Kentucky Clerk Jailed for Contempt of Court

[Silhouette]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality...There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents....Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

You know, now that you mention it...I have noticed a rise in indigency, drug abuse and alcoholism in the most recently-fledged generations. And this OP explains exactly why, given what you just said: Prince's Trust Survey & The Voices of the Voteless (Children) in Gay Marriage Debate | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

A final word to all of the low life bigots ...

The absolutely coolest thing about the use of the word "bigot", is that the use of the word is a precise demonstration of bigotry.

I guess I will never tire of watching people demonstrate; in irrefutable terms... That they quite literally are that which they otherwise spoke out against.

 

[dcraelin]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

 

[dcraelin]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

Agreed.

First two hits from a quick google search...

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
UPDATED: 16:42 EST, 6 April 2013


A same-sex couple accused of sexually abusing their adopted children are facing trial after withdrawing from a plea agreement as they are facing new allegations of molestation.





Read more: 'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

.
.
.

35% of Foster-Parent Molestations Homosexual
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., Aug. 10 /Christian Newswire/ -- New evidence poses problems for those who think homosexuals should be allowed to serve as foster-parents. 35% of foster- parents who sexually abused their foster-children in the last three years engaged in homosexuality.
From 2003 through 2005, a third of foster-parent molestations of foster-children were homosexual. That’s the official tally from two states -- Illinois and Minnesota -- that permit homosexual foster-parents. For the approximately 30,000 children/year in foster- care at some point in the two states:

• 12 foster mothers sexually abused their charges: 9 (75%) assaulted foster-daughters, 3 (25%) raped foster-sons.
  
  
• 28 foster-fathers sexually abused their charges: 23 (82%) assaulted foster-daughters, 5 (18%) raped foster-sons.

Overall, 26 (65%) of foster-parent perpetrators engaged in heterosexuality and 14 (35%) in homosexuality with their charges. Most molestation by foster-mothers was homosexual; most by foster- fathers heterosexual.
Virtually all studies indicate that homosexuals comprise between 2% to 4% of adults. Thus the figures above indicate a disproportionate amount of homosexual molestation.

Homosexual Foster Parents Molest Children Above Average

Now with Homosexuals comprising only 2% of the human population and better than 30% of all sexual assaults on children being perpetrated by homosexuals, it's self-evident that the mental disorder that presents as homosexuality, presents as a high potential indicator of pedophilia as well.

Therefore, allowing children to be left alone with a person showing indications of homosexuality, should be dealt with as a crime against the child.

Just as hiring a person showing indications of homosexuality for any position of authority over children, or which set a sexual deviant in positions of trust with, for or around children, should likewise be treated as a crime against children.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Holy Shit! ... a bad joke without a punch line.

Yes... Such appears to be your singular gift.

 

[dcraelin]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

and you dont think that conflicts a little bit with the idea that they are born that way?......I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals.

But it WAS an aside........and isnt essential to my arguments on gay marriage.

you cut and pasted a line that said someday the SC will legalize gay marriage.....showing you dont really put much thought into your answers.

 

[Silhouette]

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Other reasons why we aren't hearing about it...because things that make the news involving child abuse always come with an APA rider on the story . Since the APA is owned by the lavendar mafia, you'd more likely hear about the Government admitting project Blue Book was actually about aliens landing on Earth. Pretty sure I don't even have to remind you who owns the media..

ie: you don't hear about it because you're being kept from it. Just like the alarming statistics on gay domestic abuse. Seems it isn't all roses in rainbow-paradise..

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

A final word to all of the low life bigots who shamelessly use children in their failed propaganda war on equality

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976. In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have gay or lesbian parents.

Latest statistics from the U.S. Census 2000, the National Survey of Family Growth (2002), and the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (2004) include:

• An estimated two million LGLB people are interested in adopting.
• An estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a lesbian or gay parent.
• More than 16,000 adopted children are living with lesbian and gay parents in California, the highest number among the states.
• Gay and lesbian parents are raising four percent of all adopted children in the United States.
• Adopted children with same-sex parents are younger and more likely to be foreign born.

http://adoption.about.com/od/gaylesbian/f/gayparents.htm

In addition, adoption is legal is 49 states. Generally, acceptance of gay and lesbian adoption has been way out in front of same sex marriage. In some states, it has been occurring for decades.

Given these numbers, please answer the following questions:

1. If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?
   
   
2. If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?
   
   
3. Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?

And let me tell you jerks something else....


I worked in a state run child welfare agency for 26 years. I had many jobs during that time including child protective services investigator, protective services supervisor, foster care unit supervisor, and foster and adoptive parent trainer.

