CDZ Law abiding citizens should be able to carry a gun, open or concealed in any state...

[danielpalos]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

Then you should be able to show that as guns have increased accidental deaths have as well....

Except that is not the case.

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

I have worked in hosptals almost all of my adult life-------I have seen mothers lying on the emergency room floor screaming (some kid found dad's gun)

Yeah.......out of 357 million guns in private hands about 50 kids a year have that happen.........and the relevance to this thread would be?

The back yard swimming pool is much more likely to kill your child than your gun and therefore we should outlaw swimming pools?

Back yard pools can be required to have safety devices that make them inaccessible to those not responsible enough to have adult access.

And yet they still kill far more children.

More to the point, guns already have such regulations as well. Those that are not responsible are bared from owning a firearm and firearm design and sales are heavily regulated.

how well are safety regulations enforced for pools as compared to gun control laws for guns, and ammunition; but not for flippers or life preservers.

 

[2aguy]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And here are something called facts.....and statistics that show you are wrong...

First, non fatal gun accident rates as we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s...and 4.7 million people carrying guns in 1997 to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 and 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....

Notice...the accident rate is going down, not up....you are wrong...

Non fatal gun injury stats from 1993......

Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
1993... 104,390
1994... 89,744
1995... 84,322
1996... 69,649
1997... 64,207
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm
1998... 79,384
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

does that factor for safety regulations? guns and pools should have similarities.

Yes....you were wrong.....the actual statistics from the Centers for Disease control show you are wrong.....gun ownership and carrying guns for self defense went from 200 million to 357-400 million....from 4.7 million people carrying guns to 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....and non fatal gun accidents have gone down...as have fatal gun accidents....

 

[2aguy]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And now accidental death by gun...again, from the CDC....notice again that as more Americans owned and carried guns the rate has gone down, not up......you are wrong...

http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

due to gun control laws.

You should give up while you are behind.........4.7 million people actually carried guns in 1997...now, in 2016 there are 15 million.......more people carrying guns...and all those statistics went down, not up....

You are wrong.

 

[FA_Q2]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

Then you should be able to show that as guns have increased accidental deaths have as well....

Except that is not the case.

I have worked in hosptals almost all of my adult life-------I have seen mothers lying on the emergency room floor screaming (some kid found dad's gun)

Yeah.......out of 357 million guns in private hands about 50 kids a year have that happen.........and the relevance to this thread would be?

The back yard swimming pool is much more likely to kill your child than your gun and therefore we should outlaw swimming pools?

Back yard pools can be required to have safety devices that make them inaccessible to those not responsible enough to have adult access.

And yet they still kill far more children.

More to the point, guns already have such regulations as well. Those that are not responsible are bared from owning a firearm and firearm design and sales are heavily regulated.

how well are safety regulations enforced for pools as compared to gun control laws for guns, and ammunition; but not for flippers or life preservers.

Rather irrelevant. how about you make an actual point rather than trying to drag this analogy out further.

 

[sakinago]

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

I have worked in hosptals almost all of my adult life-------I have seen mothers lying on the emergency room floor screaming (some kid found dad's gun)

Ugh this straw man again. A, this isn't happening all over all the time. Tragic when it does, but there's even more stories about toddlers drowning in pools, toddlers shoving keys into electrical sockets, kids breaking necks on trampolines, kids on bikes riding into traffic getting hit by cars, kids getting stung by bees, and so on and so forth. Now because all this happens, and at a much higher rate than kids finding and hurting themselves with guns, is that a reasonable argument to outlaw or severely restrict all the items I listed above?

I've been working in hospitals too, couldn't even tell you a case of kid finding dads gun and hurting someone, because they are very rare, but sad, cases. Most gun owners are responsible with guns around kids, and their kids are raised with a healthy fear and respect of guns. Unlike kids raised in anti gun homes, whose first reaction when finding a gun is to pick it up and play with it. The meme of kid who finds dads gun is a hyper exposed perception piece that gets pushed around much more than the hundreds of cases a day where guns and gun owners are saving people's lives and stopping crime.

