Kyl;e Rittenhouse will be a billionaire by the time his lawyers are done.

[JoeB131]

For the comparison to be apt it would have be a situation where the plane (weapon) is outlawed

A plane isn't a weapon.
A weapon is actually a weapon. It's designed to kill people. It has no other purpose.

Dismissed.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

A plane isn't a weapon.
A weapon is actually a weapon. It's designed to kill people. It has no other purpose.

Dismissed.

irrelevant. A plane is not designed as a weapon but they were used to kill over three thousand people in one day nevertheless.

First off, on the one hand you say "keep guns out of the hands of crazies" and on the other you say anyone who owns an AR is crazy. What this really means is that you want ARs outlawed altogether and "crazies" is just a talking point. It also means that, once again, you contradict yourself.

So, "keep these guns out of the hands of 'crazies'" while also saying all AR owners are crazies poses a problem for your argument because the majority of these "crazies" don't use them to kill. It either means that 1.) Owning an AR does not, in fact, mean one is crazy or, 2.) Craziness is not a factor in mass shootings with ARs.

Secondly, when I show that ARs were used in six out of the ten worst mass shootings, you seize on this as an "AHA!" moment. However, it only means they were used in slightly more than half of the worst shootings. Pistols, shotguns and other non-AR weapons have still killed more people in mass shootings than ARs.

Dismissed.

 

[Flash]

A plane isn't a weapon.
A weapon is actually a weapon. It's designed to kill people. It has no other purpose.

Dismissed.

You are confused Moon Bat.

I'm going to the rifle range tomorrow morning. I'm taking three of my ARs with me.

The purpose of those ARs is to provide recreation. Putting holes in paper.

Just because you are a pussy that is afraid of those Black Rifles don't mean everybody else are.

The purpose of Kyle's AR was to provide self defense. That is good thing or else those BLM insurrectionists would have killed him.

 

[JoeB131]

irrelevant. A plane is not designed as a weapon

Exactly it's not designed as a weapon. guns are. Assault rifles are specifically designed to kill a lot of people.

but they were used to kill over three thousand people in one day nevertheless.

One time... 21 years ago. Compared to Guns, that kill 43,000 people every year. That's like 14 9/11's every year.

But to compare. When we had ONE TIME planes being used like that, we started x-raying every fool who walked into an airport, we covered them with bomb smelling dogs, we make people take their shoes off because one idiot lit his shoes on fire. We strip search people with Islamic sounding names, because. We put armed air marshalls on the planes and we put steel doors in the cockpits.

Yet the carnage goes on and on and on, because unlike the Airlines, who lost money as a result of 9/11, the gunmaker keep making money of the carnage. Heck, they WELCOME the carnage, because for every mass shooter or thug who commits a crime with a gun, you get 10 small-dicked white people who rush out to buy guns because they are scared, and no one will tell them a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

Secondly, when I show that ARs were used in six out of the ten worst mass shootings, you seize on this as an "AHA!" moment. However, it only means they were used in slightly more than half of the worst shootings.

I guess, if you cherry pick only the worst 10. But removing six out of ten, that's actual progress.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Exactly it's not designed as a weapon. guns are. Assault rifles are specifically designed to kill a lot of people.

Problem is, ARs are not assault weapons. Assault weapons are fully automatic.

One time... 21 years ago. Compared to Guns, that kill 43,000 people every year. That's like 14 9/11's every year.

The guns aren't killing anyone. Also, I find it interesting that you're always pointing out how American gun crime is so much higher than most other countries yet you cite worldwide gun crime statistics.

Another example of your duplicitousness.

But to compare. When we had ONE TIME planes being used like that, we started x-raying every fool who walked into an airport, we covered them with bomb smelling dogs, we make people take their shoes off because one idiot lit his shoes on fire. We strip search people with Islamic sounding names, because. We put armed air marshalls on the planes and we put steel doors in the cockpits.

And? They employed stricter security measures for boarding. So what? The difference is that no one ever suggested banning airplanes.

You're talking about two entirely different approaches based on entirely different principles for dealing with the same problem of loss of life. In one approach we make it harder for criminals or, more accurately, people with malicious intent, to gain control of the weapon (plane) and the other approach proposes doing away with the weapon altogether.

I'm all for making it harder for criminals and people with no respect for the law to circumvent the lawful process to possess firearms. But when you deviate from that approach to paint all firearm or AR owners as being insane, it becomes clear that your position is merely contempt for law abiding gun owners and enthusiasts and the subculture, not stopping loss of life.