The state in question, New Jersey, has been placing children with gay foster and adoptive parents for decades, long before same sex marriage was even being discussed. During my career, I was involved in some manner or other with thousands of cases of child abuse, including sexual abuse, physical abuse neglect as well is families that were generally dysfunctional due to substance abuse or mental health issues. I was responsible for removing children from some of those homes when it was determined that the risk was too great not to do so, or if the parents could not be rehabilitated.

In all that time I never came across a gay person who was the perpetrator of child abuse of any kind. Granted, they are few in number compared to heterosexual couples and single parents, but we are talking about a span of more than two and a half decades. In addition, I personally placed children with gay and lesbian couples and individuals after they were damaged by their straight parents. Those gay people provided loving and nurturing homes and gave those kids the best shot in life possible. And no, there were not enough straight people to care for those kids, but if there were I would have still have placed them with the gay folks if the match was right.

Never once did I have a problem with a gay foster of adoptive parent. Never once did any of them reject a child because they were not of the “correct” sexual orientation, but some straight people did in fact reject gay kids. During my time there and beyond I followed those families and I can tell you that those children have grown and thrived and overcame the bad hand that they were dealt by their straight parents, largely due to the nurturing offered and sacrifices made by the gay families who took them in.

In addition, when we talk about gay adoption, most often we are referring to situations where the child in question is the biological child of gay person and that persons partner wishes to adopt as a second parent. The benefits of having two legal parents are clear. There are an estimated 2 million children in the care of gay people. That will not change by banning adoption. It will only put those children at a disadvantage, socially, financially and legally.

In conclusion, opposition to gay adoption is just ignorant and hateful equine excrement. To say that you care about the children while opposing adoption by gays is hypocrisy at it’s very worst.


___________________________________________________________________________-

For starters, I have not seen any polls on the issue of support for adoption by gays in general , or gay men in particular. I do know that many states were allowing gays to adopt long before there was any gay marriage, indication that there has been broad support for it for some time now. Currently 49 states allow adoption by gays, and obviously includes some states that do not have marriage equality yet.

Now let me tell you a little about myself. I worked in a public child welfare agency in New Jersey for 26 years. NJ was the first state to expressly authorize joint adoption by gay couples.” Although other states were also allowing it (source: http://www.aclu.org/getequal/timeline.htm)

In my time there, I investigated child abuse and neglect including sexual abuse. I also recruited, trained and supervised foster and adoptive families, including some gay individuals and couples.

I am here to tell you that when it comes to same sex sexual abuse, gay men are not the problem. The whole idea comes from the fact that when a male molests a male child, he is labeled a homosexual. Sometimes they self-identify as homosexuals because that label does not carry they same stigma as pedophile. However, they rarely are homosexuals. They are a child abuser and/or pedophile. Some are heterosexual and have developed a regressed fixation on children of a specific age. Others are chronically fixated on children.

Homosexual refers to the sexual orientation of people who are attracted to age appropriate people of the same sex. I have never found a true homosexual to be a child molester. I won’t say that it never happens but it is certainly not in significant numbers.

The last figure that I saw for the number of adoptions by gay and lesbian people was 65,500. Honestly, I don’t know what percentage of those were by gay men, but I do believe that it’s significant. In addition, there are many more children that came to be in the care of gay men by various other means. We don’t know for sure how many but I’ve seen estimates of up to 14 million. Those children benefit when the state allows second parent adoption by the biological parents partner.

Given these numbers, I think that we would be hearing a lot more about child sexual abuse at the hands of gays and I doubt that so many states would be allowing adoption. In my experience, banning marriage and adoption by gays only serves deprive children of the security of having two legal parents. I hope that I have answered your question.


Claims that gay parenting is harmful to children are bogus and stupid not to mention irresponsible.

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

and you dont think that conflicts a little bit with the idea that they are born that way?......I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals.

But it WAS an aside........and isnt essential to my arguments on gay marriage.

you cut and pasted a line that said someday the SC will legalize gay marriage.....showing you dont really put much thought into your answers.

Not “essential” to your argument on gay marriage? What argument is that now? You have presented no coherent argument what so ever. How the **** does “parental instincts” conflict with the idea of “being born” that way??!! The idea that being gay is not a choice? ?..You also said...”.I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals” Really? You think?? If there is any truth at all to that, what does it mean? Are the voices in your head telling you that they would say that and that it has something to do with parental instincts?