 

[sakinago]

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

I have worked in hosptals almost all of my adult life-------I have seen mothers lying on the emergency room floor screaming (some kid found dad's gun)

Yeah.......out of 357 million guns in private hands about 50 kids a year have that happen.........and the relevance to this thread would be?

That you don't give a f**k about 50 kids?

Not what I said.......there are 74.2 million kids as of the 2010 census...the leading cause of death for kids is the automobile........denying the owners of 357-400 million guns based on 48 accidents a year makes no sense....don't you agree?

Who said anything about "denying" anything?
Strawman much?

Ok severely restrict, to the point of Australian gun laws...wasn't that Obamas stated goal?

 

[Muhammed]

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

We do; it is gun lovers that complain about registering for posse duty.

Can you give a few specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty"?

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

 

[danielpalos]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And here are something called facts.....and statistics that show you are wrong...

First, non fatal gun accident rates as we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s...and 4.7 million people carrying guns in 1997 to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 and 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....

Notice...the accident rate is going down, not up....you are wrong...

Non fatal gun injury stats from 1993......

Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
1993... 104,390
1994... 89,744
1995... 84,322
1996... 69,649
1997... 64,207
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm
1998... 79,384
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

does that factor for safety regulations? guns and pools should have similarities.

Yes....you were wrong.....the actual statistics from the Centers for Disease control show you are wrong.....gun ownership and carrying guns for self defense went from 200 million to 357-400 million....from 4.7 million people carrying guns to 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....and non fatal gun accidents have gone down...as have fatal gun accidents....

that study does not factor for gun control laws enacted in the mean time. apples and oranges. and quite disingenuous of the right, to claim those statistics due merely to gun loving.

 

[danielpalos]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And now accidental death by gun...again, from the CDC....notice again that as more Americans owned and carried guns the rate has gone down, not up......you are wrong...

http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824

due to gun control laws.

You should give up while you are behind.........4.7 million people actually carried guns in 1997...now, in 2016 there are 15 million.......more people carrying guns...and all those statistics went down, not up....

You are wrong.

the right complains about more gun control now, than they used to. that should be reflected in any study.

 

[danielpalos]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

Then you should be able to show that as guns have increased accidental deaths have as well....

Except that is not the case.

Yeah.......out of 357 million guns in private hands about 50 kids a year have that happen.........and the relevance to this thread would be?

The back yard swimming pool is much more likely to kill your child than your gun and therefore we should outlaw swimming pools?

Back yard pools can be required to have safety devices that make them inaccessible to those not responsible enough to have adult access.

And yet they still kill far more children.

More to the point, guns already have such regulations as well. Those that are not responsible are bared from owning a firearm and firearm design and sales are heavily regulated.

how well are safety regulations enforced for pools as compared to gun control laws for guns, and ammunition; but not for flippers or life preservers.

Rather irrelevant. how about you make an actual point rather than trying to drag this analogy out further.

that was the point; gun control laws are making it possible for more persons to be armed than before, while lowering crime statistics. it is disingenuous to say, that gun lovers are more moral when they have their guns.

 

[danielpalos]

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

We do; it is gun lovers that complain about registering for posse duty.

Can you give a few specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty"?

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

i am on the left, not the right. the right is not advocating for a posse duty registry or a militia registry, and the Only "gun" registries needed in our several and sovereign, United States.

 

[Muhammed]

This should be obvious to anyone who understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and how we catch criminals.......if you are a law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry a gun either concealed or open......in any state in the union without fear of arrest or prosecution...why don't you anti gunners get that?

We do; it is gun lovers that complain about registering for posse duty.

Can you give a few specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty"?

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

i am on the left, not the right. the right is not advocating for a posse duty registry or a militia registry, and the Only "gun" registries needed in our several and sovereign, United States.

If you cannot provide some specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty" why don't you just say so?