Yet the carnage goes on and on and on, because unlike the Airlines, who lost money as a result of 9/11, the gunmaker keep making money of the carnage. Heck, they WELCOME the carnage, because for every mass shooter or thug who commits a crime with a gun, you get 10 small-dicked white people who rush out to buy guns because they are scared, and no one will tell them a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

So? The fact remains that the "10 small-dicked white people" are not the ones murdering people with them.

I guess, if you cherry pick only the worst 10. But removing six out of ten, that's actual progress.

Who removed them? All I did was point out that ARs only make up slightly better than half of the worst cases. The fact remains that where mass shootings are concerned overall (all mass shootings of ten people or more), pistols, shotguns and other non-AR weapons have killed more people.

 

[JoeB131]

The guns aren't killing anyone. Also, I find it interesting that you're always pointing out how American gun crime is so much higher than most other countries yet you cite worldwide gun crime statistics.

Nope, 43,000 is the stats for the US.

I'm all for making it harder for criminals and people with no respect for the law to circumvent the lawful process to possess firearms.

Sure you are, buddy. Sure you are...

So? The fact remains that the "10 small-dicked white people" are not the ones murdering people with them.

actually, they kind of are. Of the 43,000 gun deaths, most are suicides and domestic violence, because a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. The Drive-by gets all the press. The guy who shoots his old lady because she burned the pot-roast doesn't.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Nope, 43,000 is the stats for the US.

No, it's not. The stats say 43 per cent of gun deaths are murders (54% are suicides). The actual stats for gun murders is 19,384, not 43,000. Moron.

Sure you are, buddy. Sure you are...

Why would I want criminals to more easily get guns?

actually, they kind of are.

Sorry, doesn't work that way my friend.

Of the 43,000 gun deaths, most are suicides and domestic violence, because a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. The Drive-by gets all the press. The guy who shoots his old lady because she burned the pot-roast doesn't.

See above for actuals numbers, not the shit you pulled out of your ass.

The drive-bys get all the press but that's only half the story. Below is a graph from a CDC article from October 2021 showing firearm murders per 100,000.

As you can see, blacks commit the highest rate of firearm murders at almost 35% per 100,000. Whites commit about 2.5% to 3%.

Call me racist if you will for citing these numbers but the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[JoeB131]

No, it's not. The stats say 43 per cent of gun deaths are murders (54% are suicides). The actual stats for gun murders is 19,384, not 43,000. Moron.

I stated Gun Deaths, not gun murders...

Why would I want criminals to more easily get guns?

Well, you guys are invested in the Gun Culture, aren't you?

The drive-bys get all the press but that's only half the story. Below is a graph from a CDC article from October 2021 showing firearm murders per 100,000.

Yup, the default of the racist... it's just BLACK people dying, so we shouldn't be bothered.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

I stated Gun Deaths, not gun murders...

I thought we were talking about murders. Specifically, mass murders.

Well, you guys are invested in the Gun Culture, aren't you?

Who's "you guys"?

I'm not invested in any culture but I am invested in the firearms I have. I'm also invested in looking at gun crime logically and realistically and realistically, so called "easy access" to firearms is not a factor or at least, it is not the only factor.

Yup, the default of the racist... it's just BLACK people dying, so we shouldn't be bothered.

If you think I should be bothered by black people dying in excessive numbers by gun crime then why did you call me racist for pointing it out? In order to deal with a problem we first have to acknowledge there IS one, yes? How do you expect this problem to be solved or alleviated when people are fixated on "small-dick white people" all the time as if they are the only ones responsible for gun crime?

Blacks commit more gun crime per capita than anyone else (Hispanics aren't far behind) and that is the truth. You don't have to be racist to acknowledge it or even to point it out. Like I said before, the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not invested in any culture but I am invested in the firearms I have. I'm also invested in looking at gun crime logically and realistically and realistically, so called "easy access" to firearms is not a factor or at least, it is not the only factor.

Sure it is. If you sent the ATF door to door and confiscated every gun, you wouldn't have any gun crime. Obviously, we can't do that, but the guns are the start of the problem.

If you think I should be bothered by black people dying in excessive numbers by gun crime then why did you call me racist for pointing it out? In order to deal with a problem we first have to acknowledge there IS one, yes? How do you expect this problem to be solved or alleviated when people are fixated on "small-dick white people" all the time as if they are the only ones responsible for gun crime?

It's the small dicked white people who make the guns so easy to get... If you put the gun laws up to a vote in the Hood, we'd have gun control. When the big cities vote to have gun control like Chicago did, the TDWP rush off to the Supreme Court and get a ridiculous ruling like Heller that overturned 200 years of previous precedent.

