Law...Not Race

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Oct 6, 2008
124,897
60,268
2,300
Brooklyn, NY
In a recent, fairly long, thread about the Arbery case, one could not walk away without feeling that far too many saw it as race central to the question of guilt or innocence.



In today's National Review, the author makes the same argument.

1. "The Reality of Ahmaud Arbery’s Murder vs. the Race Obsession of Biden’s DOJ
Georgia’s successful state prosecution, which relied on hard evidence, not woke-left demagoguery, illustrates the politicized nature of the Justice Department’s civil-rights indictment.
The media-Democrat complex’s obsession notwithstanding, the killing of Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, was not a case about race. It was a case about tragic mistakes of law, which led to an unjustifiable homicide.

2. The guilty verdicts are not only the appropriate resolution of this mournful case, they highlight the injustice — more specifically, the now-familiar racialized demagoguery — of the Biden Justice Department’s indictment of the same defendants on transparently political “civil rights” grounds.


3. There were real reasons to suspect that Arbery could have been involved in property theft at a lot under construction in Satilla Shores, a neighborhood in the coastal city of Brunswick, Ga. Police were aware that he had been caught on surveillance cameras trespassing on the site several times prior to his fateful appearance there on February 23, 2020. One of the defendants had seen him there late at night, acting furtively.

4. Still, Arbery was far from the only person who trespassed through the site, and there was no probable cause that he had stolen anything. Consequently, there was no basis for the three defendants — Travis McMichael, his father Greg McMichael, and their neighbor William “Roddy” Bryan — to assault and try to detain Arbery and to try to effect a citizen’s arrest by cornering him in their trucks as he tried to run away.

5. Given that Travis McMichael was thus provoking Arbery by this legally insupportable onslaught, he was not justified in using force — much less lethal force — in the final confrontation, shooting Arbery to death with his Remington rifle. Greg McMichael and Roddy Bryan clearly aided and abetted Travis. And the elder McMichael, a former cop and district attorney’s office investigator who instigated the improvident chase, acted shamefully in leaning on his law-enforcement connections to discourage a full investigation."



This was the erudite post I would have wished for in the earlier thread, rather than the shrill cries of "Racist!!!!" aimed at any who didn't roll over and advance the Democrat propaganda, that whites simply wish to kill innocent black folks.
 
On the other hand,

  • If he had been white, interested neighbors would have, at most, told him to stay the hell away from the residential construction site. They wouldn't have gone after him with guns.
  • He was no way dressed or equipped to steal construction materials, even if he wanted to.
  • There was no report of any significant theft of materials from the site.
  • You don't defend PROPERTY with lethal force. Human lives, yes, property, HELL NO.
As crazy as I am, even I would have been pissed if these guys had been acquitted. They were guilty as hell, and everybody knows it.
 
On the other hand,

  • If he had been white, interested neighbors would have, at most, told him to stay the hell away from the residential construction site. They wouldn't have gone after him with guns.
  • He was no way dressed or equipped to steal construction materials, even if he wanted to.
  • There was no report of any significant theft of materials from the site.
  • You don't defend PROPERTY with lethal force. Human lives, yes, property, HELL NO.
As crazy as I am, even I would have been pissed if these guys had been acquitted. They were guilty as hell, and everybody knows it.
If it is MY property, I do have the right to use lethal force to protect it. I don't really have a problem with anything other you said.
 
On the other hand,

  • If he had been white, interested neighbors would have, at most, told him to stay the hell away from the residential construction site. They wouldn't have gone after him with guns.
  • He was no way dressed or equipped to steal construction materials, even if he wanted to.
  • There was no report of any significant theft of materials from the site.
  • You don't defend PROPERTY with lethal force. Human lives, yes, property, HELL NO.
As crazy as I am, even I would have been pissed if these guys had been acquitted. They were guilty as hell, and everybody knows it.


  • "There was no report of any significant theft of materials from the site."
"Sheffield hit on the important legal and evidentiary points. Felony burglary does not require that any property be actually stolen, for example, so all the State’s talk about Arbery not having stolen property in his possession was completely irrelevant."


