux

 

[KissMy]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

It's a plot to stick us with another unfunded mandate. We will all be forced by the IRS to pay Wallstreet more.

Repeal it don't just defund it.

 

[EriktheRed]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

An honest unbiased media would explain this, but they do not.

Seriously, snake. Do you think a state controlled media is good or bad? Or if you don't like the words "state controlled" insert biased or partisan.

Isn't journalism about putting out the facts and letting the people decide?

The very fact that you use the term "state-controlled" says something right there.

 

[Mr. Sauerkraut]

most of you wish a general new start.

maybe that´s the chance.

Let everything crash to the ground. Then you have the chance to renew again.

 

[Redfish]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

An honest unbiased media would explain this, but they do not.

Seriously, snake. Do you think a state controlled media is good or bad? Or if you don't like the words "state controlled" insert biased or partisan.

Isn't journalism about putting out the facts and letting the people decide?

The very fact that you use the term "state-controlled" says something right there.

Yes, it does and its very scary. Why do you think that the liberal media uses the same talking points as the democrats every day of the week?

Obama and his cronies would like nothing better than to silence talk radio, Fox, and any commentator who dares disagree with him. Pravda does it, North Korea and china do it. If you control the media message you can brainwash and control the people. Why are you libs so blind that you cannot see what is happening?

 

[amrchaos]

Just remember--if the Congress do not approve the debt limit, then paying the bond holders become another political for both Democrats and Republicans.


Now imagine yourself a bond holder--which would you prefer--the US Treasury authorized to pay you?
Or a Tea Party conservative saying they will pay you

I thought so.

 

[EriktheRed]

An honest unbiased media would explain this, but they do not.

Seriously, snake. Do you think a state controlled media is good or bad? Or if you don't like the words "state controlled" insert biased or partisan.

Isn't journalism about putting out the facts and letting the people decide?

The very fact that you use the term "state-controlled" says something right there.

Yes, it does and its very scary. Why do you think that the liberal media uses the same talking points as the democrats every day of the week?

Obama and his cronies would like nothing better than to silence talk radio, Fox, and any commentator who dares disagree with him. Pravda does it, North Korea and china do it. If you control the media message you can brainwash and control the people. Why are you libs so blind that you cannot see what is happening?

Because you're either paranoid or just being a troll.

 

[hangover]

When default happens this forum will cease to exist. So with the internet. And most will lose their computers, jobs, homes and most everything they have. It's going to make the great depression look like a picnic. Remember I told you so.

 

[RandallFlagg]

When default happens this forum will cease to exist. So with the internet. And most will lose their computers, jobs, homes and most everything they have. It's going to make the great depression look like a picnic. Remember I told you so.

Good Lord..........


Didn't we hear the same thing about the sequester?


Relax. The sun will come up - Babies will laugh, Liberals will cry, and the world will continue to function. If you MUST be paranoid - be afraid of the end of QE. THEN we will find out what "trouble" is.

 

[The T]

The support for not funding ACA is growing while the GOP and TeaP popularities continue to plummet.

Utahns have Lee upside down 56 to 44%.

It's a plot to stick us with another unfunded mandate. We will all be forced by the IRS to pay Wallstreet more.

Repeal it don't just defund it.

Indeed. Get RID of it totally. It's a failure already. 500+M$ for a website that is unfriendly, and doesn't work...after 3 years...WE are told "it needs tweaking"...

Hell, they've been 'tweaking' the Constitution for 100 years now.