Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[M14 Shooter]

Things can be done. Enforce current laws if you catch a felon with a firearm. Create a system where mentally deficient people are adjudicated and prevented from owning firearms. Increase penalties for committing crimes with a firearm. Allow people who have CCW's to carry their weapons except in controlled perimeter locations.

All of these can be done without infringing on my right to own a firearm, and would actually do something to reduce gun violence.

gun violence gawd-a-mighty how i do hate that term
i have never seen a violent gun in all my 60+ years of owning one, could you provide a photo of a violent gun just so i can avoid one if one comes my way

All guns are violent. They're made to kill. That's their only purpose.

More proof of my pont. Thank you.

 

[M14 Shooter]

All guns are violent. They're made to kill. That's their only purpose. Geez, what a noob. No wonder there are so many gun deaths in the US, with duffusses like you.

Thier purpose is to propel a projectile via chemical explosive combustion. The person is who decides what the purpose of the projectile is.

And given the number of gun deaths in the US every year, people are proving not to be trustworthy with guns.

>300,000,000 guns.
<32,000 gun deaths per year
~1 gun in every 9400 kills someone - and that, to you, is proof that people are not trustworthy with guns.



Thank you for futher provng my point.

 

[Geaux4it]

Simple solution, buy all the guns you can. Kill more bad guys than they do good guys

Simple math

-Geaux

 

[jon_berzerk]

David Gregory got away with it

special treatment for the party members

not so much for the ordinary citizens

Mark Witaschek, a successful financial adviser with no criminal record, is facing two years in prison for possession of unregistered ammunition after D.C. police raided his house looking for guns. Mr. Witaschek has never had a firearm in the city, but he is being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The trial starts on Nov. 4.

The police banged on the front door of Mr. Witaschek&#8217;s Georgetown home at 8:20 p.m. on July 7, 2012, to execute a search warrant for &#8220;firearms and ammunition &#8230; gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts.&#8221;

Mr. Witaschek&#8217;s 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers in full tactical gear.


D.C. law requires residents to register every firearm with the police, and only registered gun owners can possess ammunition, which includes spent shells and casings. The maximum penalty for violating these laws is a $1,000 fine and a year in jail.

Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek&#8217;s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit.

After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs, pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.

In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four children in the house.

His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. &#8220;They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,&#8221; said his father. &#8220;The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.&#8221;

MILLER: D.C. businessman faces two years in jail for unregistered ammunition, brass casing - Washington Times

 

[MonaGonna]

Thier purpose is to propel a projectile via chemical explosive combustion. The person is who decides what the purpose of the projectile is.

And given the number of gun deaths in the US every year, people are proving not to be trustworthy with guns.

>300,000,000 guns.
<32,000 gun deaths per year
~1 gun in every 9400 kills someone - and that, to you, is proof that people are not trustworthy with guns.



Thank you for futher provng my point.

So I guess that you laugh at little kids who shoot themselves or their friends/siblings. Or at mass school shootings. Is 9,000+ gun deaths a year an acceptable number for you?

 

[JoeB131]

Thier purpose is to propel a projectile via chemical explosive combustion. The person is who decides what the purpose of the projectile is.

And given the number of gun deaths in the US every year, people are proving not to be trustworthy with guns.

Of the rounds fired through guns every year, how many result in death or injury? I have a feeling is a very small percentage, on the order of 10 or so zeros after the decimal point, followed by a 1.

JoeB is this you?

Again, isn't that kind of like saying, "only 4 planes out of hundreds of thousands in the air were flown into buildings, we really dont need to be worried about hijacking?"

 

[JoeB131]

Simple solution, buy all the guns you can. Kill more bad guys than they do good guys

Simple math

-Geaux

Since most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents, the good guys are doing a pretty good job of killing them themselves off.

 

[martybegan]

And given the number of gun deaths in the US every year, people are proving not to be trustworthy with guns.

Of the rounds fired through guns every year, how many result in death or injury? I have a feeling is a very small percentage, on the order of 10 or so zeros after the decimal point, followed by a 1.

JoeB is this you?

Again, isn't that kind of like saying, "only 4 planes out of hundreds of thousands in the air were flown into buildings, we really dont need to be worried about hijacking?"

Do we go around talking about banning planes for everyone except governmental agents?

 

[martybegan]

David Gregory got away with it

special treatment for the party members

not so much for the ordinary citizens

Mark Witaschek, a successful financial adviser with no criminal record, is facing two years in prison for possession of unregistered ammunition after D.C. police raided his house looking for guns. Mr. Witaschek has never had a firearm in the city, but he is being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The trial starts on Nov. 4.

