Kerry: Door for 'Two-State Solution' May be Closing

[Roudy]

Jordan did not exist until 1921 when Winston Churchill invented it.

Demand Jordan cease to exist because it was created by the same powers that created Israel

Jordan was even named "Arab Palestine" while Israel was named "Jewish Palestine". so many Arab Muslim countries were formed at the time Israel and Jordan were created. But apparently the only entity the Arabs have a problem with is the non Muslim one. Anybody who tells you this conflict is not about Muslim intolerance and Islamic religious hatred and bigotry is on drugs.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

 

[Roudy]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now I think you are confused and grasping at straws.

That is not true. Israel was not created by the mandate. Britain quit the mandate without ceding any land or sovereignty to Israel. Israel created itself in Palestine by military force. That was illegal, by the way.

(COMMENT)

I did not say "by the Mandate" --- I said "from the Mandate" as in ---> from the same territory covered by the various Mandates.

If it was illegal, what specific law did they violate? Again, they declared Independence, they made application for admission to the LoN(UN), it was coordinated with the Mandatory, with the knowledge of the Allied Powers.

They defended their territory against armed aggressors, they did not take it by force. It is universally recognized that the 5 Arab Armies attack first in 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. However, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate did not own Palestine. Israel could not take anything from the mandate because it did not own anything.

Neither did the Arabs own Palestine, you ******* idiot.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Sometime you just kill me. I have to admire your tenacity.

Again, which specific law are you referring.

People have the right to self determination without external interference. It is illegal to deny a people their rights. Britain and the Zionists were external interferience.

It is illegal to acquire land by the threat or use of force. All of Israel's land was taken by Israeli forces against the Palestinian civilian population.

(COMMENT)

The UK was the Mandatory appointed by the Allied Powers through the established mechanisms of the LoNs.

The Zionist is a "Red Herring." You are talking about the Jewish population, on the ground and in place at the time they declared Independence.

While there may be a question concerning the immigration methods, the Israelis did not make an amphibious assault and take the land by force. It was fully coordinated with the Allied Powers, and the LoN (UN), with the termination of the British Mandate. The indigenous population (the Jewish people there at the time) made a Declaration of Independence, they made an application for admission to the United Nations, and defended their nation against armed aggressors. But they were not, no matter how hard you argue, an "external interference." Just more coordinated and competent in their exercise of their right to self determination.

Zionism is not a red herring. You can't just say Jewish population. There were two different Jewish populations. One was the native Jews who had the right to self determination along with the other Palestinians. None of the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence was a native Jew.

(COMMENT)

Who established this criteria? Menachem Begin arrived in Palestine in mid May 1942. How long does it take to be an "indigenous Palestinian?"

Where is this written?

I tend to think this is just another excuse or justification to oppose the success in building a nation, that the Arab Palestinians were unable to build.

Israel was the project of the foreign World Zionist Organization. They imported settlers by the thousands as a part of their plan to take over Palestine. There was no intention for these settlers to be a part of the Palestinian population but to populate their intended Jewish state. There was never any intent for them to become part of the indigenous population.

(COMMENT)

• Yes, there was immigration, no question.
• Yes, they wanted to establish a homeland.
• By being in the territory, they were Palestinians. But even at that, at the time, to be a Palestinians was not the same as having a nationality. During the term of the Mandate, Palestinians were de facto UK subjects and received a UK Passport (similar to Hong Kong).

Palestine is a region of territory; like Appalachia in the US. Every Israeli living in the region is a de facto Palestinian - established by residence. Arabs establish the claim to be called Palestinian by the same means. Yassar Arafat was born in Cairo. He only spent 5 years in Jerusalem as a child (Age 5 - 10). As a teenager he as an arms smuggler between Egypt and Gaza. When did he become a Palestinian? Golda Meir immigrated to a kibbutz in 1921 from the US, when did she pickup "indigenous status."

This is just such a strange argument.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not correct.

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. However, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate did not own Palestine. Israel could not take anything from the mandate because it did not own anything.

(COMMENT)

You don't declare independence from a Mandate. You are released from the protection and control of the Mandatory. The Mandatory must relinquish control first, before Independence is possible.

ACCORDINGLY, WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world, met together in solemn assembly today, the day of the termination of the British mandate for Palestine, by virtue of the natural and historic right of the Jewish and of the Resolution of the General Assembly of the United Nations,

HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.

