CDZ Kim Davis And The Rule Of Law

Stephanie

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Jul 11, 2004
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Another look at all this. what do you all think?

SNIP:

Kim Davis And The Rule Of Law
Kim Davis views her stand as simply one of conscience rights, but it implicates many more questions about the rule of law and the democratic process.



By Richard Samuelson
September 10, 2015
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When a public official cannot enforce the law in good conscience, he or she should resign and work to change the law through regular channels. That is my first instinct with regard to Kentucky clerk Kim Davis’ refusal to issue marriage licenses. Charles Cooke made

essentially that argument in National Review. Having read and reflected further on the case, I am starting to wonder if the question is actually much more interesting.

Davis is an elected official. When the people elected her, she had no objection to the law of marriage as it existed. A couple of months ago, the Supreme Court changed the legal definition of marriage in Kentucky—or, at least, asserted its right to do so. (One could argue that the Supreme Court, in fact, only asserted that it is unconstitutional not to allow people of the same sex to marry, but since we have separations of power, it is the duty of the legislatures of our states to change their laws to comply with the court’s demands).


Since the key practical fact is that the law has been changed since Davis was elected, the logical reaction is not simply to resign, but to resign and to campaign for re-election. If the people want to elect someone who disagrees with either the Supreme Court’s power to change the definition of marriage or simply with the new definition of marriage, then she should, with the people’s blessing, continue to follow the law of the land as her district understands it, and be willing to suffer the legal consequences on behalf of her constituents.

Davis views this matter as simply one of her rights of conscience, but it, in fact, implicates many more questions about the rule of law and the democratic process. Were American civil education stronger, that element of the story would getting much more play in the press.

It Would Be Easy to Accommodate Kim Davis
The most interesting analysis of the question is Eugene Volokh’s account. Volokh is one of America’s leading experts on religious liberty, and his account of the case is enlightening and fascinating. Volokh reminds us that religious exemptions to generally applicable laws are common in the United States—from Quakers who refuse to fight, to a “philosophically vegetarian” bus driver who refused to hand out free hamburger coupons. (Note that, in this case, our courts agreed that the word “philosophy” used in this sense means religion—our fundamental moral beliefs, values, or practices.)

Religious exemptions to generally applicable laws are common in the United States.
Moreover, he points out that what Davis wants is an accommodation that would entail nothing more than changing the legal form of marriage licenses in a small way. He points out that she would be content with, in the words of her legal briefs: “Modifying the prescribed Kentucky marriage license form to remove the multiple references to Davis’ name, and thus to remove the personal nature of the authorization that Davis must provide on the current form.”

Volokh argues that she might actually win such an exemption under Kentucky law, although not federal law. If Davis turns to Kentucky courts and wins such a change, that would conclude the matter. In response to the argument that such an “accommodation” is, in reality, a legislative change that would require an act of the legislature, Volokh finds that Kentucky law already provides for such an accommodation.

What’s Really Happening Is the End of Law Itself
That opens up a whole second set of questions. It is one thing for a religious-freedom law to require accommodations or work-arounds that would, for example, exempt a religious Muslim or Jew from head-covering laws or facial-hair requirements, and another for one law, as if by autopilot, to change the wording of a legal form. But if courts are allowed to, in effect, dictate the content of our legal code rather than, as they traditionally did, simply reject unconstitutional law, that might not be so unreasonable.

More and more of the laws under which we live are not legislation passed by our legislatures.
That Volokh’s interpretation may very well be correct shows us how far the very idea of legislation has been degraded in the United States. After all, more and more of the laws under which we live are not legislation passed by our legislatures. Instead, they are rules created by unelected bureaucrats or, as in this case, unelected judges—and in both cases they usually have jobs for life, making them, in effect, a postmodern form of robe-nobility.


How to fight against such intrusions upon the rights of we, the people? As in all other fights, we need to fight intelligently. Moreover, we also need to do our best to see the full contours of the fight we are in.

What Do Kim Davis’s Constituents Think?

ALL of it here:
Kim Davis And The Rule Of Law
 
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This is so simple.

The US-Constitution is THE law of the land, not Kim Davis. Not Mike Huckabee. Not Calgary Cruz.

The SCOTUS is charged with interpreting the law and passing judgement in cases that make it all the way to the SCOTUS.

That's how it works.

If you don't like it, there are banana republics all over the place willing to take in people who cannot understand how a consitutional Republic based on indirect Democracy works.

Thanks, and have a nice day.
 
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Kim Davis has every Constitutional right to refuse issuing gay marriage licenses in her name. It doesn't matter that she is an agent of the government sworn to uphold the government's laws. This is not any different than if the SCOTUS ruled it "legal" to burn churches and she was being obliged to issue permits for it. Or if a superior officer ordered a subordinate to execute prisoners to avoid having to deal with them as POWs. This is a conflict between the morals and ethics of Davis and what "the law" says according to SCOTUS. Davis did not cause that conflict she is merely a victim of it's circumstances. The SCOTUS caused this conflict with a lawless ruling they had no business making. This is what happens when you have a rogue activist Court legislating from the bench.
 
Kim Davis has every Constitutional right to refuse issuing gay marriage licenses in her name. It doesn't matter that she is an agent of the government sworn to uphold the government's laws. This is not any different than if the SCOTUS ruled it "legal" to burn churches and she was being obliged to issue permits for it. Or if a superior officer ordered a subordinate to execute prisoners to avoid having to deal with them as POWs. This is a conflict between the morals and ethics of Davis and what "the law" says according to SCOTUS. Davis did not cause that conflict she is merely a victim of it's circumstances. The SCOTUS caused this conflict with a lawless ruling they had no business making. This is what happens when you have a rogue activist Court legislating from the bench.
That conflict can easily be resolved....Resign the Position of Clerk.....she has a Right to Religious freedom but not to occupy a Government position in order to enforce Religious Doctrine...its not complicated....
 