The police banged on the front door of Mr. Witaschek’s Georgetown home at 8:20 p.m. on July 7, 2012, to execute a search warrant for “firearms and ammunition … gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts.”

Mr. Witaschek’s 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers in full tactical gear.


D.C. law requires residents to register every firearm with the police, and only registered gun owners can possess ammunition, which includes spent shells and casings. The maximum penalty for violating these laws is a $1,000 fine and a year in jail.

Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit.

After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs, pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.

In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four children in the house.

His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”

MILLER: D.C. businessman faces two years in jail for unregistered ammunition, brass casing - Washington Times

And THIS is why we do not trust gun control people. Its not about crime, its about government power and abuse.

The police chief should be sued, the officers should be sued, and everyone needs to be fired. The police are not our lords and masters, they are civil servants who have obviously forgotten both the civil and the servant parts.

 

[jon_berzerk]

David Gregory got away with it

special treatment for the party members

not so much for the ordinary citizens

Mark Witaschek, a successful financial adviser with no criminal record, is facing two years in prison for possession of unregistered ammunition after D.C. police raided his house looking for guns. Mr. Witaschek has never had a firearm in the city, but he is being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The trial starts on Nov. 4.

The police banged on the front door of Mr. Witaschek’s Georgetown home at 8:20 p.m. on July 7, 2012, to execute a search warrant for “firearms and ammunition … gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts.”

Mr. Witaschek’s 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers in full tactical gear.


D.C. law requires residents to register every firearm with the police, and only registered gun owners can possess ammunition, which includes spent shells and casings. The maximum penalty for violating these laws is a $1,000 fine and a year in jail.

Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit.

After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs, pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.

In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four children in the house.

His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”

MILLER: D.C. businessman faces two years in jail for unregistered ammunition, brass casing - Washington Times

And THIS is why we do not trust gun control people. Its not about crime, its about government power and abuse.

The police chief should be sued, the officers should be sued, and everyone needs to be fired. The police are not our lords and masters, they are civil servants who have obviously forgotten both the civil and the servant parts.

it is obvious that how tyrannical the government becomes

there are others who will willfully go along with it

 

[Wildman]

I think the theory here is that criminals will use up their bullets on the firing range, so by the time they get around to shooting someone they'll be out of bullets. And by the time the next year rolls around and they can finally get more bullets they won't want to kill them anymore.

Makes perfect sense to me...

The interesting part is that to Liberals the theory makes sense even more than it does to gun owners.
Legislation was suggested by Democrats that would limit the magazine size to 5-10 bullets off the range (varies with different state legislation proposals) ... But allow up to 15 bullets while on the range.

Simple logic examining these proposals leads one to believe that paper targets are a greater threat than someone breaking into your house ... Therefor you need more bullets to defend yourself at the range with all those other gun owners.
Records show that the local shooting range just ordered a box of 1000 targets ... And we all know it takes about 5 shots to kill those things ... I hope we can find enough ammo to stave off the invasion.

.

some folks are confusing bullets with cartridges, i use bullets for reloading to make a complete cartridge, let's get the terminology correct. OK ?

 

[Edgetho]

projectiles?

 

[jon_berzerk]

I think the theory here is that criminals will use up their bullets on the firing range, so by the time they get around to shooting someone they'll be out of bullets. And by the time the next year rolls around and they can finally get more bullets they won't want to kill them anymore.

Makes perfect sense to me...

The interesting part is that to Liberals the theory makes sense even more than it does to gun owners.
Legislation was suggested by Democrats that would limit the magazine size to 5-10 bullets off the range (varies with different state legislation proposals) ... But allow up to 15 bullets while on the range.

Simple logic examining these proposals leads one to believe that paper targets are a greater threat than someone breaking into your house ... Therefor you need more bullets to defend yourself at the range with all those other gun owners.
Records show that the local shooting range just ordered a box of 1000 targets ... And we all know it takes about 5 shots to kill those things ... I hope we can find enough ammo to stave off the invasion.

.

some folks are confusing bullets with cartridges, i use bullets for reloading to make a complete cartridge, let's get the terminology correct. OK ?

out here no matter what the feds try and pass on more restrictive gun control

we passed state laws trumping the feds

as long as take for example magazines

made in the state and remain in the state

silencers too

as well as firearms made in the state

all stamped made in South Dakota

 

[kaz]

Simple solution, buy all the guns you can. Kill more bad guys than they do good guys

Simple math

-Geaux

Since most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents, the good guys are doing a pretty good job of killing them themselves off.

Most are suicides, so since you included that you can include whatever else you want for the implication you want. As you did.

