Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[KissMy]

This statement: The point you didn't address though is who decides if a militia is "well regulated."

So, what did “well-regulated” mean circa 1787?

It meant, simply, well-trained and equipped.

The entire U.S. population cannot — cannot — be a well regulated militia. “well-regulated” is stated BEFORE "right of the People" means properly functioning mind that is well trained. That does not include emotionally unstable people, mentally ill, illegal aliens, criminals, the untrained, etc.

There will never be enough police to protect us or keep guns out of the hands of unfit people. Government needs to publish a list of mentally ill, illegal aliens, criminals, emotionally unstable people & the untrained so average citizens can read to find if people they see with guns are on there, just like they can look at a registered sex offender list.

The problem is who sets the standard for mentally ill and unstable? Many on the left aren't willing to call someone here that shouldn't be here illegal. They're referred to as undocumented and those same people don't consider what they did as a crime.

This is not a problem. Congress just needs to grow some balls & set the standards for the list. Or we could have a list of people who qualify to own or carry a gun, as long as it does no state if we actually own any, how many.

Yes, congress "sets the standard," but again, that standard has to be proven in court to remove someone's Constitutional rights, any of them

Sorry, but “well-regulated” doesn't mean you have a right until it's removed by a court!

There is absolutely no way "a well regulated militia" means emotionally unstable people, mentally ill, illegal aliens, criminals, the untrained get guns unless a court says they can't. The entire U.S. population cannot — cannot — be a well regulated militia.

"A well regulated Militia” means well functioning mind, well trained, well functioning controlled unit. “well-regulated” can also means you must earn the right!

If your parent or a neighbor tells the FBI that you are a terrorist & they put you on a no fly list & terror watch list, “well-regulated” regulations can definitely take away your guns, drivers license & vehicles.

“well-regulated” is stated BEFORE "right of the People" ... “A well-regulated” are the first & most important words of the second amendment. They are the heart that all the other words of the second amendment center around.

 

[Windship]

What if there was a war and only one side had guns? Who would win? The criminal would.

 

[KissMy]

What if there was a war and only one side had guns? Who would win? The criminal would.

That's why I don't care to much for tight regulation that force you to earn the rights, pay fees, carry insurance & permits. We don't need to turn good CCW people into criminals because their papers weren't in order.

There should only be restrictions placed on people on terror list, no-fly list, criminals, emotionally unstable, mental defectives, etc.

Come January 1, 2017 here in Missouri we can carry a concealed firearm for self-defense without a permit from the government. I love that. I just want a online list of people to watch out for.

 

[owebo]

What if there was a war and only one side had guns? Who would win? The criminal would.

That's why I don't care to much for tight regulation that force you to earn the rights, pay fees, carry insurance & permits. We don't need to turn good CCW people into criminals because their papers weren't in order.

There should only be restrictions placed on people on terror list, no-fly list, criminals, emotionally unstable, mental defectives, etc.

Come January 1, 2017 here in Missouri we can carry a concealed firearm for self-defense without a permit from the government. I love that. I just want a online list of people to watch out for.

So you don't want democrats to have guns....I like that idea.....

 

[Norman]

Criminals need to be armed so that they can defend themselves against the misogynist cops.

 

[KissMy]

What if there was a war and only one side had guns? Who would win? The criminal would.

That's why I don't care to much for tight regulation that force you to earn the rights, pay fees, carry insurance & permits. We don't need to turn good CCW people into criminals because their papers weren't in order.

There should only be restrictions placed on people on terror list, no-fly list, criminals, emotionally unstable, mental defectives, etc.

Come January 1, 2017 here in Missouri we can carry a concealed firearm for self-defense without a permit from the government. I love that. I just want a online list of people to watch out for.

So you don't want democrats to have guns....I like that idea.....

No! - I don't want unstable people to have guns. They will kill you before an armed robber will.

Just last week my best friend was highway robbed at gunpoint by an armed robber. He even took a swing at the robber with the gun before eventually handing over $100. He did not get shot.

 

[kaz]

Sorry, but “well-regulated” doesn't mean you have a right until it's removed by a court!