Blacks commit more gun crime per capita than anyone else (Hispanics aren't far behind) and that is the truth. You don't have to be racist to acknowledge it or even to point it out. Like I said before, the numbers speak for themselves.

Your racism speaks for itself. If it didn't, you wouldn't fight big cities on their gun laws.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Sure it is. If you sent the ATF door to door and confiscated every gun, you wouldn't have any gun crime. Obviously, we can't do that, but the guns are the start of the problem.

Guns are a tool, nothing more. The question we should be asking ourselves is: Why are so many in this country willing to commit murder?

There is something rotten at the core of our culture and inanimate pieces of metal, wood and plastic are not it.

It's the small dicked white people who make the guns so easy to get...

By buying them?

If you put the gun laws up to a vote in the Hood, we'd have gun control.

Do you mean to tell me the "Hood" is not voting on these issues? If not, why not?

When the big cities vote to have gun control like Chicago did, the TDWP rush off to the Supreme Court and get a ridiculous ruling like Heller that overturned 200 years of previous precedent.

I don't know about this case and I don't care.

Your racism speaks for itself. If it didn't, you wouldn't fight big cities on their gun laws.

I don't keep up with that shit. I couldn't tell you the first thing about gun control initiatives in a single city in this country.

I'll ask again: If you think I should be bothered with excessive gun crime in black communities then why call me racist for bringing it up?

As a white person, am I not supposed to notice these things? I mean, blacks themselves know there's a problem with gun violence; it's the reason for Stop The Violence and other such initiatives.

The black community across the entire country came together, created an organization to try to curb cop shootings of black men and then burned and looted from one end of the cities to the other. Yet the black community as a whole refuses to come together about black men killing black men in much higher numbers and even about the innocents and children their bullets kill. It is really, truly baffling to me.

 

[JoeB131]

Guns are a tool, nothing more. The question we should be asking ourselves is: Why are so many in this country willing to commit murder?

Um, human nature... You don't think there are just as many murderous Brits or Canadians?

The reason we have so many murders is because a murder machine was RIGHT THERE. Which is why so many situations that normally would results in someone just getting a well-deserved beating end up with someone ending up with bullet holes in them instead.

Take our boy Rittenhouse. If the little Flop-Sweaty chicken shit didn't have an AR-15 to make him feel "manly", he'd have stayed the fuck home in Antioch, and the Kenosha demonstrations would have been a footnote in the TRUMP RIOTS of 2020.

Do you mean to tell me the "Hood" is not voting on these issues? If not, why not?

Actually, the VAST MAJORITY of Americans, not just the "hood" support tighter gun laws. And when they pass a sensible law, the gun industry finds ways to undermine it or challenge it.

Take Chicago. We passed some decent gun laws, and the gun industry just set up gun shops in Indiana and the Surrounding suburbs to sell to the gangbangers. One shop in Indiana sold 800 guns recovered in Chicago crimes.

This is why we need to give the victims of gun violence the ability to sue the gun makers. THey know exactly what they are doing. They just don't care.

 

[JohnDB]

Manufacturing a firearm is incredibly easy.
All it requires is some basic knowledge of how the machining of tool steel is done and basic physical engineering.

And with today's newer epoxies and ceramics...you can print one in a computer prototyping printer. No steel needed.

The knowledge and skills required to manufacture a gun are elementary at this point...which is why the public school system is in the state it currently is in.

They can't take away what you know. They can take away the largest gun manufacturers...but that leaves tons of small manufacturers.

 

[JoeB131]

Manufacturing a firearm is incredibly easy.
All it requires is some basic knowledge of how the machining of tool steel is done and basic physical engineering.

And with today's newer epoxies and ceramics...you can print one in a computer prototyping printer. No steel needed.

The knowledge and skills required to manufacture a gun are elementary at this point...which is why the public school system is in the state it currently is in.

They can't take away what you know. They can take away the largest gun manufacturers...but that leaves tons of small manufacturers.

So by your logic, we need to stop the war on drug because anyone can put a meth lab in their house.

 

[JohnDB]

So by your logic, we need to stop the war on drug because anyone can put a meth lab in their house.

That's a mischaracterization (and incongruent) parallel.

Guns are legal. You just don't like them.
ABS systems in vehicles...you like them. But exactly the same techniques and technology that makes them can be applied to manufacture firearms.

We like having good brakes on automobiles...we don't like people who abuse brakes by brake checking others.

That's a more accurate parallel. And it's congruent.