  • "You don't defend PROPERTY with lethal force. Human lives, yes, property, HELL NO."
  • Of course you do. It's the basis of the 'broken windows' concept of policing that cleaned up NYC.
Now tell me how you approve of this:


One of the truly 'great' Liberal ideas is to pay homage to felons, and allow criminals to loot store.....but only up to about $1,000



Riots, arson, anarchism, assaults, lawlessness rewarded, neither lives nor property safe.....under Democrat governance.
One wonders why citizens pay taxes, and what they expect from government, when the above is the norm from Democrats officials.



Raleigh Police Chief Cassandra Deck-Brown has a particularly "odd" view of policing.
She isn't inclined to do it.

Very much like the Democrat mayor of Chicago.

At 14:30 “I will not put an officer in harms way to protect the property….”


Chesa Boudin, the new DA elected by San Francisco:

“SAN FRANCISCO'S NEW DA WILL NOT PROSECUTE PROSTITUTION, PUBLIC URINATION CASES: 'WE MUST THINK DIFFERENTLY'
Responding to the ACLU questionnaire published in the San Francisco Chronicle before the election, Boudin said: "We will not prosecute cases involving quality-of-life crimes. Crimes such as public camping, offering or soliciting sex, public urination, blocking a sidewalk, etc., should not and will not be prosecuted."
San Francisco's new DA will not prosecute prostitution, public urination cases: "We must think differently"

This is what Democrats believe is the sort of city you should live in.



....one more slap in the face of the law-abiding citizens who pay taxes on actual earnings:

"Should All Thefts Be Prosecuted? Dallas County’s District Attorney Says No
An initiative by John Creuzot is stopping prosecutions for theft of personal items worth less than $750."
Should All Thefts Be Prosecuted? Dallas County’s District Attorney Says No | Houston Public Media

Same in Seattle.....Democrat constituent are given a quota amount they can steal from you.
 
In a recent, fairly long, thread about the Arbery case, one could not walk away without feeling that far too many saw it as race central to the question of guilt or innocence.



In today's National Review, the author makes the same argument.

1. "The Reality of Ahmaud Arbery’s Murder vs. the Race Obsession of Biden’s DOJ
Georgia’s successful state prosecution, which relied on hard evidence, not woke-left demagoguery, illustrates the politicized nature of the Justice Department’s civil-rights indictment.
The media-Democrat complex’s obsession notwithstanding, the killing of Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, was not a case about race. It was a case about tragic mistakes of law, which led to an unjustifiable homicide.

2. The guilty verdicts are not only the appropriate resolution of this mournful case, they highlight the injustice — more specifically, the now-familiar racialized demagoguery — of the Biden Justice Department’s indictment of the same defendants on transparently political “civil rights” grounds.


3. There were real reasons to suspect that Arbery could have been involved in property theft at a lot under construction in Satilla Shores, a neighborhood in the coastal city of Brunswick, Ga. Police were aware that he had been caught on surveillance cameras trespassing on the site several times prior to his fateful appearance there on February 23, 2020. One of the defendants had seen him there late at night, acting furtively.

4. Still, Arbery was far from the only person who trespassed through the site, and there was no probable cause that he had stolen anything. Consequently, there was no basis for the three defendants — Travis McMichael, his father Greg McMichael, and their neighbor William “Roddy” Bryan — to assault and try to detain Arbery and to try to effect a citizen’s arrest by cornering him in their trucks as he tried to run away.

5. Given that Travis McMichael was thus provoking Arbery by this legally insupportable onslaught, he was not justified in using force — much less lethal force — in the final confrontation, shooting Arbery to death with his Remington rifle. Greg McMichael and Roddy Bryan clearly aided and abetted Travis. And the elder McMichael, a former cop and district attorney’s office investigator who instigated the improvident chase, acted shamefully in leaning on his law-enforcement connections to discourage a full investigation."



This was the erudite post I would have wished for in the earlier thread, rather than the shrill cries of "Racist!!!!" aimed at any who didn't roll over and advance the Democrat propaganda, that whites simply wish to kill innocent black folks.
I think this illustrates a failure of logic and a failure of law.