WE HEREBY DECLARE that as from the termination of the Mandate at midnight, this night of the 14th and 15th May, 1948, and until the setting up of the duly elected bodies of the State in accordance with a Constitution, to be drawn up by a Constituent Assembly not later than the first day of October, 1948, the present National Council shall act as the provisional administration, shall constitute the Provisional Government of the State of Israel.

Ownership is a property real estate term. National Sovereignty does not impact ownership. While under the assigned Mandate, the UK exercised sovereign control over what we are talking about: British Mandate for Palestine.

You do this often, you confuse Sovereign control with property ownership. The US Government exercises sovereignty over the land I own; it is part of the United States, not Canada. It is two different concepts. The State of Israel may own some real property, just like a private owner. But the State of Israel doesn't nullify the ownership rights of private property, Arab or Israeli (except in rare cases of emanate domain).

This is another Red Herring.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Sometime you just kill me. I have to admire your tenacity.

Again, which specific law are you referring.


(COMMENT)

The UK was the Mandatory appointed by the Allied Powers through the established mechanisms of the LoNs.

The Zionist is a "Red Herring." You are talking about the Jewish population, on the ground and in place at the time they declared Independence.

While there may be a question concerning the immigration methods, the Israelis did not make an amphibious assault and take the land by force. It was fully coordinated with the Allied Powers, and the LoN (UN), with the termination of the British Mandate. The indigenous population (the Jewish people there at the time) made a Declaration of Independence, they made an application for admission to the United Nations, and defended their nation against armed aggressors. But they were not, no matter how hard you argue, an "external interference." Just more coordinated and competent in their exercise of their right to self determination.

Zionism is not a red herring. You can't just say Jewish population. There were two different Jewish populations. One was the native Jews who had the right to self determination along with the other Palestinians. None of the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence was a native Jew.

(COMMENT)

Who established this criteria? Menachem Begin arrived in Palestine in mid May 1942. How long does it take to be an "indigenous Palestinian?"

Where is this written?

I tend to think this is just another excuse or justification to oppose the success in building a nation, that the Arab Palestinians were unable to build.

Israel was the project of the foreign World Zionist Organization. They imported settlers by the thousands as a part of their plan to take over Palestine. There was no intention for these settlers to be a part of the Palestinian population but to populate their intended Jewish state. There was never any intent for them to become part of the indigenous population.

(COMMENT)

• Yes, there was immigration, no question.
• Yes, they wanted to establish a homeland.
• By being in the territory, they were Palestinians. But even at that, at the time, to be a Palestinians was not the same as having a nationality. During the term of the Mandate, Palestinians were de facto UK subjects and received a UK Passport (similar to Hong Kong).

Palestine is a region of territory; like Appalachia in the US. Every Israeli living in the region is a de facto Palestinian - established by residence. Arabs establish the claim to be called Palestinian by the same means. Yassar Arafat was born in Cairo. He only spent 5 years in Jerusalem as a child (Age 5 - 10). As a teenager he as an arms smuggler between Egypt and Gaza. When did he become a Palestinian? Golda Meir immigrated to a kibbutz in 1921 from the US, when did she pickup "indigenous status."

This is just such a strange argument.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, did Menachem Begin or Golda Meir become Palestinian citizens?

Arafat had Palestinian parents. All of his siblings except one was born in Palestine. His father happened to be working in Egypt when he was born.

Israel was created by foreigners by military force without the consent of the majority of the Palestinians.

 

[proudveteran06]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Sometime you just kill me. I have to admire your tenacity.

Again, which specific law are you referring.


(COMMENT)

The UK was the Mandatory appointed by the Allied Powers through the established mechanisms of the LoNs.

The Zionist is a "Red Herring." You are talking about the Jewish population, on the ground and in place at the time they declared Independence.

While there may be a question concerning the immigration methods, the Israelis did not make an amphibious assault and take the land by force. It was fully coordinated with the Allied Powers, and the LoN (UN), with the termination of the British Mandate. The indigenous population (the Jewish people there at the time) made a Declaration of Independence, they made an application for admission to the United Nations, and defended their nation against armed aggressors. But they were not, no matter how hard you argue, an "external interference." Just more coordinated and competent in their exercise of their right to self determination.

Zionism is not a red herring. You can't just say Jewish population. There were two different Jewish populations. One was the native Jews who had the right to self determination along with the other Palestinians. None of the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence was a native Jew.