Suicides are irrelevant to the discussion. They are not an argument for your side that it keeps guns from criminals, they are not an argument for our side that it protects people from criminals. Not having a gun is zero barrier to anyone killing themself. Focus on the relevant discussion.

Edit:

Suicide rates:

USA - 12 per 100K
UK - 11.8 per 100K

Owned

 

[MonaGonna]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

I believe the HIPAA laws needs to be looked at. I think a doctor should be able to release information about a person with a history of mental illness, with the blessings of the court of course. Then that person would show up on a background check when trying to purchase a firearm. This will not stop the mentally disturbed from obtaining firearms but it will help.

As for the school shooting, you need to get rid of the "no gun zone" and allow teachers and parents on campus to carry guns as long as the states concealed carry laws are met.

It is naïve to think that all gun deaths can be prevented. They can't, but to quote Thomas Jefferson, "an armed society is a polite society".


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776,

 

[Bern80]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

That was me. And weirdo guns? That's nonsensical. How can an inanimate object be 'weirdo'? Your position is just wholly illogical and disproportionate. A kid shoots up his class mates. Your solution is ignore what the kid did and focus on what he used to express his anger. Your solution is take that object away from millions of people that aren't a threat to anyone as a means of preventing this singular event in the future. Again that's just nonsensical. It would be much more efficient to recognize that certain people are a danger to themselves and society. Better yet, shouldn't we be trying to help these people. Can't you imagine the pain and confusion someone must feel to resort to shooting up their classmates and themselves? And you just want to ignore that?

 

[MonaGonna]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

That was me. And weirdo guns? That's nonsensical. How can an inanimate object be 'weirdo'? Your position is just wholly illogical and disproportionate. A kid shoots up his class mates. Your solution is ignore what the kid did and focus on what he used to express his anger. Your solution is take that object away from millions of people that aren't a threat to anyone as a means of preventing this singular event in the future. Again that's just nonsensical. It would be much more efficient to recognize that certain people are a danger to themselves and society. Better yet, shouldn't we be trying to help these people. Can't you imagine the pain and confusion someone must feel to resort to shooting up their classmates and themselves? And you just want to ignore that?

It's very rare that shit like that happens in countries where guns are strictly controlled. In the US, it happens all the time. What's so hard to understand?

 

[MonaGonna]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

I believe the HIPAA laws needs to be looked at. I think a doctor should be able to release information about a person with a history of mental illness, with the blessings of the court of course. Then that person would show up on a background check when trying to purchase a firearm. This will not stop the mentally disturbed from obtaining firearms but it will help.

As for the school shooting, you need to get rid of the "no gun zone" and allow teachers and parents on campus to carry guns as long as the states concealed carry laws are met.

It is naïve to think that all gun deaths can be prevented. They can't, but to quote Thomas Jefferson, "an armed society is a polite society".


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776,

You have any relevant quotes that aren't from 200 years ago? Geez, In 1776, people may have needed to be armed at all times, but today? No. Well, now that you have 300,000,000 weapons out there, maybe, but you have to start somewhere... I don't advocate taking law abiding citizens' weapons away from them, that's not what the op is about, but making it harder for everyone to buy guns is the only way forward.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

kaz, so what's your plan again to help stop people from shooting up a school with assault weapons? It must have been so good I forgot what it is. Were you the one who wanted to put more emphasis on mental health treatment then on trying to keep weirdo guns away from people?

I believe the HIPAA laws needs to be looked at. I think a doctor should be able to release information about a person with a history of mental illness, with the blessings of the court of course. Then that person would show up on a background check when trying to purchase a firearm. This will not stop the mentally disturbed from obtaining firearms but it will help.

As for the school shooting, you need to get rid of the "no gun zone" and allow teachers and parents on campus to carry guns as long as the states concealed carry laws are met.

It is naïve to think that all gun deaths can be prevented. They can't, but to quote Thomas Jefferson, "an armed society is a polite society".


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776,

You have any relevant quotes that aren't from 200 years ago? Geez, In 1776, people may have needed to be armed at all times, but today? No. Well, now that you have 300,000,000 weapons out there, maybe, but you have to start somewhere... I don't advocate taking law abiding citizens' weapons away from them, that's not what the op is about, but making it harder for everyone to buy guns is the only way forward.

The quotes are still applicable today.

You're missing the point (which is typical for you liberal idiots) you can make a thousand laws making it harder to buy guns, the only people it will affect is law-abiding citizens, criminals by definition DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW.

The laws currently on the books are not adequate in the sense that it doesn't look at the mental health history of the purchaser, this could be changed by re-writing the HIPAA law and allowing for a person with a history of mental illness to be included in those that cannot legally buy a firearm. Other than that, the background checks are quite adequate.