You statement remains a ridiculous unsupported assertion until you quote some of these gun lovers complaining about "posse duty". Personally I have never in my 49 years on this Earth heard a single person complain about "posse duty. And apparently neither have you.

 

[danielpalos]

We do; it is gun lovers that complain about registering for posse duty.

Can you give a few specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty"?

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

i am on the left, not the right. the right is not advocating for a posse duty registry or a militia registry, and the Only "gun" registries needed in our several and sovereign, United States.

If you cannot provide some specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty" why don't you just say so?

You statement remains a ridiculous unsupported assertion until you quote some of these gun lovers complaining about "posse duty". Personally I have never in my 49 years on this Earth heard a single person complain about "posse duty. And apparently neither have you.

they always complain about having to muster. i have already asked them; why not ask them yourself, instead of appealing to ignorance or a potential fallacy on my part, for political purposes?

 

[Muhammed]

Can you give a few specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty"?

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

i am on the left, not the right. the right is not advocating for a posse duty registry or a militia registry, and the Only "gun" registries needed in our several and sovereign, United States.

If you cannot provide some specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty" why don't you just say so?

You statement remains a ridiculous unsupported assertion until you quote some of these gun lovers complaining about "posse duty". Personally I have never in my 49 years on this Earth heard a single person complain about "posse duty. And apparently neither have you.

they always complain about having to muster. i have already asked them; why not ask them yourself, instead of appealing to ignorance or a potential fallacy on my part, for political purposes?

Do "they" have names or are they anonymous figments or your imagination?

 

[danielpalos]

Why no posse duty registry, so gun lovers can love their guns in public, with no problem.

You are dodging the question.

i am on the left, not the right. the right is not advocating for a posse duty registry or a militia registry, and the Only "gun" registries needed in our several and sovereign, United States.

If you cannot provide some specific examples of "gun lovers" complaining about "posse duty" why don't you just say so?

You statement remains a ridiculous unsupported assertion until you quote some of these gun lovers complaining about "posse duty". Personally I have never in my 49 years on this Earth heard a single person complain about "posse duty. And apparently neither have you.

they always complain about having to muster. i have already asked them; why not ask them yourself, instead of appealing to ignorance or a potential fallacy on my part, for political purposes?

Do "they" have names or are they anonymous figments or your imagination?

haven't done your own research yet? how typical of the right wing.

 

[FA_Q2]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

Then you should be able to show that as guns have increased accidental deaths have as well....

Except that is not the case.

The back yard swimming pool is much more likely to kill your child than your gun and therefore we should outlaw swimming pools?

Back yard pools can be required to have safety devices that make them inaccessible to those not responsible enough to have adult access.

And yet they still kill far more children.

More to the point, guns already have such regulations as well. Those that are not responsible are bared from owning a firearm and firearm design and sales are heavily regulated.

how well are safety regulations enforced for pools as compared to gun control laws for guns, and ammunition; but not for flippers or life preservers.

Rather irrelevant. how about you make an actual point rather than trying to drag this analogy out further.

that was the point; gun control laws are making it possible for more persons to be armed than before, while lowering crime statistics. it is disingenuous to say, that gun lovers are more moral when they have their guns.

Gun control laws have been relaxed rather than strengthened.

It is not gun control laws that are lowering crime statistics. I would argue that gun control laws are almost irrelevant to crime statistics in general.

 

[FA_Q2]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And here are something called facts.....and statistics that show you are wrong...

First, non fatal gun accident rates as we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s...and 4.7 million people carrying guns in 1997 to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 and 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....

Notice...the accident rate is going down, not up....you are wrong...

Non fatal gun injury stats from 1993......

Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
1993... 104,390
1994... 89,744
1995... 84,322
1996... 69,649
1997... 64,207
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm
1998... 79,384
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

does that factor for safety regulations? guns and pools should have similarities.