The SCOTUS is charged with interpreting the law and passing judgement in cases that make it all the way to the SCOTUS.

That's how it works.

It does not matter that this is how YOU think it works. You cannot compel someone to sign their name to something they fundamentally disagree with on a religious basis... doesn't matter who they are or what their capacity is. You can dislike it... that's about all you can do.... other than to change the requirements so that Davis doesn't have to put her name on it. That would be the appropriate thing to do here... but liberals think she should be forced to do this against her will and in contradiction of her religion. That violates her 1st Amendment rights which trumps the SCOTUS ruling.
 
It does not matter that this is how YOU think it works. You cannot compel someone to sign their name to something they fundamentally disagree with on a religious basis..

May I suggest then she resign since the Law of The Land allows Gay marriage and she cannot comply...Resign for Jesus ...
 
Kim Davis has every Constitutional right to refuse issuing gay marriage licenses in her name. It doesn't matter that she is an agent of the government sworn to uphold the government's laws. This is not any different than if the SCOTUS ruled it "legal" to burn churches and she was being obliged to issue permits for it. Or if a superior officer ordered a subordinate to execute prisoners to avoid having to deal with them as POWs. This is a conflict between the morals and ethics of Davis and what "the law" says according to SCOTUS. Davis did not cause that conflict she is merely a victim of it's circumstances. The SCOTUS caused this conflict with a lawless ruling they had no business making. This is what happens when you have a rogue activist Court legislating from the bench.
That conflict can easily be resolved....Resign the Position of Clerk.....she has a Right to Religious freedom but not to occupy a Government position in order to enforce Religious Doctrine...its not complicated....

No sir.. She should not have to resign because of her religious beliefs. You cannot discriminate based on religion. Sorry.... can't do it. She has every right to maintain her job and doesn't have any obligation to resign. She is not enforcing religious doctrine. She is being required to condone something her faith doesn't allow her to condone.
 
It does not matter that this is how YOU think it works. You cannot compel someone to sign their name to something they fundamentally disagree with on a religious basis..

May I suggest then she resign since the Law of The Land allows Gay marriage and she cannot comply...Resign for Jesus ...

It does not matter what the supposed "law of the land" allows. The "law of the land" used to allow black people to be bought and sold as property. Are you saying everyone who disagreed with that law should have resigned or sat down and shut up? ---We don't have to do what you say! This isn't an Atheist Oligarchy.

The 1st Amendment is law of the land too!
 
The SCOTUS is charged with interpreting the law and passing judgement in cases that make it all the way to the SCOTUS.

That's how it works.

It does not matter that this is how YOU think it works. You cannot compel someone to sign their name to something they fundamentally disagree with on a religious basis... doesn't matter who they are or what their capacity is. You can dislike it... that's about all you can do.... other than to change the requirements so that Davis doesn't have to put her name on it. That would be the appropriate thing to do here... but liberals think she should be forced to do this against her will and in contradiction of her religion. That violates her 1st Amendment rights which trumps the SCOTUS ruling.


Uhm, no.

It's not how I "think" it works.

It's HOW it works.

There is a difference.
 
Kim Davis has every Constitutional right to refuse issuing gay marriage licenses in her name. It doesn't matter that she is an agent of the government sworn to uphold the government's laws. This is not any different than if the SCOTUS ruled it "legal" to burn churches and she was being obliged to issue permits for it. Or if a superior officer ordered a subordinate to execute prisoners to avoid having to deal with them as POWs. This is a conflict between the morals and ethics of Davis and what "the law" says according to SCOTUS. Davis did not cause that conflict she is merely a victim of it's circumstances. The SCOTUS caused this conflict with a lawless ruling they had no business making. This is what happens when you have a rogue activist Court legislating from the bench.
That conflict can easily be resolved....Resign the Position of Clerk.....she has a Right to Religious freedom but not to occupy a Government position in order to enforce Religious Doctrine...its not complicated....

No sir.. She should not have to resign because of her religious beliefs. You cannot discriminate based on religion. Sorry.... can't do it. She has every right to maintain her job and doesn't have any obligation to resign. She is not enforcing religious doctrine. She is being required to condone something her faith doesn't allow her to condone.


I agree. She should not have to resign. But she should take another post, one where she cannot impinge upon the rights of other citizens.
 
Uhm, no.

It's not how I "think" it works.

It's HOW it works.

Are you brain-damaged, or what?

No, it's NOT how it works. The SCOTUS can't legislate from the bench and fundamentally violate the 1st Amendment rights of Kim Davis. You may think they can... they may think they can... they can't.
 
Uhm, no.

It's not how I "think" it works.

It's HOW it works.

Are you brain-damaged, or what?

No, it's NOT how it works. The SCOTUS can't legislate from the bench and fundamentally violate the 1st Amendment rights of Kim Davis. You may think they can... they may think they can... they can't.


Ahhh, but they did not legislate from the bench. That is the crux of this.
 
she was voted in
as was Adolph Hitler.......
actually you are incorrect on that


No, he is quite correct. True, in 1932, the NSDAP did not get a plurality in the German popular vote, but that's not how their system works. It's a coalition formula to get, with two or more parties together, to 48.6% of the popular vote, which is considered absolute majority in Germany. So, actually, yes, although I find it quite distasteful, Hitler's NSDAP was duly elected in the 1932 parliamentary elections and his party was one of the two which formed the winning coalition. And in the next parliamentary election, the NSDAP came in around 98%. Sad, but true.

German electoral politics of then and also of now did not / do not work like our electoral politics.
 

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