As far as this “instinct” goes, it is quite possibly the stupidest and most hateful thing that has been said here ever. You still need to explain yourself or retract it. You say that you meant it as an “aside” ? You can’t make it go away that easily. It goes to the heart of you credibility, or more accurately, to the lack there of. It speaks clearly to the low level of intellect that we are dealing with here. Furthermore, it is indicative of the desperation that you are experiencing, the need to come up with increasingly ridiculous angles in your pathetically failed war on same sex marriage. I am not going to let it go until I get an answer. It will come back to haunt you with every new post.

As far as my copy and paste goes…yes I , I copied something that I wrote before Obergefell that I did in fact put a lot of thought into, and that still has much relevance. My mistake was that I didn’t fully update it. That is hardly equivalent to your crimes and displays of ignorance. Have a nice day.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Staver: Gay Marriage Is Leading America 'Into The Very Pit Of Hell'

Back in July, Liberty Counsel's Mat Staver spoke at the Reclaiming America for Christ conference in Oklahoma where he spent a half-hour absolutely fuming about the Supreme Court's gay marriage ruling, calling it a "grave sin" that would lead America "into the very pit of Hell." Staver, who has recently been leading Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis' unsuccessful legal battle, was beside himself with outrage, declaring that neither the Supreme Court nor any state could ever legalize gay marriage because doing so contradicts the will of God and therefore Christians have no choice but to resist with all their might. "We need to stop playing charades," Staver thundered, "thinking that five individuals can re-write God's natural, created order of marriage as a union of a man and a woman, and 320 million Americans are simply just going to follow them like the Pied Piper off the cliff into the very pit of Hell. If that's what they think, they have something else coming because as for me and my household, I will not obey those five! I will obey God rather than man and they have shaken their fist in the face of the Creator and we must resist that." The ruling, he warned, "is a grave sin. There will be judgment on those five unless they repent." - See more at: Staver: Gay Marriage Is Leading America 'Into The Very Pit Of Hell'

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Well, in Staver's defense, the Supreme Legislature did set the US up for total cultural collapse.

So, he's got that fact on his side.

Understand scamp... a sustainable culture is not possible where it allows itself to be governed through unsustainable policy. LOL! Such is, quite impossible.

 

[Skylar]

Well, in Staver's defense, the Supreme Legislature did set the US up for total cultural collapse.

So, he's got that fact on his side.

And by 'facts', you mean whatever nonsense you make up. Remember, societies that embrace gays invariably collapse and societies that DON'T embrace gays invariably collapse. When your 'effect' exists regardless of your cause, your cause isn't.

This is basic causation. But it still confounds both you and Staver.

Understand scamp... a sustainable culture is not possible where it allows itself to be governed through unsustainable policy. LOL! Such is, quite impossible.

Remember, sport.....your imagination doesn't define 'sustainable'. Nor can you make a logic or rational argument against same sex marriage in terms of sustainability.

Folks are still having kids. People are still getting married. And if the strength of your marriage is based on your ability to deny marriage to someone else....well, you were fucked long before Obergefell came along.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Well, in Staver's defense, the Supreme Legislature did set the US up for total cultural collapse.

So, he's got that fact on his side.

Understand scamp... a sustainable culture is not possible where it allows itself to be governed through unsustainable policy. LOL! Such is, quite impossible.

So tell us old sport....seriously now. What will we look like as a country in 10-20-0 years as a result of same sex marriage? What changes can we suspect? What ills will befall us? . Explain using facts and logic how the things that you predict will come about. Please use bullet points. This is a serious question. No horseshit now. I'm interested in exactly what you and others like you think will happen and why.

 

[dcraelin]

Let us hope this is indeed your final word

"If children who are in the care of gay people are at risk of abuse or having developmental/ adjustment issues why have the states been allowing this for so long?" ----People with their busy lives generally dont pay attention to a lot of government policy. My suspicion is that if the populations of most of these states had known this they would have disapproved.

"If mistreatment of children by gays was prevalent, why are we not hearing horror stories and seeing headlines about this on a regular basis ?" ---as you pointed out there arent a large amount of couples doing this regardless...and it isnt that we are necessarily thinking of the kind of mistreatment that gets headlines, or mistreatment at all really.

"Why have we not been seeing large numbers of adults who had been children of gays coming forward to speak out against gay parenting?"----there are even less of these folks out there---and there was at least one I remember hearing about during the debate who did oppose gay marriage....even so, not many people come out and attack those that raised them despite what they may think of their deficiencies.

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

and you dont think that conflicts a little bit with the idea that they are born that way?......I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals.

But it WAS an aside........and isnt essential to my arguments on gay marriage.

you cut and pasted a line that said someday the SC will legalize gay marriage.....showing you dont really put much thought into your answers.