(COMMENT)

Who established this criteria? Menachem Begin arrived in Palestine in mid May 1942. How long does it take to be an "indigenous Palestinian?"

Where is this written?

I tend to think this is just another excuse or justification to oppose the success in building a nation, that the Arab Palestinians were unable to build.

Israel was the project of the foreign World Zionist Organization. They imported settlers by the thousands as a part of their plan to take over Palestine. There was no intention for these settlers to be a part of the Palestinian population but to populate their intended Jewish state. There was never any intent for them to become part of the indigenous population.

(COMMENT)

• Yes, there was immigration, no question.
• Yes, they wanted to establish a homeland.
• By being in the territory, they were Palestinians. But even at that, at the time, to be a Palestinians was not the same as having a nationality. During the term of the Mandate, Palestinians were de facto UK subjects and received a UK Passport (similar to Hong Kong).

Palestine s a region of territory; like Appalachia in the US. Every Israeli living in the region is a de facto Palestinian - established by residence. Arabs establish the claim to be called Palestinian by the same means. Yassar Arafat was born in Cairo. He only spent 5 years in Jerusalem as a child (Age 5 - 10). As a teenager he as an arms smuggler between Egypt and Gaza. When did he become a Palestinian? Golda Meir immigrated to a kibbutz in 1921 from the US, when did she pickup "indigenous status."

This is just such a strange argument.

Most Respectfully,
R

Have to consider the source He states that prior to Israel the Jewish people had aCountry but when challenged there is no response He believes in a NJA bigotry and racism. He refers to "Palestine" as if it were actually a country . Ask why "Palestine" hasn't been created yet there will be no response

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not correct.

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. However, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate did not own Palestine. Israel could not take anything from the mandate because it did not own anything.

(COMMENT)

You don't declare independence from a Mandate. You are released from the protection and control of the Mandatory. The Mandatory must relinquish control first, before Independence is possible.

ACCORDINGLY, WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world, met together in solemn assembly today, the day of the termination of the British mandate for Palestine, by virtue of the natural and historic right of the Jewish and of the Resolution of the General Assembly of the United Nations,

HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.

WE HEREBY DECLARE that as from the termination of the Mandate at midnight, this night of the 14th and 15th May, 1948, and until the setting up of the duly elected bodies of the State in accordance with a Constitution, to be drawn up by a Constituent Assembly not later than the first day of October, 1948, the present National Council shall act as the provisional administration, shall constitute the Provisional Government of the State of Israel.

Ownership is a property real estate term. National Sovereignty does not impact ownership. While under the assigned Mandate, the UK exercised sovereign control over what we are talking about: British Mandate for Palestine.

You do this often, you confuse Sovereign control with property ownership. The US Government exercises sovereignty over the land I own; it is part of the United States, not Canada. It is two different concepts. The State of Israel may own some real property, just like a private owner. But the State of Israel doesn't nullify the ownership rights of private property, Arab or Israeli (except in rare cases of emanate domain).

This is another Red Herring.

Most Respectfully,
R

You don't declare independence from a Mandate. You are released from the protection and control of the Mandatory. The Mandatory must relinquish control first, before Independence is possible.

Indeed, and it did not relinquish control to Israel. It relinquished control to Palestine.

You do this often, you confuse Sovereign control with property ownership.

According to the LoN Covenant, the people were the sovereigns and the mandate was to assist them in creating an independent state according to their wishes. That is the law of self determination.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again ... you kill me.

OK, did Menachem Begin or Golda Meir become Palestinian citizens?

(COMMENT)

You become a citizen of a sovereignty. Palestine was not sovereign. The UK exercised sovereignty over Palestine during the period of the Mandate.

There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Arafat had Palestinian parents. All of his siblings except one was born in Palestine. His father happened to be working in Egypt when he was born.

(COMMENT)

Arafat was Egyptian. There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Israel was created by foreigners by military force without the consent of the majority of the Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

Again, wrong. Egyptian cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948; confirms entry into Israel. Egypt initiated hostilities.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now I think you are just quibbling with words.

You don't declare independence from a Mandate. You are released from the protection and control of the Mandatory. The Mandatory must relinquish control first, before Independence is possible.

Indeed, and it did not relinquish control to Israel. It relinquished control to Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Quibbling. It is a matter of record what Israel was doing. The British did not just one day decide to leave. They released the Mandate specifically to allow Israel to declare Independence.

You do this often, you confuse Sovereign control with property ownership.