Well, only if you believe in silly things like the fifth amendment where your rights can only be deprived with due process of law

There is absolutely no way "a well regulated militia" means emotionally unstable people, mentally ill, illegal aliens, criminals, the untrained get guns unless a court says they can't. The entire U.S. population cannot — cannot — be a well regulated militia.

"A well regulated Militia” means well functioning mind, well trained, well functioning controlled unit.

That all is reasonable. So if that's the case, you should be able to provide due process and prove it in a court of law. If it's your opinion, that's not good enough

“well-regulated” can also means you must earn the right!

What the fuck? So they put in the Constitution that you have that right. Well, if you earn it. Government can't infringe on your right to arms, they just have to give it to you if you "earn it." Think about that

If your parent or a neighbor tells the FBI that you are a terrorist & they put you on a no fly list & terror watch list, “well-regulated” regulations can definitely take away your guns, drivers license & vehicles.

Drivers licenses are not in the Constitution. You have no "right" to drive on government roads. Your guns are protected by the 2nd and 5th amendments however and your vehicles by the 5th amendment

“well-regulated” is stated BEFORE "right of the People" ... “A well-regulated” are the first & most important words of the second amendment. They are the heart that all the other words of the second amendment center around.

Try reading the second amendment again:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Try overcoming your government education and reading it more carefully. Notice that "well regulated militia" is offered as an explanation, not a condition. It is saying because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State, your right to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed, it does not say if you have a well regulated militia, you right to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

And again , think about what you are saying. They put in the Bill of Right a "right" that can be granted or denied at the whim of government? You have no judicial protection for? Well, their neighbor said blah, so government took it away? No court? Well, you didn't "earn" it as deemed by government? Seriously, that's what you think?

The Bill of Rights says all powers not granted to the government are reserved by the States or the people. Speech, press, religion, due process, warrants. Oh, let's chuck in one we don't really mean though and make it #2. Yeah ...

 

[kaz]

The simple truth is gun laws operate to deprive mainly the law-abiding. Any criminal who wants a gun and is capable of paying the black market price can obtain one. Illegal guns move through the same channels as do illegal drugs.

Then explain why gun crime in Europe is far lower?

How is 98.8 times a citizen in US gets shot dead by the police than in the UK? Thats a hundred times.... 70 times if you're white...

There are a lot of differences between the US and Europe. To just conclude that it's gun laws is so completely and utterly shallow. It's so you. Why don't you answer my OP question?

 

[kaz]

The simple truth is gun laws operate to deprive mainly the law-abiding. Any criminal who wants a gun and is capable of paying the black market price can obtain one. Illegal guns move through the same channels as do illegal drugs.

The Statement, "The simple truth is gun laws operate to deprive mainly the law-abiding" is total BULLSHIT!

The statement, quoted above is made by fools, echoing other fools who echo the propaganda of the NRA.

No it isn't, wow, the intellectual horsepower to come up with that.

So all background checks do is have the gun seller say no, can't let you buy the gun. There is no consequence. So the criminals can go from shop to shop, seller to seller until they get a yes. So how is that not an infringement on anyone but law abiding citizens?

And you still have no answer to the OP question. Right now, drug dealers are streaming in drugs. What prevents them from putting guns in their drug shipments and selling those to criminals? You still oppose security on our southern border, you undercut your own argment

 

[kaz]

Q. How many mass killers have criminal records

Q. How many crimes for profit had been committed by guns?

How many of those crimes for profit were committed by legal guns? Mostly not. Again showing you're only infringing on the rights of honest citizens, and we want the guns to protect ourselves.

What a stupid plan. You see, it's a bad situation if you have a gun to protect yourself. I'm going to help you by taking away your gun so that only the criminal has one. You're welcome.

Gee, thanks

 

[kaz]

The simple truth is gun laws operate to deprive mainly the law-abiding. Any criminal who wants a gun and is capable of paying the black market price can obtain one. Illegal guns move through the same channels as do illegal drugs.

Then explain why gun crime in Europe is far lower?