Not “essential” to your argument on gay marriage? What argument is that now? You have presented no coherent argument what so ever. How the **** does “parental instincts” conflict with the idea of “being born” that way??!! The idea that being gay is not a choice? ?..You also said...”.I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals” Really? You think?? If there is any truth at all to that, what does it mean? Are the voices in your head telling you that they would say that and that it has something to do with parental instincts?

As far as this “instinct” goes, it is quite possibly the stupidest and most hateful thing that has been said here ever. You still need to explain yourself or retract it. You say that you meant it as an “aside” ? You can’t make it go away that easily. It goes to the heart of you credibility, or more accurately, to the lack there of. It speaks clearly to the low level of intellect that we are dealing with here. Furthermore, it is indicative of the desperation that you are experiencing, the need to come up with increasingly ridiculous angles in your pathetically failed war on same sex marriage. I am not going to let it go until I get an answer. It will come back to haunt you with every new post.

As far as my copy and paste goes…yes I , I copied something that I wrote before Obergefell that I did in fact put a lot of thought into, and that still has much relevance. My mistake was that I didn’t fully update it. That is hardly equivalent to your crimes and displays of ignorance. Have a nice day.

My are you dense.....we argued for many posts on the lack of a legal basis for gay marriage...and now you ask What argument is that now?........I dont think any of my arguments rested on whether gayness is innate or learned...your arguments, basing them as you do on "rights", could be said to depend on that idea however. I believe you first brought up parental instinct, instinct goes to that same debate.

why is referring to that hateful?.....whenever you have no argument...you race for the bigot card.

 

[Camp]

Have they sent that nut job religious zealot back to jail yet?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Oh Christ are you back with more rationalizations and assorted horseshit. Hey, you're the one who said that gay people-if they are "really" as in born that way don't actually have parental instincts. That in itself says all that we need to know about your credibility and level of intellectual functioning. Especially after you went into hiding after I called you on it. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute?

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

and you dont think that conflicts a little bit with the idea that they are born that way?......I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals.

But it WAS an aside........and isnt essential to my arguments on gay marriage.

you cut and pasted a line that said someday the SC will legalize gay marriage.....showing you dont really put much thought into your answers.

Not “essential” to your argument on gay marriage? What argument is that now? You have presented no coherent argument what so ever. How the **** does “parental instincts” conflict with the idea of “being born” that way??!! The idea that being gay is not a choice? ?..You also said...”.I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals” Really? You think?? If there is any truth at all to that, what does it mean? Are the voices in your head telling you that they would say that and that it has something to do with parental instincts?

As far as this “instinct” goes, it is quite possibly the stupidest and most hateful thing that has been said here ever. You still need to explain yourself or retract it. You say that you meant it as an “aside” ? You can’t make it go away that easily. It goes to the heart of you credibility, or more accurately, to the lack there of. It speaks clearly to the low level of intellect that we are dealing with here. Furthermore, it is indicative of the desperation that you are experiencing, the need to come up with increasingly ridiculous angles in your pathetically failed war on same sex marriage. I am not going to let it go until I get an answer. It will come back to haunt you with every new post.

As far as my copy and paste goes…yes I , I copied something that I wrote before Obergefell that I did in fact put a lot of thought into, and that still has much relevance. My mistake was that I didn’t fully update it. That is hardly equivalent to your crimes and displays of ignorance. Have a nice day.

My are you dense.....we argued for many posts on the lack of a legal basis for gay marriage...and now you ask What argument is that now?........I dont think any of my arguments rested on whether gayness is innate or learned...your arguments, basing them as you do on "rights", could be said to depend on that idea however. I believe you first brought up parental instinct, instinct goes to that same debate.

why is referring to that hateful?.....whenever you have no argument...you race for the bigot card.

YOU first brought up the issue of procreative urges....see post 1850. You are implying that gays do not wish to procreate.

May men and women follow their procreative urges wherever they take them? Who is
responsible for the children that result? How many mates may an individual have? How does
one decide which set of mates is responsible for which set of children?

To which I responded:

Do gay man and lesbians not have “procreative urges”? Do they not desire to be parents and to have the opportunity to nurture and raise children? Is parental responsibility no also an issue among heterosexual individuals and couples? Judge, are you alluding to the well-worn and bigoted view that only heterosexual couples need to get married because they are the only ones who have children “spontaneously” ? Are heterosexuals the only people who encounter custody and parental rights issues-that –by the way-are often exacerbated by not being married.