According to the LoN Covenant, the people were the sovereigns and the mandate was to assist them in creating an independent state according to their wishes. That is the law of self determination.

(COMMENT)

In the LoN Covenant, the only time the word is used is in Article 22:

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
SOURCE: Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

I was quite thorough in the search. The word "sovereigns" as referring to the population is not used. Although it is, in certain context possible.

Yes and the Israelis did just that: "development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

Senator John Kerry says he is worried the door for a "two-state solution" may be closing and that would be "disastrous".

Kerry: Door for Two States May be Closing - Middle East - News - Israel National News

----------------

The two state solution has been a flop for 75 years. What makes anyone think that the door was ever open.

Who exactly is interested in the two states solution?

 

[sealadaigh]

reabhloideach, et al,

I stand corrected. 78%

I believe 78% of the Mandate's land mass was ceded to the Hashemites, "foreigners" from Arabia. They rule, through the power of their monarchy, over their nearly powerless Palestinian majority.

i do not think western colonial powers, or any colonial power, have any god given right to dictate to an indigenous people what that indigenous people's relationship to their land should be.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that any "god given right" was a factor in this at all. The ruler is determined by the outcome of conflict. And the ruler has the power "to dictate to an indigenous people what that indigenous people's relationship to their land." It is not always fair, but for 3000 years, that is the way Palestine and the region as a whole has been govern. Sometimes benevolently and sometimes not.

But by the same token, the indigenous population doesn't have a "god given right" to rule over their land. That is the dominion of men with power. I cannot change America to a democracy; for the rest of my lifetime, it will be a republic with laws influenced by professional parasitic politicians (versus patriots) and men of power through money.

Again, I say, the Palestinians had the same opportunities as the Israelis have had. The Palestinians chose to determine their fate through trial by combat. One needs only look at the outcome to determine which culture had the better results. The Palestinian can turn the outcomes around by adopting a similar cultural paradigm. The question is, do they know how to build a culture that is as prosperous and economically viable as the Israelis?

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

that is fine with me. i have no problem whatsoever with "might makes right" and personally. i thrive on chaos. let's go with that and stop trying to inject some sense of morality into the situation.

as it stands, i consider the genocide a fait accompli. there will be no viable palestine in the future and the jews and zionists worldwide will pay for that.

just don't try to BS me. i'm not buying it. the palestinians cannot turn it around. israel and zionists have already stated that judea and samaria are theirs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again ... you kill me.

OK, did Menachem Begin or Golda Meir become Palestinian citizens?

(COMMENT)

You become a citizen of a sovereignty. Palestine was not sovereign. The UK exercised sovereignty over Palestine during the period of the Mandate.

There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Then Britain violated its mandate.

Article 7

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Article 12

The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limit.

Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)

Arafat had Palestinian parents. All of his siblings except one was born in Palestine. His father happened to be working in Egypt when he was born.

(COMMENT)

Arafat was Egyptian. There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Israel was created by foreigners by military force without the consent of the majority of the Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

Again, wrong. Egyptian cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948; confirms entry into Israel. Egypt initiated hostilities.

Your statement is not true.

II. THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE

5. Arab League declaration on the invasion of Palestine, 15 May 1948:

The State of Israel came into being on the evening of Friday, 14 May 1948. On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. The Egyptian Foreign Minister informed the Security Council that "Egyptian armed forces have started to enter Palestine to establish law and order" (his cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948). The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine:

5 Arab League declaration on the invasion of Pales

Those Arab countries did not attack Israel. They went into Palestine to protect the Palestinians. They did not start the war. By that time Israeli forces had already created about 300,000 Palestinian refugees and destroyed hundreds of Palestinian villages.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again ... you kill me.

OK, did Menachem Begin or Golda Meir become Palestinian citizens?

(COMMENT)

You become a citizen of a sovereignty. Palestine was not sovereign. The UK exercised sovereignty over Palestine during the period of the Mandate.

There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Then Britain violated its mandate.





Your statement is not true.

II. THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE

5. Arab League declaration on the invasion of Palestine, 15 May 1948:

The State of Israel came into being on the evening of Friday, 14 May 1948. On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. The Egyptian Foreign Minister informed the Security Council that "Egyptian armed forces have started to enter Palestine to establish law and order" (his cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948). The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine:

5 Arab League declaration on the invasion of Pales

Those Arab countries did not attack Israel. They went into Palestine to protect the Palestinians. They did not start the war. By that time Israeli forces had already created about 300,000 Palestinian refugees and destroyed hundreds of Palestinian villages.