 

[JoeB131]

That's a mischaracterization (and incongruent) parallel.

Guns are legal. You just don't like them.
ABS systems in vehicles...you like them. But exactly the same techniques and technology that makes them can be applied to manufacture firearms.

We like having good brakes on automobiles...we don't like people who abuse brakes by brake checking others.

That's a more accurate parallel. And it's congruent.

Guns shouldn't be legal. There's no good reason for a Kyle Rittenhouse to be able to buy a military grade weapon, go to a riot and shoot people because he wet himself.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Um, human nature... You don't think there are just as many murderous Brits or Canadians?

No, I don't.

The reason we have so many murders is because a murder machine was RIGHT THERE. Which is why so many situations that normally would results in someone just getting a well-deserved beating end up with someone ending up with bullet holes in them instead.

Nothing is ever that simple.

I'll use one of your own narratives to counter your argument here: You said the reason anti-Asian assaults went up was due to Trump's rhetoric about China being responsible for the Corona Virus. Using the same principle of your argument about high gun crime being due to guns being abundant and readily available, this would mean anti-Asians assaults went up because either Asians are plentiful or because fists and feet are so plentiful.

Human nature is certainly a factor but one of the basic elements of human nature is to stoke or temper our moral impulses according to the current zeitgeist. People are subconsciously affected and influenced by cultural and societal mores much more than they realize. This phenomena is effected by what are called memes (no, a meme is not a humorous picture that circulates on social media. In that sense, it is a slang term). Merriam-Webster defines meme as: "An idea, behavior, style or usage that spreads from person to person within a culture."

Take our boy Rittenhouse. If the little Flop-Sweaty chicken shit didn't have an AR-15 to make him feel "manly", he'd have stayed the fuck home in Antioch,

I don't believe that for a minute. I believe he would have gone to Kenosha anyway and I believe he still would have extinguished the dumpster fire. He had already been there for hours before he had possession of the AR, helping to clean graffiti and whatnot.

and the Kenosha demonstrations would have been a footnote in the TRUMP RIOTS of 2020.

So you're saying Trump's rhetoric and actions sparked the riots and not human nature?

Actually, the VAST MAJORITY of Americans, not just the "hood" support tighter gun laws.

That's not what I asked. I asked if people in the "Hood" were not voting on it.

And when they pass a sensible law, the gun industry finds ways to undermine it or challenge it.

Which is their right as Americans.

Take Chicago. We passed some decent gun laws, and the gun industry just set up gun shops in Indiana and the Surrounding suburbs to sell to the gangbangers. One shop in Indiana sold 800 guns recovered in Chicago crimes.

Through illegal sales practices. Something you failed to mention the first time you brought that up.

This is why we need to give the victims of gun violence the ability to sue the gun makers. THey know exactly what they are doing. They just don't care.

People who choose to commit gun crime know exactly what they're doing too; they know they're breaking the law and they know they're attempting to end a human life.

 

[JoeB131]

So you're saying Trump's rhetoric and actions sparked the riots and not human nature?

Oh, I would put the blame for the 2020 riots SQUARELY on Trump's shoulders. He went out and told cops that it was fine with him if cops beat up suspects, a statement so off the wall that police cheifs felt the need to condemn it. He ended all the consent decrees Holder and Obama reached with troubled police departments.

In short, he told black people that the police could kill them with impunity on his watch.

and then THIS happened.

Through illegal sales practices. Something you failed to mention the first time you brought that up.

Then let the people killed by guns bought at that store sue... and watch how fast that gun store changes it's policies.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

A plane isn't a weapon.
A weapon is actually a weapon. It's designed to kill people. It has no other purpose.

Dismissed.

Bombers, Fighter Jets and so on.

 

[JohnDB]

Guns shouldn't be legal. There's no good reason for a Kyle Rittenhouse to be able to buy a military grade weapon, go to a riot and shoot people because he wet himself.

Ummmm
It's a founding principle that this nation was created upon.

If you don't like it there's literally hundreds of other countries to choose from for you to move into.

I don't join a Muslim mosque and then whine that that they aren't behaving like Baptists and whine until they become Christian Baptists.

I go where there are other Baptist people.

Guns are a major portion of being an American citizen where people are free to own and use them. And actually Kyle used his firearm in accordance with the very things that the framers of the Bill of Rights discussed as being important and foundational freedoms that they wanted people to people enjoy here.

In Mexico they have a foundational Freedom to Trespass. Most of its citizens don't like it...and put up barriers to stop it. But they don't change it.

Use rational arguments instead of emotionally charged crap logic...you might sound intelligent then.