First, the law. A citizen's arrest is a law that should be reevaluated because clearly, people don't understand how it is applied. A citizen cannot use lethal force in the enforcement of a citizen's arrest. Which directly leads to the failure in logic.

Two good ole boys in pickup trucks trying to stop a black man in the south leads the black guy to only one logical conclusion. If I don't run, I'm a dead man.

Anyone with any sense could have predicted what Abrey's reaction would be.

The jury reached the correct conclusion that this was murder. Citizens' arrest does not authorize the use of force to detain a person against their will, let alone shoot them.
 
These dirtbags have to be even MORE brainless than Biden (if thats even possible) to think a man out jogging is "casing a joint" for stealing stuff (without a vehicle, without tools, and without being sneaky)!!!!!

Or......if he was jogging.


" Felony burglary does not require that any property be actually stolen, for example, so all the State’s talk about Arbery not having stolen property in his possession was completely irrelevant. Similarly, there was never any evidence introduced at any time in the trial that Arbery ever recreationally jogged in that neighborhood—not a single family member, friend, or resident of the community testified to anything like that."


Is this a point that needed to be discussed outside of race?
 
I think this illustrates a failure of logic and a failure of law.

First, the law. A citizen's arrest is a law that should be reevaluated because clearly, people don't understand how it is applied. A citizen cannot use lethal force in the enforcement of a citizen's arrest. Which directly leads to the failure in logic.

Two good ole boys in pickup trucks trying to stop a black man in the south leads the black guy to only one logical conclusion. If I don't run, I'm a dead man.

Anyone with any sense could have predicted what Abrey's reaction would be.

The jury reached the correct conclusion that this was murder. Citizens' arrest does not authorize the use of force to detain a person against their will, let alone shoot them.


The citizen's arrest law has been revoked as of May.

I can see taking either side.
 

"Alan Dershowitz's stark warning: Justice system becoming infected by critical race theory​

"Trials and justice have ceased to be about individual justice," famed law professor says. "They're about identity politics."

....Dershowitz deplored the growing trend in recent criminal cases toward political agendas supplanting the neutral consideration of evidence and law that has been the lifeblood of U.S. jurisprudence for more than two centuries.

"It's becoming much more responsive, unfortunately, to critical race theory, basically, everything's about race," Dershowitz told the John Solomon Reports podcast in an interview aired this week. "Everything's about race or politics.

"The justice system has stopped being about is this particular person innocent or guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the evidence and based on the law. People today are rooting, cheering for verdicts. They want verdicts to reflect their narrative. They want verdicts to prove their way of looking at the world. Trials and justice have ceased to be about individual justice. They're about identity politics."
 
To me, it's a question of the commission of a crime, and trespass just doesn't cut it as serious enough for a citizen's arrest. People do that sometimes, looking through a house that is under construction. Maybe Arbery was looking around for anything he could steal, he apparently did visit that house a number of times. But unless he's carrying something that looks like it could have value then you've got no cause to assume a crime has been committed. I have heard nothing to indicate he had anything in his possession that might have been stolen property, so in my book there are no grounds at all for a citizen's arrest.
 

"Alan Dershowitz's stark warning: Justice system becoming infected by critical race theory​

"Trials and justice have ceased to be about individual justice," famed law professor says. "They're about identity politics."

....Dershowitz deplored the growing trend in recent criminal cases toward political agendas supplanting the neutral consideration of evidence and law that has been the lifeblood of U.S. jurisprudence for more than two centuries.

"It's becoming much more responsive, unfortunately, to critical race theory, basically, everything's about race," Dershowitz told the John Solomon Reports podcast in an interview aired this week. "Everything's about race or politics.

"The justice system has stopped being about is this particular person innocent or guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the evidence and based on the law. People today are rooting, cheering for verdicts. They want verdicts to reflect their narrative. They want verdicts to prove their way of looking at the world. Trials and justice have ceased to be about individual justice. They're about identity politics."