Most Respectfully,
R

Another lie. The Arabs never once attacked the Israel to create a Palestine. They attacked Israel because they wanted to destroy the Jewish state, destroy it and then divide the proceeds between themselves. They are all on record scoffing at the thought of a Palestinian people, and in fact considered the concept of a "Palestinian" a Zionist conspiracy since the only people who were regarded as Palestinians were JEWS. Which is why when Jordan and Egypt controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967, neither of them thought of creating this mythical Palestine nor were there any "Palestinian Arabs" requesting that a state be created in those territories.

Your lies are getting old and putrid, I suggest you request your Hamas handlers provide you with some fresh ones. .

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again ... you kill me.


(COMMENT)

You become a citizen of a sovereignty. Palestine was not sovereign. The UK exercised sovereignty over Palestine during the period of the Mandate.

There was no such thing as Palestinian Citizenship.

Then Britain violated its mandate.





Your statement is not true.



Those Arab countries did not attack Israel. They went into Palestine to protect the Palestinians. They did not start the war. By that time Israeli forces had already created about 300,000 Palestinian refugees and destroyed hundreds of Palestinian villages.

Most Respectfully,
R

Another lie. The Arabs never once attacked the Israel to create a Palestine. They attacked Israel because they wanted to destroy the Jewish state, destroy it and then divide the proceeds between themselves. They are all on record scoffing at the thought of a Palestinian people, and in fact considered the concept of a "Palestinian" a Zionist conspiracy since the only people who were regarded as Palestinians were JEWS. Which is why when Jordan and Egypt controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967, neither of them thought of creating this mythical Palestine nor were there any "Palestinian Arabs" requesting that a state be created in those territories.

Your lies are getting old and putrid, I suggest you request your Hamas handlers provide you with some fresh ones. .

They attacked Israel, blah, blah, blah.

II. THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE

5. Arab League declaration on the invasion of Palestine, 15 May 1948:

The State of Israel came into being on the evening of Friday, 14 May 1948. On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. The Egyptian Foreign Minister informed the Security Council that "Egyptian armed forces have started to enter Palestine to establish law and order" (his cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948). The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine:

5 Arab League declaration on the invasion of Pales

Where does it say attack Israel?

 

[SAYIT]

Jordan did not exist until 1921 when Winston Churchill invented it.

Demand Jordan cease to exist because it was created by the same powers that created Israel

Jordan was even named "Arab Palestine" while Israel was named "Jewish Palestine". so many Arab Muslim countries were formed at the time Israel and Jordan were created. But apparently the only entity the Arabs have a problem with is the non Muslim one. Anybody who tells you this conflict is not about Muslim intolerance and Islamic religious hatred and bigotry is on drugs.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

Better living through chemistry!

 

[Roudy]

Leave it up to a terrorist worshipping liar to claim an INVASION of the military forces of 4 Arab countries, does not constitute an attack. Look either your ******* illiterate or a shameless liar, or both.

5. Arab League declaration on the invasion of Palestine, 15 May 1948:

The State of Israel came into being on the evening of Friday, 14 May 1948. On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. ?.... The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine.

So if someone says so and so passed away, doesn't mean the person is actually dead, after all the word dead was not used, right? Ha ha ha. What a buffoon.

 

[SAYIT]

quote=SAYIT
I believe 78% of the Mandate's land mass was ceded to the Hashemites, "foreigners" from Arabia. They rule, through the power of their monarchy, over their nearly powerless Palestinian majority.

quote=RoccoR
I stand corrected. 78%

QUOTE=reabhloideach
i do not think western colonial powers, or any colonial power, have any god given right to dictate to an indigenous people what that indigenous people's relationship to their land should be.

quote=RoccoR
I don't think that any "god given right" was a factor in this at all. The ruler is determined by the outcome of conflict. And the ruler has the power "to dictate to an indigenous people what that indigenous people's relationship to their land." It is not always fair, but for 3000 years, that is the way Palestine and the region as a whole has been govern. Sometimes benevolently and sometimes not.

But by the same token, the indigenous population doesn't have a "god given right" to rule over their land. That is the dominion of men with power. I cannot change America to a democracy; for the rest of my lifetime, it will be a republic with laws influenced by professional parasitic politicians (versus patriots) and men of power through money.