Yes....you were wrong.....the actual statistics from the Centers for Disease control show you are wrong.....gun ownership and carrying guns for self defense went from 200 million to 357-400 million....from 4.7 million people carrying guns to 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....and non fatal gun accidents have gone down...as have fatal gun accidents....

that study does not factor for gun control laws enacted in the mean time. apples and oranges. and quite disingenuous of the right, to claim those statistics due merely to gun loving.

Over that time period gun control laws have been rolled back - not forward.

 

[2aguy]

Certainly, it would be nice to have the greatest amount of free choice and liberty for adults; no prohibition, no identity cards or controls, no pollution and poisoning imposed upon the innocent, etc. Rational people know that carrying firearms all the time is unnecessary (with tendencies to paranoia) and dangerous.

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And here are something called facts.....and statistics that show you are wrong...

First, non fatal gun accident rates as we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s...and 4.7 million people carrying guns in 1997 to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 and 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....

Notice...the accident rate is going down, not up....you are wrong...

Non fatal gun injury stats from 1993......

Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
1993... 104,390
1994... 89,744
1995... 84,322
1996... 69,649
1997... 64,207
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm
1998... 79,384
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

does that factor for safety regulations? guns and pools should have similarities.

Yes....you were wrong.....the actual statistics from the Centers for Disease control show you are wrong.....gun ownership and carrying guns for self defense went from 200 million to 357-400 million....from 4.7 million people carrying guns to 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....and non fatal gun accidents have gone down...as have fatal gun accidents....

that study does not factor for gun control laws enacted in the mean time. apples and oranges. and quite disingenuous of the right, to claim those statistics due merely to gun loving.

Twit..ot isn't a study..it os simply counting bodies........amd counting guns bought and permits handed out........our gun ownership level has increased....our gun murder rate went down 47%.....our gun accident rate both fatal and non fatal went down....proving that the basic point of the anti gun movement...that more guns mean more crime...os a lie......their entire reason for existence is a lie.

 

[danielpalos]

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

Then you should be able to show that as guns have increased accidental deaths have as well....

Except that is not the case.

Back yard pools can be required to have safety devices that make them inaccessible to those not responsible enough to have adult access.

And yet they still kill far more children.

More to the point, guns already have such regulations as well. Those that are not responsible are bared from owning a firearm and firearm design and sales are heavily regulated.

how well are safety regulations enforced for pools as compared to gun control laws for guns, and ammunition; but not for flippers or life preservers.

Rather irrelevant. how about you make an actual point rather than trying to drag this analogy out further.

that was the point; gun control laws are making it possible for more persons to be armed than before, while lowering crime statistics. it is disingenuous to say, that gun lovers are more moral when they have their guns.

Gun control laws have been relaxed rather than strengthened.

It is not gun control laws that are lowering crime statistics. I would argue that gun control laws are almost irrelevant to crime statistics in general.

in some cases; but, overall, safety regulations are more prevalent, and gun lovers whine about gun control laws, even in modern times.

 

[danielpalos]

not to mention, an increase in accidents due to more, rather than less, non-well regulated militia having access to guns.

And here are something called facts.....and statistics that show you are wrong...

First, non fatal gun accident rates as we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s...and 4.7 million people carrying guns in 1997 to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 and 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....

Notice...the accident rate is going down, not up....you are wrong...

Non fatal gun injury stats from 1993......

Nonfatal and Fatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1997
1993... 104,390
1994... 89,744
1995... 84,322
1996... 69,649
1997... 64,207
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm
1998... 79,384
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

does that factor for safety regulations? guns and pools should have similarities.

Yes....you were wrong.....the actual statistics from the Centers for Disease control show you are wrong.....gun ownership and carrying guns for self defense went from 200 million to 357-400 million....from 4.7 million people carrying guns to 15 million people carrying guns for self defense....and non fatal gun accidents have gone down...as have fatal gun accidents....

that study does not factor for gun control laws enacted in the mean time. apples and oranges. and quite disingenuous of the right, to claim those statistics due merely to gun loving.

Over that time period gun control laws have been rolled back - not forward.

Not the more effective gun control laws; those haven't been repealed.