How is 98.8 times a citizen in US gets shot dead by the police than in the UK? Thats a hundred times.... 70 times if you're white...

Because most of the police in the UK do not carry firearms.

I don't believe that's true anymore. And it's because so many more of the criminals are armed than they used to be.

We're following Europe in becoming socialist.

As their populations become more ethnically and culturally diverse, guns are becoming more widespread and gun violence is rising as well

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Come January 1, 2017 here in Missouri we can carry a concealed firearm for self-defense without a permit from the government. I love that.

[...]

I love that, too. Living in New Jersey, which has some of the most repressive gun laws in the U.S., I envy your new freedom. The question I have is will those who now intend to carry be required to have some minimal level of training. Because if not there surely will be problems.

I'm not talking about how to shoot but when to shoot.

 

[KissMy]

Sorry, but “well-regulated” doesn't mean you have a right until it's removed by a court!

Well, only if you believe in silly things like the fifth amendment where your rights can only be deprived with due process of law

There is absolutely no way "a well regulated militia" means emotionally unstable people, mentally ill, illegal aliens, criminals, the untrained get guns unless a court says they can't. The entire U.S. population cannot — cannot — be a well regulated militia.

"A well regulated Militia” means well functioning mind, well trained, well functioning controlled unit.

That all is reasonable. So if that's the case, you should be able to provide due process and prove it in a court of law. If it's your opinion, that's not good enough

“well-regulated” can also means you must earn the right!

What the fuck? So they put in the Constitution that you have that right. Well, if you earn it. Government can't infringe on your right to arms, they just have to give it to you if you "earn it." Think about that

If your parent or a neighbor tells the FBI that you are a terrorist & they put you on a no fly list & terror watch list, “well-regulated” regulations can definitely take away your guns, drivers license & vehicles.

Drivers licenses are not in the Constitution. You have no "right" to drive on government roads. Your guns are protected by the 2nd and 5th amendments however and your vehicles by the 5th amendment

“well-regulated” is stated BEFORE "right of the People" ... “A well-regulated” are the first & most important words of the second amendment. They are the heart that all the other words of the second amendment center around.

Try reading the second amendment again:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Try overcoming your government education and reading it more carefully. Notice that "well regulated militia" is offered as an explanation, not a condition. It is saying because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State, your right to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed, it does not say if you have a well regulated militia, you right to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

And again , think about what you are saying. They put in the Bill of Right a "right" that can be granted or denied at the whim of government? You have no judicial protection for? Well, their neighbor said blah, so government took it away? No court? Well, you didn't "earn" it as deemed by government? Seriously, that's what you think?

The Bill of Rights says all powers not granted to the government are reserved by the States or the people. Speech, press, religion, due process, warrants. Oh, let's chuck in one we don't really mean though and make it #2. Yeah ...

Armed crazies & criminals are also infringing on my rights & freedoms. I have been held at gunpoint & nearly shot 6 times. My Best friend has had the same 3 times. These criminals need to be stopped. It can't be done by being armed alone, In every instance the criminal had the drop on us before we knew what was happening. Being armed would not have prevented any of them. I may have been able to do something afterwards with a gun, but that also may not have gone well. Background checks prevented 152,850 crazies & criminals from buying a gun in 2010 alone. The real problem is few of those are arrested & prosecuted.

If a few neighbors, friends & family are not honest when reporting someone causing them to lose their gun rights, they can remedy it with investigating, testing or courts. To many mass killers were known to be wacko, prior to committing murders, but nothing could be done, because we protected their rights more strongly than those lives that were taken.

There will never be enough police to stop criminals. The people must have easy access to the list of crazies to keep an eye on them, so they can't infringe on my life, liberty, property, freedom & pursuit of happiness. We already publish list of sex offenders. It's high time to do the same for Terrorist, Crazies & Criminals.

 

[KissMy]

[...]

Come January 1, 2017 here in Missouri we can carry a concealed firearm for self-defense without a permit from the government. I love that.

[...]

I love that, too. Living in New Jersey, which has some of the most repressive gun laws in the U.S., I envy your new freedom. The question I have is will those who now intend to carry be required to have some minimal level of training. Because if not there surely will be problems.