After which, you persisted in questioning whether or not people who are "really gay" want children. Now you seem to be suffering from amnesia and running away from you asinine statements. I told you...I'm not letting go. You have to own those statements. And they are indeed hateful and bigoted because it is painting gay people as less than human.

As far as your "arguments go.....I'm talking about something that makes sense. Something that is based on facts and logic, which you have no command of at all.

 

[dcraelin]

no I just said the fact that some claim to have parental instincts tends to negate or counter the idea that they are "born that way".

I quit responding to you after I answered 2 of your posts point for point and you responded with a cut and paste insult. (and some of your other posts were obvious cut and pastes from earlier arguments)

Holly Shit! You are reduced to just repeating the same moronic claim that you made before without any attempt to explain or defend it! My god that is pathetic!! Gay people are fully functioning HUMAN BEINGS and they have all of the instincts and physical abilities that are necessary to produce and raise a child as anybody else. What the hell is wrong with you? Is you best argument that I copy and past certain things? So what? If something needs to be said again, I will do so. If there is a source that makes my point I will use it and re-use it.

Oh, and what the **** does any of that have to do with same sex marriage and this religious freedom horseshit? It seems like all that you can do is to throw as much dung at the wall and hope that something sticks. Nothing is sticking except the egg on your face.

You are a bad joke without a punch line.

and you dont think that conflicts a little bit with the idea that they are born that way?......I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals.

But it WAS an aside........and isnt essential to my arguments on gay marriage.

you cut and pasted a line that said someday the SC will legalize gay marriage.....showing you dont really put much thought into your answers.

Not “essential” to your argument on gay marriage? What argument is that now? You have presented no coherent argument what so ever. How the **** does “parental instincts” conflict with the idea of “being born” that way??!! The idea that being gay is not a choice? ?..You also said...”.I think most of gays themselves would say they DONT have the same instincts as heterosexuals” Really? You think?? If there is any truth at all to that, what does it mean? Are the voices in your head telling you that they would say that and that it has something to do with parental instincts?

As far as this “instinct” goes, it is quite possibly the stupidest and most hateful thing that has been said here ever. You still need to explain yourself or retract it. You say that you meant it as an “aside” ? You can’t make it go away that easily. It goes to the heart of you credibility, or more accurately, to the lack there of. It speaks clearly to the low level of intellect that we are dealing with here. Furthermore, it is indicative of the desperation that you are experiencing, the need to come up with increasingly ridiculous angles in your pathetically failed war on same sex marriage. I am not going to let it go until I get an answer. It will come back to haunt you with every new post.

As far as my copy and paste goes…yes I , I copied something that I wrote before Obergefell that I did in fact put a lot of thought into, and that still has much relevance. My mistake was that I didn’t fully update it. That is hardly equivalent to your crimes and displays of ignorance. Have a nice day.

My are you dense.....we argued for many posts on the lack of a legal basis for gay marriage...and now you ask What argument is that now?........I dont think any of my arguments rested on whether gayness is innate or learned...your arguments, basing them as you do on "rights", could be said to depend on that idea however. I believe you first brought up parental instinct, instinct goes to that same debate.

why is referring to that hateful?.....whenever you have no argument...you race for the bigot card.

YOU first brought up the issue of procreative urges....see post 1850. You are implying that gays do not wish to procreate.

May men and women follow their procreative urges wherever they take them? Who is
responsible for the children that result? How many mates may an individual have? How does
one decide which set of mates is responsible for which set of children?

To which I responded:

Do gay man and lesbians not have “procreative urges”? Do they not desire to be parents and to have the opportunity to nurture and raise children? Is parental responsibility no also an issue among heterosexual individuals and couples? Judge, are you alluding to the well-worn and bigoted view that only heterosexual couples need to get married because they are the only ones who have children “spontaneously” ? Are heterosexuals the only people who encounter custody and parental rights issues-that –by the way-are often exacerbated by not being married.

After which, you persisted in questioning whether or not people who are "really gay" want children. Now you seem to be suffering from amnesia and running away from you asinine statements. I told you...I'm not letting go. You have to own those statements. And they are indeed hateful and bigoted because it is painting gay people as less than human.

As far as your "arguments go.....I'm talking about something that makes sense. Something that is based on facts and logic, which you have no command of at all.

you ******* liar......that is NOT my post

not that whoever said it was wrong

I'm done with you

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

DCRAELIN SAID:

"we argued for many posts on the lack of a legal basis for gay marriage"

And you lost, as there is in fact a legal basis to invalidate measures seeking to deny same-sex couples access to marriage law, where those measures clearly violate the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the 14th Amendment. (See Obergefell v. Hodges (2015))