I think this is absolutely true, and IMHO it's gotten to the point where jury members and witnesses are being intimidated, and even some judges are allowing their personal biases to influence their rulings. I'm thinking of that federal judge in the Mike Flynn case that wouldn't let the case die even though the prosecution dropped the case. That was more about politics than race, but justice is supposed to be blind. The statues of Lady Justice show her as blindfolded, and it's for a reason. But that ain't the way it is in reality, and it appears to be getting worse.
 
To me, it's a question of the commission of a crime, and trespass just doesn't cut it as serious enough for a citizen's arrest. People do that sometimes, looking through a house that is under construction. Maybe Arbery was looking around for anything he could steal, he apparently did visit that house a number of times. But unless he's carrying something that looks like it could have value then you've got no cause to assume a crime has been committed. I have heard nothing to indicate he had anything in his possession that might have been stolen property, so in my book there are no grounds at all for a citizen's arrest.


That's fine.
Certainly discusses the case......and doesn't mention race.
 
If it is MY property, I do have the right to use lethal force to protect it. I don't really have a problem with anything other you said.
True on your property, otherwise within reason of the laws, but when it moves to the street, then the law's have to be recognized for that also correct ?
 
In a recent, fairly long, thread about the Arbery case, one could not walk away without feeling that far too many saw it as race central to the question of guilt or innocence.



In today's National Review, the author makes the same argument.

1. "The Reality of Ahmaud Arbery’s Murder vs. the Race Obsession of Biden’s DOJ
Georgia’s successful state prosecution, which relied on hard evidence, not woke-left demagoguery, illustrates the politicized nature of the Justice Department’s civil-rights indictment.
The media-Democrat complex’s obsession notwithstanding, the killing of Arbery, a 25-year-old black man, was not a case about race. It was a case about tragic mistakes of law, which led to an unjustifiable homicide.

2. The guilty verdicts are not only the appropriate resolution of this mournful case, they highlight the injustice — more specifically, the now-familiar racialized demagoguery — of the Biden Justice Department’s indictment of the same defendants on transparently political “civil rights” grounds.


3. There were real reasons to suspect that Arbery could have been involved in property theft at a lot under construction in Satilla Shores, a neighborhood in the coastal city of Brunswick, Ga. Police were aware that he had been caught on surveillance cameras trespassing on the site several times prior to his fateful appearance there on February 23, 2020. One of the defendants had seen him there late at night, acting furtively.

4. Still, Arbery was far from the only person who trespassed through the site, and there was no probable cause that he had stolen anything. Consequently, there was no basis for the three defendants — Travis McMichael, his father Greg McMichael, and their neighbor William “Roddy” Bryan — to assault and try to detain Arbery and to try to effect a citizen’s arrest by cornering him in their trucks as he tried to run away.

5. Given that Travis McMichael was thus provoking Arbery by this legally insupportable onslaught, he was not justified in using force — much less lethal force — in the final confrontation, shooting Arbery to death with his Remington rifle. Greg McMichael and Roddy Bryan clearly aided and abetted Travis. And the elder McMichael, a former cop and district attorney’s office investigator who instigated the improvident chase, acted shamefully in leaning on his law-enforcement connections to discourage a full investigation."



This was the erudite post I would have wished for in the earlier thread, rather than the shrill cries of "Racist!!!!" aimed at any who didn't roll over and advance the Democrat propaganda, that whites simply wish to kill innocent black folks.
Shut the fuck up you stupid ass bitch!

Arbery was targeted because he was black,the killer spoke a racial slur over his body after he killed him. When they called 911 their description of the emergency was that a black man was running.

3 white men did kill an innocent black man. Racism exists, these men were racists and your Asian ass best be glad people are fighting to end it.
 
That's fine.
Certainly discusses the case......and doesn't mention race.
Race was why he was killed. You can't avoid that no matter how badly you want to suck white racist ass.
 
Shut the fuck up you stupid ass bitch!

Arbery was targeted because he was black,the killer spoke a racial slur over his body after he killed him. When they called 911 their description of the emergency was that a black man was running.

3 white men did kill an innocent black man. Racism exists, these men were racists and your Asian ass best be glad people are fighting to end it.
What kind of civilized response was this ? Then you attempt to use her race to suggest that she had best join up before the white man comes for her next eh ??? You need help.
 

Forum List

Back
Top