Again, I say, the Palestinians had the same opportunities as the Israelis have had. The Palestinians chose to determine their fate through trial by combat. One needs only look at the outcome to determine which culture had the better results. The Palestinian can turn the outcomes around by adopting a similar cultural paradigm. The question is, do they know how to build a culture that is as prosperous and economically viable as the Israelis?

Most Respectfully,
R

QUOTE=reabhloideach
that is fine with me. i have no problem whatsoever with "might makes right" and personally. i thrive on chaos. let's go with that and stop trying to inject some sense of morality into the situation.

as it stands, i consider the genocide a fait accompli. there will be no viable palestine in the future and the jews and zionists worldwide will pay for that.

just don't try to BS me. i'm not buying it. the palestinians cannot turn it around. israel and zionists have already stated that judea and samaria are theirs.[/QUOTE]

quote=SAYIT
What "genocide?"
According to The Twentieth Century Atlas and The Polynational War Memorial there were fewer than 20,000 conflict casualties - Palestinian and Israeli combined - from 1948-2009.

 

[Roudy]

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I have read all the cables:

• 05/22/1948 S/RES/49 (1948)
• S/773 Military operations in Palestine/Cease-fire order/Truce Commission/Jerusalem - SecCo resolution
• 05/22/1948 S/776 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/22/1948 S/771 Shooting of US Consul-General Jerusalem - Telegram from United States Representative
• 05/22/1948 S/766 Palestine question/SecCo questions - UN letter, reply from Provisional Government of Israel in Tel Aviv
• 05/22/1948 S/792 SecCo resolution 46 - Truce in Palestine - Response by Iraq, Arab States
• 05/21/1948 S/764 Shelling of Hadassah hospital - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/21/1948 S/765 Jerusalem military attacks - Cablegram from Deputy Municipal Comm-Gen for Jerusalem
• 05/21/1948 PAL/173 ICRC appeals for security zones in Jerusalem - Press release
• 05/21/1948 S/763 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/20/1948 S/761 Ceasefire efforts - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/732 Palestine question - Issues of which SecCo is seized - SecGen summary statement
• 05/19/1948 S/758 Battle in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/759 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/755 Palestine question/Truce/ Juridical status of Palestine - SecCo draft resolution - United Kingdom amendment
• 05/19/1948 S/757 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission/Israel
• 05/18/1948 S/750 Jerusalem/Arab attack on Armenian Patriarchate - Letter/Cablegram from Israel
• 05/18/1948 S/772 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Saudi Arabian troops - Communication between SecCo President and Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia
• 05/18/1948 S/774 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Yemeni troops - Communication between SecCo President and Yemen Foreign Minister
• 05/18/1948 S/751 Jerusalem/Jewish attack on Al-Aqsa Mosque Compound - Cablegram from Transjordan
• 05/18/1948 S/769 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from SecCo president, Iraqi response
• 05/18/1948 S/770 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Lebanese troops - Communication between SecCo President and Lebanese Foreign Minister
• 05/18/1948 S/768 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from SecCo president, Syrian response
• 05/18/1948 S/767 Mideast situation/Truce violations - SecCo questions, Egyptian response
• 05/18/1948 S/760 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Transjordan troops - Communication between SecCo President and Foreign Minister of Transjordan
• 05/18/1948 S/753 Palestine question/1948 war - SecCo questions to the parties
• 05/18/1948 S/753
• S/PV.295 Palestine question - A questionnaire to the parties - SecCo decision
• 05/18/1948 S/754 Shipment of military equipment - Letter/Cablegram from Israel
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/Agenda/76 UN Palestine Commission - Agenda
• 05/17/1948 S/747/Corr.1 Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr.
• 05/17/1948 PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die - Press release
• 05/17/1948 S/749 Situation in Palestine - SecCo draft resolution
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/12/Rev.1 UN Palestine Commission - Documents distributed to the Commission - Note by Secretariat (Rev.1)
• 05/17/1948 PAL/171 Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem - Letter/Cable from Israel, Press release
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/SR.76 UN Palestine Commission adjourns indefinitely - Summary record
• 05/16/1948 A/AC.21/UK/147 UN Palestine Commission - Palestine Currency Board - Letter from United Kingdom
• 05/16/1948 A/AC.21/UK/14 UN Palestine Commission - Palestine Currency Board - Letter from United Kingdom
• 05/16/1948 PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release
• 05/15/1948 S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen

Where does it say attack Israel?