I'm not talking about how to shoot but when to shoot.

It seems there will not be any required training. It was like that here in Missouri rural area where I grew up back before Brady bill & all the new laws. It seemed like shootings per capita were high out there. I was nearly shot & held at gunpoint 3 times back then. I Mostly live in St. Louis now but it still happens here with current laws, but the per capita rate is now less.

 

[MikeK]

Armed crazies & criminals are also infringing on my rights & freedoms. I have been held at gunpoint & nearly shot 6 times. My Best friend has had the same 3 times.

[...]

Yours is an exceptional situation so you obviously need more than a gun.

Since you obviously live in a lawless region what is needed are armed citizen vigilante groups to conduct decoy operations and start killing those bastards off. But a major problem today rests with the police who can't eliminate the armed criminals but who won't hesitate to arrest armed citizens who "take the law into their own hands."

These criminals need to be stopped. It can't be done by being armed alone,

Not as individuals within the highly unusual situation you've described. You need to organize and train vigilante strike groups to put the fear of God into the gangs. But to do that you will need the quiet, unspoken cooperation of the police.

Background checks prevented 152,850 crazies & criminals from buying a gun in 2010 alone.

You don't know that every one of those 152,850 individuals whose background checks disqualified them are crazy or criminally inclined. But you may rest assured that a substantial percentage of those who are crazy or outlaws and who cannot obtain a gun legally will get what they want on the black market.

If a few neighbors, friends & family are not honest when reporting someone causing them to lose their gun rights, they can remedy it with investigating, testing or courts. To many mass killers were known to be wacko, prior to committing murders, but nothing could be done, because we protected their rights more strongly than those lives that were taken.

There will never be enough police to stop criminals. The people must have easy access to the list of crazies to keep an eye on them, so they can't infringe on my life, liberty, property, freedom & pursuit of happiness. We already publish list of sex offenders. It's high time to do the same for Terrorist, Crazies & Criminals.

If the currently repressive gun laws were never enacted the vast majority of violent criminals and dangerous crazies would have been eliminated by now. Repressive gun laws have protected the crazies and the criminals from decent, law-abiding, armed citizens.

Repressive gun laws accommodate the armed criminal element.

 

[KissMy]

Here a few miles from Ferguson MO is not a lawless region. We have to use all opportunities to stop armed thugs. To many are allowed to slip through the system with all these rights.

We try like hell here. Every one of those Ferguson riot thugs brought before the grand jury got indicted. We have to allow citizens tools like list to better monitor them & make it easier to take their gun rights even if only temporary.

 

[KissMy]

Stop & Frisk is useless if everyone has the right to carry.

 

[MikeK]

Here a few miles from Ferguson MO is not a lawless region. We have to use all opportunities to stop armed thugs. To many are allowed to slip through the system with all these rights.

We try like hell here. Every one of those Ferguson riot thugs brought before the grand jury got indicted. We have to allow citizens tools like list to better monitor them & make it easier to take their gun rights even if only temporary.

If you take away a determined criminals gun rights he will laugh in your face and buy an illegal gun. The only viable solution to the armed criminal problem in a democratic society is to increase the number of armed law-abiding citizens.

We Americans have been too damn conditioned to the notion that the police will protect us from everything, which we're beginning to see is not the case. We need to start protecting ourselves from the violence-prone "knockout" artists who are taking over our streets -- along with the coming plague of violence-prone Muslim refugees. And the way to do that is to do away with the repressive CCW laws. We need more armed law-abiding citizens on the streets, protecting themselves and others who are not as capable.

I need the cops to watch my house when I'm not home and things of that nature. As far as my presence on the streets, as long as I'm armed I am quite capable of protecting myself. I don't need cops for that. All I need is a 2" .357 revolver.

 

[KissMy]

You have obviously never been shot at or held at gunpoint. It's nothing like TV.

 

[MikeK]

You have obviously never been shot at or held at gunpoint. It's nothing like TV.

Really?

What makes it so obvious to you?