(COMMENT)

You are correct. The Arabs, just happen to have their troops massed already. The Palestinians initiate a conflict and that gives the Arabs and excuse to enter the sovereign territory of Israel. All politically correct on paper.

Except the world knows the Jewish Leadership was not so stupid as to initiate any hostile action. They were too vulnerable and the risks too high.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I have read all the cables:

• 05/22/1948 S/RES/49 (1948)
• S/773 Military operations in Palestine/Cease-fire order/Truce Commission/Jerusalem - SecCo resolution
• 05/22/1948 S/776 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/22/1948 S/771 Shooting of US Consul-General Jerusalem - Telegram from United States Representative
• 05/22/1948 S/766 Palestine question/SecCo questions - UN letter, reply from Provisional Government of Israel in Tel Aviv
• 05/22/1948 S/792 SecCo resolution 46 - Truce in Palestine - Response by Iraq, Arab States
• 05/21/1948 S/764 Shelling of Hadassah hospital - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/21/1948 S/765 Jerusalem military attacks - Cablegram from Deputy Municipal Comm-Gen for Jerusalem
• 05/21/1948 PAL/173 ICRC appeals for security zones in Jerusalem - Press release
• 05/21/1948 S/763 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/20/1948 S/761 Ceasefire efforts - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/732 Palestine question - Issues of which SecCo is seized - SecGen summary statement
• 05/19/1948 S/758 Battle in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/759 Military situation in Jerusalem - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission
• 05/19/1948 S/755 Palestine question/Truce/ Juridical status of Palestine - SecCo draft resolution - United Kingdom amendment
• 05/19/1948 S/757 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from Chairman SecCo Truce Commission/Israel
• 05/18/1948 S/750 Jerusalem/Arab attack on Armenian Patriarchate - Letter/Cablegram from Israel
• 05/18/1948 S/772 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Saudi Arabian troops - Communication between SecCo President and Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia
• 05/18/1948 S/774 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Yemeni troops - Communication between SecCo President and Yemen Foreign Minister
• 05/18/1948 S/751 Jerusalem/Jewish attack on Al-Aqsa Mosque Compound - Cablegram from Transjordan
• 05/18/1948 S/769 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from SecCo president, Iraqi response
• 05/18/1948 S/770 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Lebanese troops - Communication between SecCo President and Lebanese Foreign Minister
• 05/18/1948 S/768 Mideast situation/Truce violations - Cablegram from SecCo president, Syrian response
• 05/18/1948 S/767 Mideast situation/Truce violations - SecCo questions, Egyptian response
• 05/18/1948 S/760 Situation in Palestine - Presence of Transjordan troops - Communication between SecCo President and Foreign Minister of Transjordan
• 05/18/1948 S/753 Palestine question/1948 war - SecCo questions to the parties
• 05/18/1948 S/753
• S/PV.295 Palestine question - A questionnaire to the parties - SecCo decision
• 05/18/1948 S/754 Shipment of military equipment - Letter/Cablegram from Israel
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/Agenda/76 UN Palestine Commission - Agenda
• 05/17/1948 S/747/Corr.1 Palestine question - Cablegram from Israel to the SecGen/Corr.
• 05/17/1948 PAL/169 Palestine question - Palestine Commission adjourns sine die - Press release
• 05/17/1948 S/749 Situation in Palestine - SecCo draft resolution
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/12/Rev.1 UN Palestine Commission - Documents distributed to the Commission - Note by Secretariat (Rev.1)
• 05/17/1948 PAL/171 Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem - Letter/Cable from Israel, Press release
• 05/17/1948 A/AC.21/SR.76 UN Palestine Commission adjourns indefinitely - Summary record
• 05/16/1948 A/AC.21/UK/147 UN Palestine Commission - Palestine Currency Board - Letter from United Kingdom
• 05/16/1948 A/AC.21/UK/14 UN Palestine Commission - Palestine Currency Board - Letter from United Kingdom
• 05/16/1948 PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release
• 05/15/1948 S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen

Where does it say attack Israel?

(COMMENT)

You are correct. The Arabs, just happen to have their troops massed already. The Palestinians initiate a conflict and that gives the Arabs and excuse to enter the sovereign territory of Israel. All politically correct on paper.

Except the world knows the Jewish Leadership was not so stupid as to initiate any hostile action. They were too vulnerable and the risks too high.

Most Respectfully,
R

Tinmore assumes everybody is as stupid and ignorant as itself.